This thread is intended for a civil, focused discussion on the various impeachment proceedings of President Trump and others in the administration.
Keep in mind that this is a narrowly focused thread, created to more closely manage this topic of discussion. The pros and cons of said impeachment were soft-banned in the General US Politics thread
for a few months, due to incessant arguing. However, there is a high desire to discuss said events and it is of such high prominence that we are willing to give this devoted thread a try.'
Things to keep in mind:
- This is about impeachment, votes on, investigations on, inquiries in, articles on, etc. Other American political discussions should go into the General Politics thread.
- Standard rules
apply. Civility and appropriate forum conduct are paramount.
- Circular arguments about pros/cons are what got the topic banned in the first place. If we feel it's going circular, we will intervene. Multiple intercessions will not be looked on kindly.
- As for that intervention, mods will be monitoring and moderating this thread more closely due to the nature of the topic, and its history in the General Politics thread. We will warn and thump in an effort to keep this thread on-topic and civil, but we are more than willing to lock it if people aren't willing to course-correct.
This thread doesn't have to be a case of Why Fandom Can't Have Nice Things, but it will be, if necessary.
Edited by nombretomado on Sep 26th 2019 at 5:19:24 AM
Doesn't change the fact that people are getting what they voted for. (yeah yeah, foreign interference, electoral college, voter suppression, and so on, and so forth)
Someone did tell me life was going to be this way.Eh, the electoral college thing is something I'm about ready to give up on. No one wants to fix it so there's point in even caring. If one side wants it gone and the other side wants it corrupt then the only option is to put it down.
But we'll have to focus on that before the election with that state initiative to make sure the popular vote carries this one.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jan 31st 2020 at 5:20:49 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.Let's not get back to the EC again.
Back to the impeachment topic. COME ON, Lamar Alexander! You admitted Trump did it, yet you don't want to hear witnesses? Fucking hell! What is wrong with you??
Edited by speedyboris on Jan 31st 2020 at 6:15:26 AM
So, Lamar Alexander has said he's voting no on additional witnesses, again proving once again that the Republican Moderate is very much the white whale of US politics.
His fig leaf of an excuse is that "since the Impeachment was not done in a bipartisan manner, I feel no need to support this Impeachment process."
Which begs the question - if Justin Amash had not left the Republican Party and therefore voted to Impeach the President as a Republican and not as an independent, would that have given Lamar Alexander the bipartisan seal of approval that he would need to vote for the witnesses the Democrats request? If so, then why does Justin Amash declaring himself an independent change that reasoning?
There was also that one Republican who temporarily voted to Impeach but then changed their vote. I still don't know who did it either.
Most likely, even if Justin remained a Republican and this other Republican stuck with a Yes vote, Lamar would still say "This is a purely Partisan Impeachment, started and supported only by Democrats, andimchoosingtoignorethe2republicansbecauseitsonly2itsnotlikeits10oranything."
Reminder that Lamar Alexander is retiring as of this year.
So, he's basically saying, fuck you, I'm outta here.
So is it tomorrow that we will know for certain if the democracy is still alive in some form or if the United States will have turned into an dictatorship beneath the MAGA-cult and GOP with Trump as their "King"?
(This is not doom-saying...if it were, I would have mentioned "is tomorrow the time to prepare to leave the country or not?")
Regardless of the case, the fight against Trump and the GOP will just go on ever so strong, with new impeachments against a president that will, with no doubt, claim his acquittal "exonorated" him and "cleared him of ALL impeachment charges", to his rabid cult.
I dare not to imagine what he will do next after this... I mean, this whole mess started as a response to dodging the Mueller report (which still never exonerated him on anything he was accused of.) so what's next?
Jailing Biden on false charges?
And if more impeachments comes his way, what's stopping the GOP from dismissing them even faster next time around?
Edited by TitanJump on Jan 31st 2020 at 4:04:49 PM
This part.
This part is why people are saying you called for the death of a political adversary.
Proposing that the state should murder someone isn't the same thing as proposing that private citizens should murder them, but both are still demands for a person to die.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 31st 2020 at 8:05:18 AM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Also, the place to contest a moderator action is not this thread, it's this one
.
I'm going to assume that's just preempting me contesting the thump, because I was simply responding to a regular poster.
And thanks, BTW.
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I do not appreciate your equation of a legal death sentence being applied to those who are convincted of being wilful accomplices to murder to murder. (... Okay, this is should be a grammatically correct sentence, but damn if that ending looks terrible.)
No, that's dumb, because there's an election in November.
"It's not a democracy because democratically elected officials are being self-serving" is an awful argument.
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I'm not talking about self-serving democratically-elected officials here.
I'm talking about a party that just green-lighted how the president of the united states is "allowed" to do anything he thinks is good for the country, including collecting dirt on political opponents (accurate or just straight made-up lies) from foreign countries and even extort or blackmail said countries to get said dirt anyway.
How is that part of any democratic-process?
(Not to mention that the GOP have a history of cheating their elections in any way they can. Making their positions of power non-democratic results from the get-go)
In a technical sense, I personally see degrees of "self-serving" rather than it being binary. In a more practical sense, I reserve the use of "self-serving" to describe people whose actions begin and end with serving themselves and their own personal goals with little to no empathy for those who may suffer in the process.
So I wouldn't really call someone like Obama self-serving, but I would definitely call someone like Trump self-serving.
On a more impeachment-related note, you guys heard about how the Justice Department and Trump's defense team managed to contradict each other the other day on the impeachability of Trump's actions toward Ukraine
?
Edited by MarqFJA on Jan 31st 2020 at 6:52:58 PM
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.![]()
You can't say that it's become a dictatorship under a king rather than a democracy when everything that is currently happening is still within the realms of democracy. Nobody said you can't elect people who will do stupid things. Not removing Trump does not make things any less democratic.
It's doom-saying hyperbole because they neither exercise complete power nor have elections ceased.
How is that part of any democratic-process?
Because he more or less is. That's the problem with our system of checks and balances; it relies on tacit discouragement rather than physical deterrence.
There is one and only one restriction on what the President can do: Congressional impeachment. The rules were written that if Congress dislikes the President for any reason whatsoever, even if they just think his hair looks stupid, they can fire him. But the tradeoff is that the one and only consequence the President can suffer is being fired.
This is why Presidential elections are so important. As long as even one chamber of Congress is willing to smile and nod and go, "It's a good thing that you did that, Mr. President," then POTUS is functionally above the law. He can only be impeached and removed, and if Congress isn't willing to both impeach and remove, then nothing else can actually be done to punish him for ill behavior.
Our republic was founded by idiots and assholes for the purpose of preserving white wealthy men's supremacy over the country. Trump embodies everything wrong with the system that they created. Turning it into a functioning democracy is an uphill battle that we are still fighting to this day.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 31st 2020 at 9:13:34 AM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska) is a 'no' for further witnesses
, making it 49 Yays (Collins and Romney with the 47 Democrats and 2 Democratic-Independents) to 51 Nays (All Republican).
Of all the people to vote No, I can't believe its Murkowski. We're not even going to hit 50 and it's probably because she's afraid of Chief Justice Roberts deciding to break the tie (one way or the other).
There are no reasonable Republicans. Collins and Romney were the two who were given permission to vote No by Mc Connell, I'll betcha.
Oh well. He's still impeached forever, and Pelosi can always introduce more articles.
Doomsaying is getting old. I'm taking a break from political news for a while and just focusing on voting in November.
The hardest thing in this world is to live in it.You could put that energy towards phone banking. Just a suggestion.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
