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Critical Research Failure cleanup

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Dec 20th 2019 at 11:12:07 AM

From phrasing alone, I removed the examples on YMMV.BillyJoel: "minor", "detail".

Brainulator9 Short-Term Projects herald from US Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Short-Term Projects herald
Dec 20th 2019 at 7:04:12 PM

[up] In order, for each page:

  • YMMV.The Simpsons S 10 E 14 Im With Cupid: It's forgivable because it's a funny joke, but Elton John's real (legal) name is Elton John and not Reginald Dwight. He had it legally changed in 1972. Not common knowledge, delete.
  • YMMV.The Simpsons S 13 E 15 Blame It On Lisa: There are a lot of mistakes in the Brazilian representation in this episode. No wonder most Brazilians consider this episode alone the most inaccurate Brazilian (and Rio de Janeiro) representation ever (although the Brazilian Simpsons fans don't hate the episode and find the representation mistakes funny).
    • The favelas in Rio are very different from old crumbling houses from the 60s/70s presented in the episode, although the poverty is accurate. Not that an American would know that. Discuss?
    • There are no monkeys attacking people in the streets of Rio de Janeiro. Even in the favelas monkeys are very, very rare. The most common place to see a monkey in Brazil is in the zoo. The same could be said about the giant snakes (which eats Bart in the end of the episode). The number of rats in the streets is exaggerated and jellyfishes are uncommon in the beach sand. Ya sure this isn't here for comedy's sake?
    • Exotic animals aren't sold in the streets and this is prohibited by law. Maybe?
    • It's very rare to see children of Bart and Lisa's age stealing money or other things from people, although some teenagers do this and foreign tourists are one of the targets. Hmm... discuss.
    • Conga is a Cuban dance and people don't dance it in the streets. Plus, most of Brazilians don't know anything about this dance. Is this clear enough to Americans?
    • The Churrascaria (and the waiters) present in the episode is a southern themed Churrascaria and waiters don't dress like a Gaúchonote  in Rio. Also, people don't eat the meat directly from the large metal spits like Bart did in the episode. The waiters slice the meat in the client's plate. Another case of it not counting to Americans.
    • The dance instructor claims to be thinking of a new sexy dance, even sexier than the Lambada or the Macarena. While the Lambada was indeed Brazilian, the Macarena was sung by a Spanish group. The confusion probably stems from their group name, Los del Rio, which doesn't refer to Rio de Janeiro, but to the Spanish word for "river". Maybe? Seems nitpicky to me.
    • Homer's kidnappers travel with him to Amazon Forest and it's heavily implied this occurred in a very short time. Just for comparison, the distance between Rio de Janeiro to the whereabouts of Amazon Forest is almost 4400 kilometers.note  This is almost the same of travelling from New York to Los Angeles. Artistic License is in full effect here. Cut.
  • YMMV.The Simpsons S 16 E 21 The Father The Son And The Holy Guest Star: Assuming Artistic License Religion isn't in play, but Catholic Heaven appears to be composed mostly of whites when, realistically, there should have been a bit more Brazilians, Filipinos, and a few Timorese here and there. This is nitpicking. Cut.
  • YMMV.The Simpsons S 20 E 1 Sex Pies And Idiot Scrapes: Anyone who has done research on The Troubles and Northern Irish politics knows that the conflict is actually between native Irish people who favor being part of the Republic of Ireland (Republicans) and the descendants of British colonists who want it to be part of the United Kingdom (Loyalists). While the Republicans are majority Catholic and the Loyalists majority Protestant, the religious aspect is mostly a byproduct and you can find people of the opposite faith on both sides. Too obscure for Americans?
  • YMMV.The Simpsons S 25 E 20 Brick Like Me: Ignoring the poor indentation on the page itself...
    • The episode outright states that everything fits perfectly together in the Lego world, so nothing can ever be broken. As any Lego collector could tell you, this statement is simply not true, as Lego pieces can be overused, so they have to be replaced later. Are we sure this isn't just that Lego can be taken apart and put back together?
    • The scene in the church where they stick the windows onto the brick walls is extremely cringeworthy for anyone who's a fan of Lego. Lego usually provides actual windows for their sets. Also, anyone who sticks a sticker onto anything other than a solid surface is going to regret it immediately. One: do Lego fans cringe at this? Two: is this not Rule of Funny?
  • YMMV.The Simpsons S 26 E 10 The Man Who Came To Be Dinner: A shallow Take That! at Disney involves a Mickey Mouse stand-in saying "My cartoons weren't good, they were just first", when anyone who's familiar with Felix the Cat, the early animations by Windsor McCay, or even the history of animation in general would know for certain that Mickey Mouse is not the first cartoon character. Keep? It doesn't involve specifics of works the same way Cowboy Be Bop At His Computer does.
  • YMMV.The Simpsons S 2 E 11 One Fish Two Fish Blowfish Blue Fish:
    • Homer accidentally eats a poorly prepared Fugu (blowfish) at a Japanese restaurant. He's then told he'll be dead by the next day and there's no way to survive it, and the episode treats it as a standard poison. On the one hand, poison doesn't last that long if you survive ingesting potentially lethal poison to the next day you've probably metabolized it safely. On the other, it's irrelevant, because Fugu poison is a neurotoxin that causes death by paralysis and then asphyxiation, not generic poisoning, and it's very survivable granted you get medical aid (if you can get assistance breathing when the paralysis sets in you can survive until you metabolize it, though it has long-lasting, crippling effects). Chefs must have a certificate with years of training to prep for it, while there are some fugu restaurants in the US, all go through the same rigorous training. Seems too obscure.
    • In-universe and Played for Laughs, while waiting for Dr. Hibbert Homer grumbles that he's never heard of a poison pork chop. Of course, poorly stored or prepared pork can be as problematic as the fugu Homer eats. Should be moved to the main page.
  • YMMV.The Simpsons S 4 E 1 Kamp Krusty: Krusty being knighted by Queen Elizabeth II. Unless he was born in one of the commonwealth countries (United Kingdom, Australia, etc.), the most he can receive is an honorary knighthood, such as an OBE or an OC. How well known is this?
  • YMMV.The Simpsons S 6 E 16 Bart Vs Australia: Bart calls several countries in the Southern Hemisphere to see which way the water flows in their toilets and drains. Among them is apparently Burkina Faso. This might have been justified since Bart isn't exactly solid with the book-learning, but he did have a globe and a (very) basic understanding of the Equator to work with. Possible keep.

These are my thoughts, though. Feel free to disagree.

Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
Dec 21st 2019 at 9:25:28 AM

I added YMMV.The Simpsons S 16 E 21 The Father The Son And The Holy Guest Star to the cutlist, as it seemed like clear shoehorning.

Edit: The example in question was originally listed under Artistic License Religion and the current example freely admits that it could be Artistic License. I commented out until it can be cut.

Edited by costanton11 on Dec 22nd 2019 at 11:50:18 AM

Dec 24th 2019 at 12:32:36 PM

While waiting for more thoughts on the subpages I previously mentioned, here's what the main Simpsons YMMV page has on the trope:

  • Critical Research Failure:
    • In "The Man Who Came to Be Dinner", a shallow Take That! at Disney involves a Mickey Mouse stand-in saying "My cartoons weren't good, they were just first", when anyone who's familiar with Felix the Cat, the early animations by Windsor McCay, or even the history of animation in general would know for certain that Mickey Mouse is not the first cartoon character, not even the first to become popular.
    • In "That '90s Show", a billboard in 1998 depicts Amy Rose with her design from Sonic Adventure, which wasn't released in North America until the following year.
    • In "To Courier With Love", the French police use poodles as service dogs. There are two problems with this, firstly, they are using the wrong breed of a poodle as they are using toy poodles. It should be a standard poodle since toy poodles are mainly bred for companionship. Secondly, poodles aren't known for being service dogs. However, this all seemingly invoked as a joke due to the comments between the chief and the officer:
      "I keep telling you, they are worthless"
      "But they are so damn cute"

The first is one that was already on the list I previously posted.

Edited by costanton11 on Dec 24th 2019 at 2:34:45 PM

Dec 24th 2019 at 12:52:53 PM

I think you can cut the last one, since it even admits to being Rule of Funny.

WarJay77 He who is without bones from The Void Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
He who is without bones
WarJay77 He who is without bones from The Void Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Dec 27th 2019 at 10:20:59 PM

[up]Probably not common enough knowledge to count.

Dec 28th 2019 at 12:27:37 AM

It is also a little inaccurate as, if I remember correctly, while orcs didn't exist as a separate fantasy race until Tolkien, the word existed as another word for goblin during Anglo-Saxon times so could have been an appropriate word to use.

Knowledge is Power, Guard it Well
firewriter Bulla to Earthlings, Echalote to Saiyans.
Bulla to Earthlings, Echalote to Saiyans.
Dec 28th 2019 at 11:13:11 AM

So, basically those guys were calling them goblins. Pretty interesting Genius Bonus.

Edited by firewriter on Dec 28th 2019 at 11:13:50 AM

Shonen Is Not Just For Boys, Even If Literally Means "Boy".
Dec 28th 2019 at 11:57:53 AM

That or the writers were Right for the Wrong Reasons

Knowledge is Power, Guard it Well
Dec 28th 2019 at 12:51:17 PM

This page has some pretty interesting information on the word's history.

Complete Monster quotes cleanup
Jan 2nd 2020 at 6:58:41 PM

I removed that example, citing this thread.

Jan 8th 2020 at 11:45:35 PM

Found this on Dracula (2020):

  • Critical Research Failure: Dracula claims to have killed one of the sailors in Episode 2 for his "charming Bavarian accent". While he does learn to speak flawless German from draining the poor sod, it's actually High German without the slightest hint of anything resembling Bavarian, and the sailor himself never sounded Bavarian in the first place.

GastonRabbit A real nowhere man from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Jan 9th 2020 at 2:51:12 AM

[up]That sounds more like Artistic License Linguistics.

Possibly out of commission for a while due to receiving my second Moderna vaccine dose.
MathsAngelicVersion Proud Owner of a Custom Title from Gensokyo Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Proud Owner of a Custom Title
Jan 12th 2020 at 12:28:59 PM

I think there's a lot of shoehorning on CriticalResearchFailure.Vegan Artbook. Many of the examples are not obviously false. For instance, the one about "rape racks" requires you to know dairy-farming jargon. I also think the "cow milk is not 'boobie milk'" example is just overanalyzing an Appeal to Ridicule.

WarJay77 He who is without bones from The Void Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
He who is without bones
Jan 12th 2020 at 12:30:17 PM

[up] Yeah, the comic has a lot of garbage in it, but that bunch of examples are all overexaggerations.

Wick Check Project Official Sandbox (TM)
firewriter Bulla to Earthlings, Echalote to Saiyans.
Bulla to Earthlings, Echalote to Saiyans.
Jan 15th 2020 at 4:16:51 PM


I don't think it's overnalyzing when she in her work has said over and over again that udder milk is boobie milk.


Not exactly overexaggerating, especially if you read her deviantart page and you really know how insane she is.

Edited by firewriter on Jan 15th 2020 at 4:17:39 AM

Shonen Is Not Just For Boys, Even If Literally Means "Boy".
Jan 15th 2020 at 4:38:43 PM

Maybe but it still needs a clean-up. Like, look at the first entry:

First and foremost: despite what the vegans would have you believe, humans are indeed omnivores.

While this is a valid example because it is a basic fact, is "despite what the vegans would have you believe" necessary? It feels like an attack on all vegans, not just the webcomic author.

Then there's an entry all about the somatic content allowed in consumable milk, how would anybody that's not a dairy farmer or work for the FDA know about that? Another entry is just the fact that they sometimes show cartoon animals crying, despite not being capable. Is that really necessary?

Like, I can take out many of these entries and there still enough to warrant the page. It's not like its being let off the hook.

Edited by Stage7-4 on Jan 15th 2020 at 4:43:33 AM

firewriter Bulla to Earthlings, Echalote to Saiyans.
Bulla to Earthlings, Echalote to Saiyans.
Jan 15th 2020 at 5:18:29 PM

@Stage 7-4

You have a point there about that line generalizing all vegans, but there is a reason why there is a entry about cows crying because in vegan propaganda they claim that cows cry after their babies are taken away. And it's a way to humanize animals and make them seem sapient.

If I were to be honest, I do think that maybe some of those examples can be filed under artistic license. Also I think that entry was ferring to the vegan characters and not vegans in general.

Edited by firewriter on Jan 15th 2020 at 5:22:18 AM

Shonen Is Not Just For Boys, Even If Literally Means "Boy".
WarJay77 He who is without bones from The Void Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
He who is without bones
Jan 15th 2020 at 9:21:19 PM

You're missing my point. I know the creator is insane; the webcomic is awful and full of fallacies and misinformation. The issue is, misinformation =/= Critical Research Failure.

Wick Check Project Official Sandbox (TM)
Jan 16th 2020 at 3:57:43 PM

I took a stab at editing out the most flagrant examples (either for tone or just too sciencey for this trope). But there's still a lot to go over. Here's my result:

  • Despite what the Yerdian would have you believe, humans are indeed omnivores.
  • In one page of the comic, Yerdian accuses hunters of shooting mother deer for fun or at least supporting such, when in fact most hunting organizations ban shooting does that have fawns with them.
  • Yerdian states that several animals are vegan or could have vegan diets, from omnivores like gorillas and bonobos to true carnivores like cats. This is not true, and can be harmful to the animal (especially for cats).
  • In one strip, Raziel spouts out the narrative's message, that global hunger and many environmental ills could be solved if people just went vegan. However, many of the solutions she suggests are an oversimplification of complex issues and misblames the meat industry for all those problems.
    • Global hunger often times is the result of distribution of resources or caused by environmental problems like drought and pest-induced crop failure. In many subsistence areas, meat and dairy are an important food source that can be relied on when plant agriculture fails.
    • While the meat industry does have its problems with the environment, industrial farming as a whole is culpable. Many of the problems she blames solely on the meat industry have also been seen in the plant agricultural business (especially corn and soy) as well. Others, such as fertilizer-induced algal blooms, pesticide pollution, and soil depletion are entirely the result of poor plant agriculture practices.
    • While food animals do consume a large amount of cultivated plant matter, it's important to distinguish this from food crops. Most large cattle are raised eating grass on land that is totally unsuited for agriculture, with supplementary feed typically consisting of things like corn husks and stalks, pulp left over from sugar beet and sugar cane processing, and "filler" crops like alfalfa grown alongside or in rotation with crops like cotton and corn on more suitable land.
  • The emphasis on meat "decaying" as soon as the animal dies and this being a sign that meat is disgusting. It's true, but plant tissues start breaking up as soon as they're picked, too. It's actually easier to preserve meat than plants without losing nutritional value and quality.
  • A common argument against omnivory is that humans need tools and cooking in order to eat meat, which means that people are not natural predators. However, many species of animals like otters, chimps, and ravens use tools to hunt.
    • Another counterargument is the fact that human beings can, in fact, eat raw meat.
    • This also ignores that many food plants need preparation and cooking before becoming suitable for consumption.
  • The fact that soy products in general can also be dangerous is also glossed over: A soy allergy is one of the eight most common food allergies, and can range from mild intolerance to full blown anaphylaxis. As with other food allergies, the onset can be triggered suddenly and violently, especially in children.
  • The artbook vegans solely place the blame of deadzones on the results of land based animal agriculture, while ignoring other culprits like pesticides, fertilizers, and other chemicals that are used in crop farming.
  • A common argument for veganism made by the comic is the idea that we would use less farmland if we didn't eat meat. While an all meat diet has shown to be the worst agricultural model, going all vegan would still require more land in comparison with diets that incorporate some meat into it.
  • The artbook vegans commonly state that veganism doesn't "needlessly kill" animals or negatively impact people, in order represent their lifestyle as being more moral than a omnivorous one. A lot of practices that are needed to maintain a vegan lifestyle have threatened the lives of wild animals and caused great damage to indigenous people.
    • To elaborate further, more fertilizers, herbicides, pesticides and other threats are used to keep pests away, along with native vegetation being cleared to make room for edible crops, which results in more animal and plant life getting killed.
    • In addition, many vegan staples like quinoa, asparagus, and soy have been so high demand in the West, that it has caused many detrimental effects to the native populations. Many of these crops have gotten more expensive in their homelands to the point that they can't afford to buy it, require a lot of water to maintain which results in less resources for them to use, or have been the cause of deforestation.
    • None of this is to say that being an omnivore is objectively better than being a vegan, but rather that both lifestyles have clear issues that the comic doesn't touch on or intentionally ignores.
  • The comic continually treats meat as an addiction, and claims that all non-vegans are essentially addicts, who have been psychologically conditioned by society to eat meat.
  • Their argument against using honey bees is that they hurt the environment and they are not the best pollinators. While honey bees are not perfect, they certainly do play a great part in helping major crops grow. Many vegan staples like almonds, soy, and avocado depend on honey bees in order to pollinate.
  • In one panel, when arguing against the use of cow milk, it puts horse milk in with dog and giraffe milk in order to ridicule the idea of drinking animal products. This backfires due to the fact that people, especially in Central Asian steppes cultures, have been drinking horse milk for centuries.
  • Mike in one strip spreads misleading information about allergies when it comes to vegan diets.
    • She incorrectly states that food allergies can be reversed/reduced by eating a plant based diet. However, the truth is there has been no real cure for food allergies. And the actual conditions she is talking about are food intolerances.
    • Likewise, she states that you can cure environment allergies by doing a raw vegan diet, when there has been no compelling evidence that effectively improve or treat them.
  • A common claim that vegans bring up about switching to an all plant diet, is that there would be more grain to feed everyone in the world instead of spending it on raising cattle. This is purely false: Wealthy countries already produce enough grain to feed everyone in the world; the reason why that grain is inaccessible to poorer countries is because the wealthy nations hoard it for their own use.
    • In addition, the grain used to feed cattle is not the same grain used to feed humans.
  • One panel has a disabled person state that she can't go vegan because her carer decides what she eats, so she has no choice in whether or not to go vegan. Dolly retorts that she should be able to tell the carer that she wants Vegan foods and, if her carer refuses, then they should be sued. A carer's job entails making sure their patient is healthy, which means giving them the food that they need as opposed to what they necessarily want. The summary goes on to claim that many allergies and disabilities are caused by the consumption of animal products, and that a whole-foods, plant-based diet can cure them, even going as far as to boast that a WFPBD can cure autism.
  • The series has repeatedly stated that Hitler being a vegetarian is a myth. However, this is inaccurate due to the fact that there were many personal accounts that refute the claim that he wasn't. While he did make an exception for liver dumplings, he generally was very dedicated to being vegetarian for ethical reasons. He was very vocal about his anti-meat and animal welfare views, and in addition passed many anti-animal abuse laws and was a strong conservationist.
  • In the comment section of Pupa Vegan 556, Yerdian claims that India used to be a vegetarian country until the British came and spread the practice of animal slaughter to the populace. This is false, since animal slaughter including the consumption of beef, has had a long history in the country since ancient times. Also despite claiming that Rohit practices the original form of Hinduism, some of the oldest text mentions multiple cases of followers being allowed to eat meat. Further, the Vedas make frequent mention of ghee (clarified butter).

Edited by Stage7-4 on Jan 16th 2020 at 4:29:13 AM

Jan 16th 2020 at 4:19:59 PM

[up] Might be worth moving that to a sandbox while we work on it; I just tried to copy it in order to work on it, but AFAIK there's no way to copy the page source of someone else's forum post and having to re-add all the bullets would be a pain.

A lot of it I'm not sure about because I'm not sure where we draw the line between failing to do the research and intentional misinformation. Does it really count as a Critical Research Failure if the author is perfectly aware of the research, but is willfully ignoring it?

Like, I'm sure the author is perfectly aware that there's plenty of research out there indicating that humans are naturally omnivorous, but has found some Insane Troll Logic way of discounting it.

The more I look at the list above, the more I think it might be best to cutlist the whole page and call it a day.

Edited by HighCrate on Jan 16th 2020 at 4:21:50 AM

Total posts: 219

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