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US Politics - Impeachment Proceedings

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This thread is intended for a civil, focused discussion on the various impeachment proceedings of President Trump and others in the administration.

Keep in mind that this is a narrowly focused thread, created to more closely manage this topic of discussion. The pros and cons of said impeachment were soft-banned in the General US Politics thread for a few months, due to incessant arguing. However, there is a high desire to discuss said events and it is of such high prominence that we are willing to give this devoted thread a try.'

Things to keep in mind:

  • This is about impeachment, votes on, investigations on, inquiries in, articles on, etc. Other American political discussions should go into the General Politics thread.
  • Standard rules apply. Civility and appropriate forum conduct are paramount.
  • Circular arguments about pros/cons are what got the topic banned in the first place. If we feel it's going circular, we will intervene. Multiple intercessions will not be looked on kindly.
  • As for that intervention, mods will be monitoring and moderating this thread more closely due to the nature of the topic, and its history in the General Politics thread. We will warn and thump in an effort to keep this thread on-topic and civil, but we are more than willing to lock it if people aren't willing to course-correct.

This thread doesn't have to be a case of Why Fandom Can't Have Nice Things, but it will be, if necessary.

Edited by nombretomado on Sep 26th 2019 at 5:19:24 AM

TitanJump Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Singularity
#2751: Feb 2nd 2020 at 12:28:06 AM

[up] Wouldn't there be laws still applying to talk shows (that portion of Fox News everyone recognize) even so?

Like a "This is not an actual news channel" brand or something that'll show during the whole time it's broadcast?

...

[up][up][up]

Going by how the GOP is trying to turn the United States into an autocracy, the only way to remove them from power, might end up through a militia-uprising and at gunpoint.

They are already hellbent on taking away the rights from everyone else, women, the poor, immigrants, the middle-class, the homeless, prisoners, voters, healthcare, social programs, etc...

The very definition of an oppressive government.

And if they refuse to step down when voted out, that's the only option left that doesn't involve dying from old age.

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#2752: Feb 2nd 2020 at 12:29:22 AM

[up][up] That’s not technically true [1] but it doesn’t actually matter. News organizations aren’t really legally prohibited from lying. Most political speech is protected under the first amendment, and defamation really only refers to specific false statements causing harm to a specific individual.

the only way to remove them from power, might end up through a militia-uprising and at gunpoint.

Yeah, because violent insurrections usually make things so much better.

Edited by archonspeaks on Feb 2nd 2020 at 12:35:38 PM

They should have sent a poet.
TitanJump Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Singularity
#2753: Feb 2nd 2020 at 12:43:04 AM

[up] So you're just fine with the country just roll over and surrender if it turns out that the GOP rendered its vote invalid thanks to them granting the president the permission to do anything to win the election, including asking for foreign interference to affect the result?

You won't get rid off vermin just because you "asked them nicely to leave" after all.

And as long the GOP remains unchallenged in power, things won't get better.

...

So now when the impeachment court is about to roll up, what will happen with this thread then?

Will it be put into stasis until the next impeachment of Trump rolls around?

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#2754: Feb 2nd 2020 at 12:46:35 AM

I think you are wrong that Trump's acquittal here means his power is bigger.

Because the next time he breaks the law, he'll be impeached again.

And once more forced to go through all this.

This was always theater but it wasn't theater for the Republicans. He already had their permission to do anything.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#2755: Feb 2nd 2020 at 12:52:18 AM

[up][up] Why don’t you just think about how a violent overthrow of large parts of our government would go down, and then imagine the aftermath.

Here’s a hint: it would be worse, not better.

They should have sent a poet.
PhysicalStamina ain't nothin' but a party y'all (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
ain't nothin' but a party y'all
#2756: Feb 2nd 2020 at 1:00:12 AM

Any attempt at a violent uprising would end within an hour, with the perpetrators turned into bodies by local police, SWAT, Coast Guard, you name it.

It would also give a ton of legitimacy to the "both sides" narratives in the minds of anyone who would frown on such a revolt.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Feb 2nd 2020 at 4:01:59 AM

Do not spare the feelings of those who would not spare yours.
TitanJump Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Singularity
#2757: Feb 2nd 2020 at 1:01:25 AM

[up][up][up] This is Donald Trump we're talking about her. This whole Ukraine-Extortion scheme came right after he got "exonerated" from the Mueller Report.

Imagine what he will do now in the aftermath of this.

And the GOP do not care about reeling him in anymore, not as long they are in majority.

And got a corrupt AG in form of William Barr serving as his meatshield.

...

[up][up]

I know already it's bad, and will give leeway to the end of the year before judging if using the "Second Amendment" to dethrone the autocrat-in-chief will be necessary, but consider this...

How much longer will it be until the Alt-Right (emboldened and high on Trump's "victory") starts taking matters into their own hands and starts commit acts of terrorism against Team Blue if Trump wins a second term, in order to "help" their "beloved leader" to "make america great again"?

There have already been cases of Trump-extremists going out of their way to plan terrorism, who is to say they won't get even worse?

...

And that said, I have to ask again.

What will happen to this thread once the impeachment court is over?

Edited by TitanJump on Feb 2nd 2020 at 10:03:57 AM

PhysicalStamina ain't nothin' but a party y'all (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
ain't nothin' but a party y'all
#2758: Feb 2nd 2020 at 1:03:18 AM

[up]In order:

  1. Hopefully, the police/whoever else is necessary will take care of it.
  2. The thread will most likely be locked.

Do not spare the feelings of those who would not spare yours.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#2759: Feb 2nd 2020 at 1:24:16 AM

[up][up] So, just to be clear, what are you suggesting here? Your response to potential domestic terrorism is to overthrow the entire government by violent force? Do you genuinely not see how that would lead to an even worse outcome than the one you’re trying to avoid?

Edited by archonspeaks on Feb 2nd 2020 at 1:24:58 AM

They should have sent a poet.
singularityshot Since: Dec, 2012
#2760: Feb 2nd 2020 at 1:29:02 AM

Despite the fact the Republicans have trivialised Impeachment through their theatrics in the House and their cover up in the Senate, it does not mean that there is no threshold for another set of Articles in the foreseeable future.

It could be said that the Democrats have "won" this Impeachment fight based on the reported opposition to McConnell's actions to deny witnesses and thus distort the very idea of this being a trial.

But because the Democrats are in a winning position here it does mean that they have something to lose should they make the wrong step. And I feel opening another high profile investigation with the view that this could lead to Impeachment would snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Impeachment now as a tool has to be put away unless we do get something so heinous that the country would revolt if Trump was able to avoid the consequences via legal immunity and whatnot.

Instead therefore I feel they need to make sure that this Impeachment stays in the news. Lev Parnas and John Bolton are doing excellent jobs in this regard but the Democrats can take it one step further.

Get Adam Schiff (and the other Impeachment managers) to write a book as well. Keep making the case, with a continuing drip drip drip of new information that means that Trump cannot just move on from this Ukraine debacle.

TitanJump Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Singularity
#2761: Feb 2nd 2020 at 1:37:24 AM

Edited: Aborting this line of topic before it goes out of control

Edited by TitanJump on Feb 2nd 2020 at 10:52:22 AM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#2762: Feb 2nd 2020 at 1:42:13 AM

Or here’s a crazy idea.

People could vote and rely upon government institutions not totally under the control of Trump’s puppets (primarily the secret service but also the DC police and the military) to remove him if he tries to stay in power after loosing an election.

Look I agree that Trump is pretty likely to not leave office except by force, but you’re making wild assumptions that force would mean an armed rebellion across the entire country, and not simply two secret service agents picking him up and throwing him in the back of a car.

You’re acting as if democrats are totally frozen out of any form of government control, they control both the DC police and the national guard from both neighbouring states, you’d be looking at those coming into play (and possibly triggering a civil war) well before your mad armed revolt scenario happens.

Edited by Silasw on Feb 2nd 2020 at 9:44:33 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#2763: Feb 2nd 2020 at 1:46:16 AM

[up][up] How would that end in any other way than these armed civilians getting arrested? Open carrying in DC is wildly illegal, especially as part of a protest or near a federal building. I suppose they could shoot it out with the cops. And I’m sure it definitely wouldn’t backfire in any way as far as media coverage.

That’s quite possibly the most unrealistic, out of touch suggestion I’ve seen proposed here.

Edited by archonspeaks on Feb 2nd 2020 at 1:49:56 AM

They should have sent a poet.
RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#2764: Feb 2nd 2020 at 1:49:37 AM

There's a forum rule against wishing for political assassination, and I'm pretty sure that laying out details for "Second Amendment 2024" is little better. I suggest we move on, or lock the thread if this is what it's going to be used for now.

It's been fun.
TitanJump Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Singularity
#2765: Feb 2nd 2020 at 1:53:12 AM

Is there anything that could happen that could overhaul the foregone conclusion in the Senate before the final vote on acquittal?

Anything?

Edited by TitanJump on Feb 2nd 2020 at 10:53:19 AM

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#2766: Feb 2nd 2020 at 1:53:56 AM

The risk is not the GOP staying in power if they lose the election.

The risk is the GOP winning the election, or stealing it in a way that isn’t obviously illegitimate to the public at large (e.g., voter suppression). And the best response I can think of to that is mass non-violent resistance. Organize large groups to knock down parts of the border wall and be arrested for doing so. Continual mass protests at the internment camps. And so forth. Don’t let the public or the media push these things to the backs of their minds.

Edited by Galadriel on Feb 2nd 2020 at 4:57:03 AM

singularityshot Since: Dec, 2012
#2767: Feb 2nd 2020 at 4:52:07 AM

[up][up] If you are looking for something that'll turn the entire narrative of this Impeachment trial on it's head and thus result in Trump's conviction and removal from office then no, there isn't anything that someone from outside the Republican party can do.

Basically the only scenario I can imagine is if Trump uses the State of the Union address to call for the arrest of Nancy Pelosi, Adam Schiff, Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton just for the hell of it. Essentially do something so despotic that even Republicans feel the need to push the button marked eject whilst they still have it.

So yeah, short of that doomsday scenario the outcome of this trial is fixed. But we knew this from the start - and since it appears most of the public don't like the fact it was fixed from the start then that's a win for the Democrats in my book.

The Democrats have been consistent in their message that this was something they had an obligation to pursue even though the outcome was predetermined. There were many pitfalls along the way that could have led people to turn against Impeachment. For the most part they have avoided them, and so the failure to Impeach Trump is falling 100% on Republican shoulders. They are going to have to carry that with them into the ballot box in November.

It may not feel like it, but this is the Good Ending for Impeachment. Sure, we didn't unlock the Super Secret Ending but no one manages that on their first play through, and we've got 9 months to replay this again and again via the media, via book deals and via the debates.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#2768: Feb 2nd 2020 at 6:45:02 AM

> It may not feel like it, but this is the Good Ending for Impeachment. Sure, we didn't unlock the Super Secret Ending but no one manages that on their first play through, and we've got 9 months to replay this again and again via the media, via book deals and via the debates.

I don't know about this being a 'good ending' ending,it's not necessarily a bad ending either,it's just a Normal ending everyone gets on their first playthrough

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Reflextion from a post-sanity world (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
#2769: Feb 2nd 2020 at 6:51:24 AM

I mean, we pretty much got locked out of all the Good Endings back in 2016

Someone did tell me life was going to be this way.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#2770: Feb 2nd 2020 at 9:07:50 AM

I finally have a fictional character who Trump reminds me of most: Kefka.

But I point out Trump is 73 and no longer mentally fit now. People terrified of the beginning of a new dictatorship under his control are perhaps putting the cart before the horse. I never wish ill on another human being but the nature of life and death are against him as well as Mitch at this point.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Feb 2nd 2020 at 9:10:21 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
singularityshot Since: Dec, 2012
#2771: Feb 2nd 2020 at 9:15:26 AM

Well, if you were going to introduce a "Normal Ending" into my "Good Ending / Bad Ending" dichotomy then my analogy was always going to get strained...

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#2772: Feb 2nd 2020 at 9:18:38 AM

The best we can hope for is a Bittersweet Ending now.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TitanJump Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Singularity
#2773: Feb 2nd 2020 at 9:20:12 AM

[up][up][up] Not to mention how his body is rapidly breaking down as a consequence of his self-imposed lifestyle as well.

Eating only fast-food out of paranoia of being poisoned otherwise.

Never exercises or keeping his body in shape, takes a car wherever he wants to go, on the golf-court and even just to cross a street

Not to mention a utter lack of vegetables and fruits and vitamins...

With his high blood-pressure from raving mad mostly of the time taking its toll on his pump alongside with his poor sleeping habits (since seriously, who tweets three o'clock in the morning of all times.)

And then there's the stress that comes with being president of the united states, which has turned more than one much healthier individual gray-haired over the span of a few years...

Trump most likely won't live past an age of 80...based on his lifestyle alone.

Edited by TitanJump on Feb 2nd 2020 at 6:22:54 PM

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#2774: Feb 2nd 2020 at 9:20:48 AM

Lamar is a definitive no on removing Trump, and with him, goes the chance to get a 'Guilty but not removed' vote for either Abuse or Obstruction.

Republicans better pay come November. We have to vote as many as we can out. Especially Trump.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#2775: Feb 2nd 2020 at 9:59:16 AM

Don't hope for Trump to die in office. Hope for Trump to be voted out in 2020. And by "hope", I mean "actually do what you can to see that outcome achieved, including doing volunteer work to see your preferred candidate's message reach people".

Trump dying in office isn't an escape hatch. No longer having the Reality of Trump interfering with the Myth of Trump would give the Republicans free license to deify him the way they did Reagan. The best outcome is Trump being rejected by Americans at the polls in November.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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