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Hello and welcome! This here thread is a spoiler-free zone!

Things that are acceptable here:

  • Trailers and trailer speculation
  • Discussion of Star Wars movies and shows, and what we would like to see/not like to see in them.
  • Discussion about anything and everything Star Wars, just...no spoilers.

Things that are not-acceptable here:

  • Spoilers! No talking about the leaks!
  • Being mean! If you disagree with someone's opinion, try not to come across as mean or rude.

And here. we. go.

    Original text of OP 
Hello and welcome! This here thread is a spoiler-free zone! Because I didn't want to be tempted to read anymore spoilers for Rise of Skywalker!

Things that are acceptable here:

  • Trailers and trailer speculation
  • Discussion of the Star Wars movies and what we would like to see/not like to see in them.
  • Discussion about anything and everything Star Wars, just...no spoilers.

Things that are not-acceptable here:

  • Spoilers! No talking about the leaks!
  • Being mean! If you disagree with someone's opinion, try not to come across as mean or rude.

And here. we. go.

Rise of Skywalker Final Trailer:

Mr. Sunday's Ten Easy To Miss Details in Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Final Trailer Breakdown):

This cool mashup of Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker and Avengers: Endgame trailers:

And also here's a trailer for The Mandalorian:

Edited by Mrph1 on Aug 31st 2024 at 8:23:29 PM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#51026: Oct 28th 2025 at 2:02:36 AM

Checking his wookiepedia article, it sounds like he was a greedy businessman which means he still contributed to the Sith's overall cause since his fortune would eventually fund Plagueis and Palpatine.

I imagine canon would show him getting more and more greedy and ruthless towards expanding his business and it would culminate in him getting betrayed by his apprentice to continue the Rule of Two.

The Sith do love exploiting greedy capitalists, like Nute Gunray, so a Sith actually being an evil executive running his company through brainwashed employees and forcing them to labor non-stop sounds like a very punchable bad guy.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#51027: Oct 28th 2025 at 2:42:12 AM

I kind of picture Darth Vectivus as a Star Wars version of Hank Scorpio from The Simpsons. Hank Scorpio was a genuinely nice and affable guy who was a great boss for Homer...who also happened to be a ruthless and murderous supervillain threatening cities with a superweapon.

It's a reminder that "nice" and "good" aren't the same thing.

Edited by M84 on Oct 28th 2025 at 5:42:40 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#51028: Oct 28th 2025 at 2:50:39 AM

His ending of "He died surrounded by family and loved ones" sounds like bullshit though.

Like that's almost the exact fantasy that Palpatine sold Anakin on. That you could totally use the Dark Side for the sake of your loved ones. Well Anakin did use the Dark Side on Padme...

Edited by RedHunter543 on Oct 28th 2025 at 5:55:44 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#51029: Oct 28th 2025 at 2:57:15 AM

My bet is that Lumiya was using some Exact Words if not outright lying. Maybe he died surrounded by them because they were the ones who killed him. Either that or they discovered him while he lay dying after his Apprentice mortally wounded or poisoned him.

Edited by M84 on Oct 28th 2025 at 5:57:30 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#51030: Oct 28th 2025 at 4:10:36 AM

If it’s the first case, it would be so on brand that he tried getting his family in on the Dark Side business and that backfired immensely with his children or even wife, got greedy for more power.

Darth Bane warned you against sharing power with more than one apprentice.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Mara999 International Man of Mystery from Grim Up North Since: Sep, 2020 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
International Man of Mystery
#51031: Oct 28th 2025 at 8:34:45 AM

Thinking of real-world businesspeople through history, owners of pre-industrial ironworks, Gilded Age robber-barons, and so on, I have to conclude that their brand of exploiting and mistreating others in the name of "good business" and being "tough but fair" employers could be seen as very Sith-like. When hearing of a Sith who uses the Dark Side to run their business more efficiently, instead of being a cackling madman, my mind goes to Immortan Joe. That is what I think Darth Vectivus was like, once we peel away Lumiya's sanitized description.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#51032: Oct 28th 2025 at 9:54:06 AM

I am unreasonably amused at the idea of a random average joe becoming a Sith Lord and using it for incredibly mundane things, like running a plumbing company, like not even bothering to use it for evil, he just likes plumbing and just happens to know how to use the dark side but just focuses on his average job.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#51033: Oct 28th 2025 at 10:32:38 AM

A big reason for the disconnect I think is because back in the Legends days there wasn't really much separation between Light / Dark side and Jedi / Sith note .

If you were a light side force user, you were a Jedi even if you weren't one by any other metric. And if you were a dark side force user, you were a Sith, even if you obviously weren't a Sith.

Nowadays, I think a character who uses the dark side and is fairly evil, but uses it to mind their own business and is only focused on living well - if greedily - on their own, without actually being attached to all the "megalomaniac cultist" stuff that comes with being a Sith, would just be an independent dark sider or part of another dark side organization.

IIRC, we actually meet a guy like that in a Qui-Gon comic we got a few years ago.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 28th 2025 at 10:33:56 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#51034: Oct 28th 2025 at 10:35:58 AM

There are the Nightsisters.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#51035: Oct 28th 2025 at 10:41:55 AM

Yeah, but those are still "evil insane cultists." Same with the Legends versions of the Sorcerers of Tund (who aren't dark side any more in canon, iirc).

There wasn't really any slot for "dark sider who wasn't an insane power-hungry cultist and just wanted to live their own greedy life" especially one who wasn't intended to be a '90s Anti-Hero / Grey Jedi, so if a writer wanted to have one they just... ended up a Sith even though that doesn't really match what the Sith are about.

We have some halfway cases of that for Sith nowadays, but even so... like, Momin is just a guy who wanted to be the greatest artist in the world and became a Sith to pursue his vision to the greatest extent, but that vision is in itself what makes him so Sith-like because it was all about transcending the bounds of mortality and immortality through deadly art-pieces and freaky experiments. I think we once saw a Sith who was just a decadent aristocrat hedonist-ing it up in their own court, but even that was defined by torturously exacting control over others iirc.

Otherwise, tamer dark-side characters (however few there are) are usually just something other than Sith.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 28th 2025 at 10:51:20 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#51036: Oct 28th 2025 at 10:49:51 AM

I cited the sisters as examples of Dark Siders who are also insane and evil but not Sith.

Darth Momin also worships the Dark Side with a fervor most Sith don't have since he believes that by serving the Dark Side, it blesses him and gives him power.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Oct 29th 2025 at 1:50:50 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#51037: Oct 28th 2025 at 10:51:55 AM

Yeah, but those are still "evil insane cultists." Same with the Legends versions of the Sorcerers of Tund (who aren't dark side any more in canon, iirc).

I know. I then pointed out that that doesn't change the problem, which is that that's still not something a character like the one we're talking about would fit into, and that it still doesn't change the problem that Legends didn't really have a place for that sort of character.

Again, that's why they were always just defaulted into Sith back in the day. There wasn't really anywhere else for them.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 28th 2025 at 10:54:23 AM

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#51038: Oct 28th 2025 at 10:52:11 AM

A businessman Dark Sider would basically devolve into actual slave driving sooner or later. Cruelty has a way to becoming the point for them.

Wake me up at your own risk.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#51039: Oct 28th 2025 at 10:52:55 AM

Wonder how the Dark Side would twist a plumbing company.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Mara999 International Man of Mystery from Grim Up North Since: Sep, 2020 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
International Man of Mystery
#51040: Oct 28th 2025 at 11:11:38 AM

Ignoring the increasing trend in Legends for treating the Light and Dark Side as Not So Different, I find it very likely that Lumiya is describing things from A Certain Point of View, conveniently leaving out a lot of details about what a monster Darth Vectivus could also have been.

I haven't read the book, but the article on Wookiepedia quotes Lumiya as saying:

"He was a hardheaded business man with a keenly balanced sense of profit and fairness, and when temptation whispered in his ear he could ignore it as easily as he could ignore the importunings of equally destructive softheartedness."

There is a lot of room for evil intent and behaviour within those words. The reason I brought up Immortan Joe earlier is because the above quote might as well describe him, or Henry Ford, or a feudal baron who exploits his underling without more cruelty than necessary. A guy like Vectivus could spin a narrative where he convinces his employees (and himself) that he takes care of them, that he is the only one who isn't cheating them. Due to Values Dissonance he could then be seen as a "nice" Sith, even if his employees live in squalor and their kids keep dying early from the pollution caused by his mining operation.

Wonder how the Dark Side would twist a plumbing company.
By going hard on low-key evil to maximize profits. You will save so much money on tools and wages if you pick up orphans from the streets, as their hands are small enough to fit in tight spaces. Also, to save more money, make sure that there are enough orphans.

Edited by Mara999 on Oct 28th 2025 at 8:12:36 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#51041: Oct 28th 2025 at 6:42:14 PM

Any business can be twisted into pure evil in the pursuit of profits. A plumbing company could go with child / slave labor, union busting, ignoring sexual harassment at the workplace, bribing corrupt politicians to deregulate safety standards, using cheaper materials in the plumbing, corporate espionage to get rid of the competition...

Edited by M84 on Oct 28th 2025 at 9:44:09 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Freshwater Since: Apr, 2023
#51042: Oct 29th 2025 at 7:55:19 AM

Not to mention creepier tricks like using the more mental and empathic force powers to convince people to go against their own self interest (i.e. consider health care, guaranteed pay, or worker solidarity to be anathema), isolating employees from their families, take control of news sources so they don't report on things like strikes or work place abuse.

A dark side user could easily hide in a small plumbing business or a large corporation because especially in a good chunk of the outer rims people are conditioned to accept horror because of things like the Hutt Cartels.

Edited by Freshwater on Oct 29th 2025 at 7:58:23 AM

Mara999 International Man of Mystery from Grim Up North Since: Sep, 2020 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
International Man of Mystery
#51043: Oct 29th 2025 at 2:26:27 PM

Honestly, this scenario could even apply to the CEO of a large conglomerate on one of the Core Worlds, like Chandrila.

This made me think of Angel Heart, specifically its portrayal of wealthy devil-worshipers. It is left ambiguous how much their use of Dark Magic has actually affected their wealth, but one Fat, Sweaty Southerner in a White Suit says proudly: "The Prince of Darkness protects the powerful."

This in turn made me think of the Sith Eternal cult, how I think that Palpatine hoodwinked people who were already wealthy into wasting their resources on him, with a promise that they get even more wealth. I can picture the cultists doing all sorts of esoteric rituals in private, in a vain attempt to become Force-sensitive themselves. Now I want to see them be used as villains in the future, because I get the impression that they can be portrayed both as Hollywood Satanists and 80's Wall Street sharks, who are in deep denial of their own importance in the conspiracy.

Edited by Mara999 on Oct 29th 2025 at 11:37:22 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#51044: Oct 29th 2025 at 6:44:44 PM

The Sith Code sounds a lot like the shit a techbro billionaire would say to justify being a selfish and corrupt asshole.

Disgusted, but not surprised
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#51045: Oct 29th 2025 at 8:00:34 PM

So how would the Jedi run a plumbing business?

Or better yet, Silicon Valley? We need something to save us from tech bro supervillains.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Freshwater Since: Apr, 2023
#51046: Oct 29th 2025 at 8:11:29 PM

[up] The Jedi are all about finding passion in what they do while at the same time understanding themselves and their emotions. For a Jedi the act of creation itself has beauty.

I suspect that the Jedi would run a decent plumbing business in which each member is guaranteed a fair wage that pays for housing, food, and medical. There would probably be a pension system because the Jedi understand that age and change are a natural part of life so preparing for the transition where they can no longer work is normal. It's probably one of those places that offers their space out for community events.

For silicon valley, it would probably heavily deemphasize venture capital and bag holding schemes. For a Jedi, each product would have to have a clear vision and goal of how it helps people. Just saying "it's inevitable" would probably be looked on fairly poorly. Jedi also try to make stuff to last on principle and try to take pride in their work so planned obsolescence and no-repair policies would be out.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#51047: Oct 29th 2025 at 8:13:07 PM

The Jedi would run it as a co-op.

In general, the Jedi would prioritize providing reliable goods and services over simply pursuing better profit margins.

Edited by M84 on Oct 29th 2025 at 11:15:14 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#51048: Oct 29th 2025 at 8:23:39 PM

Having recently rewatched Frankenstein Unbound and Mary Shelly describing Victor's creation of the creature resulting in murders and the protagonist Joe Buchanan's creation of an energy weapon who's side effect is spontaneously creating time space rifts (which dropped him from 2031 to 1817) as "the madness of possibility", I'm also thinking Jedi inventors will think less of whether they could make something and more whether they should make something.

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#51049: Oct 29th 2025 at 8:29:56 PM

The Jedi would also be more conscious of potential environmental impact of anything they create. So no shit like crypto or generative AI, both of which burn a lot of power.

Edited by M84 on Oct 29th 2025 at 11:31:14 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#51050: Oct 29th 2025 at 8:37:12 PM

I'm not sure if a Jedi pre se would become a businessman...not because they're anti-business but because they're ascetics. But let's say one did:

Now, contrary to popular belief, there are and have been successful businessmen who were basically good people:

  • Gabe Newell, founder of Valve, also runs an oceanic research company, and recently foundered a brain-machine interface company IIRC.
  • Heinz, the ketchup guy, who also helped
  • The guys who founded Baskin-Robins were pretty nice people IIRC
  • Bill Gates to some extent.
  • Marc Benioff
  • Iwata
  • For a spiritual businessman, we have Phil Vischer.

A good fictional example of a businessman IMO would also be David Sarif from Deus Ex.

Generally, a Jedi-aligned businessman would be a person passionate about creating something, pays workers fairly, and makes good products.

Edited by Protagonist506 on Oct 29th 2025 at 8:40:12 AM

Leviticus 19:34

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