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Hello and welcome! This here thread is a spoiler-free zone!

Things that are acceptable here:

  • Trailers and trailer speculation
  • Discussion of Star Wars movies and shows, and what we would like to see/not like to see in them.
  • Discussion about anything and everything Star Wars, just...no spoilers.

Things that are not-acceptable here:

  • Spoilers! No talking about the leaks!
  • Being mean! If you disagree with someone's opinion, try not to come across as mean or rude.

And here. we. go.

    Original text of OP 
Hello and welcome! This here thread is a spoiler-free zone! Because I didn't want to be tempted to read anymore spoilers for Rise of Skywalker!

Things that are acceptable here:

  • Trailers and trailer speculation
  • Discussion of the Star Wars movies and what we would like to see/not like to see in them.
  • Discussion about anything and everything Star Wars, just...no spoilers.

Things that are not-acceptable here:

  • Spoilers! No talking about the leaks!
  • Being mean! If you disagree with someone's opinion, try not to come across as mean or rude.

And here. we. go.

Rise of Skywalker Final Trailer:

Mr. Sunday's Ten Easy To Miss Details in Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Final Trailer Breakdown):

This cool mashup of Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker and Avengers: Endgame trailers:

And also here's a trailer for The Mandalorian:

Edited by Mrph1 on Aug 31st 2024 at 8:23:29 PM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#50651: Oct 16th 2025 at 7:53:47 AM

Regarding the discussion about the timeframe of the Clone Wars, I think the 3 year gap was also to match when Revenge of the Sith was going to release.

IIRC, there was a tie in comic series to make it seem like the Clone Wars was playing out in real time.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
EmeraldSource Since: Jan, 2021
#50652: Oct 16th 2025 at 8:57:56 AM

When your focus is Hero of Another Story, the timespan between major events or the entire conflict is not a big deal. The anthology format of both Clone Wars-era cartoons worked phenomenally because it made the conflict bigger than the lead characters. The OT did the same thing where all the intelligence gathering and battle strategy was handled by minor characters, with the leads just slotting into key positions. The Battle of Endor was lead by Akbar in Home One with Lando an advisor leading the fighter squadron.

The real issue with the sequels was placing the lead characters as the absolute top authority of the Resistance and the only ones handling plot important developments. The rest of the Resistance are depicted as a group just standing around with nothing to do. It doesn't incite the imagination like "Many Bothans died to bring us this information."

Though I have long thought the 6 months-year gap between TESB and ROTJ didn't make much sense, as Lando and Chewie left to find Han at the end of TESB and the whole situation didn't feel like it required a 6 month deep cover mission.

Comics are just words and pictures. You can do anything with words and pictures.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#50653: Oct 16th 2025 at 9:26:30 AM

The Main Characters Do Everything was a huge thing with the ST, yeah.

It hit me rewatching the older films and Lucas' other works in general that Lucas was a big user of Mook Lieutenant both for fleshing out heroes and villain and pacing.

Vader wanted a big assault on a base? There's a general who is a minor Arc Villain for the attack who could handle the vehicular assault, while Vader took care of storming the complex. The Trade Federation is invading Naboo? Nute Gunray is on the planet while the guy coordinating the space forces is someone else. Etc, etc - it's how we get guys like Wedge Antilles or Admiral Piett or yadda yadda.

It's also a thing in Indiana Jones. Basically during the heroes' journey, each segment might have all sorts of different minor or even nameless villains who are the main threat of that segment, whereas the Big Bad characters are used more sparingly.

But in the ST, that's rare. The only lower deck antagonists of note are Phasma and Price and they barely do anything, and there's basically no lower deck heroes who do anything either. So the big villains are the ones personally doing everything evil and the main heroes handle literally every part of the plot which thins the story and does stuff like make Kylo look like a chump (though imo, at least in Kylo's case, that part works).

It's not super bad, but it's another one of things where it's noticeable the ST films were written more like a modern action movie than how the franchise usually tried to operate. Like most such things, the current canon dropped that sort of thing afterwards and now most Star Wars projects are written with that more fleshed out pacing.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 16th 2025 at 9:34:56 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#50654: Oct 16th 2025 at 9:32:21 AM

The OT has Admiral Piett and General Veers for breakout villain mooks.

Kylo Ren and the First Order could have used some standout henchmen besides the Huxster. The only FO officers I remember are that one old snarling admiral man in TLJ who was played by Mark Lewis Jones, and that other member of the officer council that complimented Kylo Ren's helmet in TROS.

I only mostly remember the First One because he did a decent job of establishing the FO were a bunch of snarling monsters who liked to ape the professional Imperial soldiers.

It's funny in Piett's case because his actor told a story about how Lucas gave him a call, told him Piett got a lot of mail, and that he'll be in Return, but Lucas didn't know what his role would be.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Avenger09 Since: May, 2014
#50655: Oct 16th 2025 at 9:37:03 AM

Well him being the Admiral in charge of the Super-Star Destroyer neatly sorted that out.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#50656: Oct 16th 2025 at 9:42:09 AM

Honestly, I get why Admiral Piett became such a darkhorse when his actor makes this expression:

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/original_9.webp

"Thank you, lord Vader."

"Fuck!"

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#50657: Oct 16th 2025 at 11:52:07 AM

Okay, so this is funny.

Apparently, ever since Rebels in the background there's been an in-universe fictional holo series based on the concept art and original/early drafts of the first movie.

Recently, Star Wars took the meta further by stating that this series has a huge in-universe fandom, with it's own in-universe equivalents to Wookiepedia and Star Wars Explained.

Which Star War Wars Explained... explains...

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 16th 2025 at 11:58:03 AM

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
doineedaname from Eastern US Since: Nov, 2010
#50660: Oct 16th 2025 at 1:09:53 PM

Small thing I saw recently about behind the scenes stuff on the old EU, that Matt Stover mentioned at a con that he was going to replace Karen Travis as the writer for Imperial Commando after she quit, until the Disney buyout canceled it.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#50661: Oct 16th 2025 at 1:11:20 PM

[up][up]It all started a long time ago with two brothers,one was with the light,the other was falling to the darkness

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Mara999 International Man of Mystery from Grim Up North Since: Sep, 2020 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
International Man of Mystery
#50662: Oct 16th 2025 at 1:11:25 PM

The only FO officers I remember are that one old snarling admiral man in TLJ who was played by Mark Lewis Jones

Captain Canady is indeed one of the highlights for TLJ, because he is such a good example of a competent military leader being bogged down by the incompetence of people both below and above him in the hierarchy. In a way I'm sad he died in his first appearance, because Jones gives such a good performance, that it feels like Canady has been a recurring long-suffering Mook Lieutenant for at least one previous film already. Seriously I can picture a montage of the man grumbling each time his morning-coffee is interrupted by news of new Resistance shenanigans, or because Snoke's two lapdogs are at it again.

But in the ST, that's rare. The only lower deck antagonists of note are Phasma and Price and they barely do anything, and there's basically no lower deck heroes who do anything either. So the big villains are the ones personally doing everything evil and the main heroes handle literally every part of the plot which thins the story and does stuff like make Kylo look like a chump (though imo, at least in Kylo's case, that part works).

That honestly reminds me a lot of a storytelling problem that Star Trek has had since the 1960's, where The Main Characters Do Everything applies to anything from missions to uncharted planets, to huge issues of interplanetary politics. Besides the Enterprise having to deal with the bulk of the Federation's problems, the captain of a starship should not have to attend every mission to planet surface, as they and the main officers should each have a squad of people to delegate tasks to. The same goes with how a lot of the villains appear a bit too often, even though they are the supreme leader of their faction and should reasonably have lots of flunkies to deal with their former enemies. This makes the supposed empires of species like Cardassians and Klingons come across as Oddly Small Organisations, that Sisko has to deal with single-handedly. That said, I love Star Trek dearly and this is not a huge issue for me.

Like most such things, the current canon dropped that sort of thing afterwards and now most Star Wars projects are written with that more fleshed out pacing.

That is one reason that I liked Resistance a lot, along with the focus on civilians. I would want more stuff from the ST-era, but presented in a similar way to how the franchise used to depict the conflicts.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#50663: Oct 16th 2025 at 1:27:53 PM

As time goes on, I think how the First Order officers being angry and snarling their orders does a lot to give them their individuality as villains in comparison to the coldly professional Empire soldiers.

I like that it emphasizes they are the children of defeated Imperials and are lost causers, so they are more angry and prone to lashing out unprofessionally.

It worked for Kylo Ren as well in the first movie.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#50664: Oct 16th 2025 at 2:27:42 PM

I quite liked Canady and Pryde myself. The way they project their last vestiges of old-time military dignity as they seethe over being outranked by the GFFA’s equivalents of Stormfront manbabies is amusing and almost makes you feel bad for them.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#50665: Oct 16th 2025 at 4:43:58 PM

It's still so funny to me that Pryde was basically introduced to replace General Huxter with someone intimidating.

At least we got a kind of hilarious scene of "I don't care if you win, I just need Kylo Ren to lose."

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#50666: Oct 16th 2025 at 4:59:53 PM

[up][up]

Canady in particular has some real Surrounded by Idiots energy.

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#50667: Oct 16th 2025 at 6:47:45 PM

One imagines that any former Imperial officer who avoided getting Force Choked by Anakin was either beneath his notice or was competent.

Disgusted, but not surprised
FrozenWolf2 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#50668: Oct 17th 2025 at 3:42:23 AM

I mean Death Squadron was Vader's Baby, you either were good at your job... or well its in the name of the squad.

I think both the EU and Canon pretty much accept that Death Squadron's defeat at Endor took like 80% of the Empire's most competent with it. -man Palpy played this hand badly-

similar to how Tarkin's victory party had alot of the OLD guard and most seasoned vets... just in time for the Death star to blow up.

The Empire and the FO basically never recovered cause all that was left was either the guys who were smart enough to go into business for themselves or well The Fanatics

This is an outrage against Luminara!
dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#50669: Oct 17th 2025 at 3:49:07 AM

This is Sci-Fi Writers Have No Sense of Scale to some extent: given the size of a navy to police the whole galaxy, you couldn't possibly lose all the competent people just on the Death Star or Death Squadron. They're a drop in the ocean.

FrozenWolf2 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#50670: Oct 17th 2025 at 3:58:58 AM

I mean well Yay

once you have a Galaxy of planets to probe resources

Death Stars and Super Star destroyers would never come close to bankrupting the Empire

but the Numbers are such absurd concepts that stating them would come off as gibberish to a normal person.

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on Oct 17th 2025 at 4:04:36 AM

This is an outrage against Luminara!
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#50671: Oct 17th 2025 at 4:03:44 AM

[up][up] Palpatine: I didn’t even finish paying that off, do you have any idea what it’s going to do to my credit!?

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#50672: Oct 17th 2025 at 8:26:00 AM

I mean, a major Imperial political figure was on the Death Star when it blew, and I imagine the Empire's pet project would be a much sought-after posting. The Empire didn't lose everyone competent when the first Death Star blew up, but they took a nasty hit.

Then the second Death Star blew up and took the Emperor, Vader, the Imperial flagship and the cream of the Imperial Navy with it in the surrounding battle.

FrozenWolf2 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#50673: Oct 17th 2025 at 8:29:27 AM

Tarkin invited a bunch of imperial big whigs to watch him blow up the rebels

like there is a reason someone as Clearly incompetent as Ozzel is somehow Vader's 2nd in command of his personal Task force

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on Oct 17th 2025 at 8:30:38 AM

This is an outrage against Luminara!
Freshwater Since: Apr, 2023
#50674: Oct 17th 2025 at 8:35:37 AM

They didn't lose every competent person, but even the largest military would start to fracture if their commander and chief and a good portion of their most competent highest and middle ranked admirals, vice-admirals, rear-admirals, commadores suddenly exploded over a moon.

At that point the chain of command starts to break down because their is no longer a clear line of succession. Everyone in the lower ranks (lieutenants, etc) has to figure out if they even can reestablish a hierarchy. People start deserting or they become small warlords with whatever resources they have available.

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#50675: Oct 17th 2025 at 8:39:48 AM

Especially since the Empire is all about everyone trying to step over each other.

Wake me up at your own risk.

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