TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

LegalEagle

Go To

I just discovered this person on YouTube, member name is LegalEagle (real first name is Devin) who is a real life lawyer, and has been doing videos discussing the accuracies (or mistakes) TV shows or movies make when featuring real legal matters.

He already has many videos up, but this video is a good starting point, where he discusses the infamous series finale to Seinfeld.


Mod Note

There is a forum-wide ban on discussing US politics, which remains in place as long at the dedicated US Politics thread is locked.

If a new episode goes back onto that subject (or any of the other banned topics) then you are not allowed to discuss it. You can discuss any video about anything else, just not related to US politics.

If this becomes a problem, posts will be thumped and there may be further consequences.

We've already had to lock this thread once. If we have to lock it again, it's likely to remain locked for a very long time — and may not get unlocked at all. We'd really like to avoid that.

Edited by kory on Sep 22nd 2024 at 9:15:19 AM

CompletelyNormalGuy Am I a weirdo? from a place where folks put cream cheese on hot dogs (Oldest One in the Book)
Am I a weirdo?
#976: Sep 28th 2023 at 2:23:50 PM

Something tells me he graded on a curve.

Bigotry will NEVER be welcome on TV Tropes.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#977: Sep 28th 2023 at 4:53:46 PM

Perhaps the gap coincided with him becoming president? Suddenly becoming so high profile and controversial may have scared away even the mediocre lawyers.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Krory Since: Aug, 2012
#978: Sep 28th 2023 at 5:23:09 PM

He lost his fixers. He's had a reputation for stiffing people for decades, but his law team were direct employees until they all abandoned ship during his presidency.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#979: Sep 28th 2023 at 5:34:13 PM

Trump is apparently willing to pay (or at least offer) top dollar to get attorneys to work for him, and the ones we don't see mugging in front of the cameras seem much more likely to be at least marginally competent. They keep their heads down and do their jobs.

Edited by Fighteer on Sep 28th 2023 at 8:34:34 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#980: Sep 29th 2023 at 6:37:13 AM

Well, it's sort of a thing where the top-dollar lawyers are the ones smart enough to be paid in advance.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#981: Sep 29th 2023 at 10:05:37 AM

After watching the video, I decided that the tiers meant the following:

  • S = Sufficient (none)
  • A = Amiss (4)
  • B = Base (2)
  • C = Calamitous (originally five, all bar one are gone)
  • D = Dreadful (none)
  • E = Execrable (none)
  • F = Frightening (10)


On a serious note, they seem to be:

  • S: Psyche! There is no S-Tier.
  • A: Excellent lawyers who have something very slightly off about them. Examples include an otherwise-respected lawyer being hired for areas outside their experience (Blanche) to those who have recently been castigated by judges for their performance in court (Kise). Even Nicheles has been called out in court for attempting to use stricken testimony during closing arguments (the Trump Organisation trial). Trump has four of these.
  • B: TV hounds who use their publicity to misrepresent legal arguments in order to make political attacks. Trump has two of these.
  • C: Lawyers who will misrepresent the law and facts not just on television, but even in court or communications to other legal professionals, resulting in them taking sometimes weird positions. Three of these have now left Trump's team, one has stood down because he's been forced by Jack Smith to become a witness against Trump, so there's just one lawyer left at this tier.
  • D & E: Psyche! There are no D & E Tiers!
  • F: Lawyers who make things up no matter how weird, falsified or insane their statements or actions end up being. At best, their filings get thrown out of court; at worst, they're facing being disbarred, and somewhere in between, some of them get heavily fined for wasting court time and change careers. Many of them have been indicted and/or charged. There are ten lawyers here.
  • Hidden Bonus Tier: For the one lawyer who isn't currently retained by Trump, yet acts like he is, claims to be a Democrat while inventing legal standards to portray the Democrats as hounding Trump... and regularly engages in gaslighting to try and convince people that Trump has won the cases he's lost. For comparison, Rudy made it to F-Tier.


Wait, did I say this was a serious note?

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 29th 2023 at 6:17:12 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#982: Sep 29th 2023 at 11:12:36 AM

I was just going to ask where Rudy landed. Which category would there be for lawyers like him who seem to do more damage than good to their cases?

I wonder where Jack Thompson would be on that list, with all his weird courtroom antics.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#983: Sep 29th 2023 at 11:16:51 AM

I feel like any lawyers who do more harm for their case than good should automatically be F tier tops.

Edited by Weirdguy149 on Sep 29th 2023 at 2:23:25 PM

The legend has returned.
diddyknux (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#984: Sep 29th 2023 at 11:22:23 AM

Normally they would be, but Trump lawyers have literally gotten sanctions, disbarments, and indicted on charges themselves, so... A special brand of shit.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#985: Sep 29th 2023 at 11:40:32 AM

Well, I mean in general, not just for Trump lawyers.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#986: Sep 29th 2023 at 3:32:49 PM

I was just going to ask where Rudy landed. Which category would there be for lawyers like him who seem to do more damage than good to their cases?

That begins at C-tier, but is off-the-wall crazy at F-tier.

You have to remember this is a sliding scale of "terrible lawyers", so even A-tier is on the "bad lawyer" list, they're just the least bad, and closest to normal, of the entire scale. If anything they seem to be either good lawyers assigned to the wrong areas for their expertise (because Trump) or genuinely brilliant lawyers who fight dirty in court (which Trump loves).

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 29th 2023 at 11:36:19 AM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#987: Sep 29th 2023 at 4:09:44 PM

so even A-tier is on the "bad lawyer" list

Not really true, Devin has genuine praise for two of the A tier lawyers. Chris Kise and Susan Necheles (the later he even points out is highly respected in NY for her work as a criminal defense lawyer) while he points out the former was basically banished for being competent and honest.

Edited by Ghilz on Sep 29th 2023 at 7:11:14 AM

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#988: Sep 29th 2023 at 5:01:54 PM

Yes, he both praised them and made it clear at different points of the video that the entire scale was about bad lawyers, even if things get truly bad from B-tier onwards. He praised the A-tier lawyers but didn't make them S-tier. That discrepancy made me curious, so I researched them to find out how praised lawyers ended up below S-tier on a bad lawyers list.

It was by researching them that I found the A-tier cons, which range from well-respected lawyers being forced by Trump to work on areas outside their normal expertise to well-respected lawyers that have a history of fighting dirty enough in court for the judges to call it out.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 29th 2023 at 1:09:16 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#989: Sep 29th 2023 at 5:13:28 PM

Oh I see, so it's not a general tier system.

Does that imply though that the Trumps never had excellent lawyers, even in the time of Fred Trump?

Edited by Redmess on Sep 29th 2023 at 2:14:15 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
terumokou Pitiable and Illegally Dumped Object from In a bamboo forest full of bunnies, California Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Mu
Pitiable and Illegally Dumped Object
#990: Sep 30th 2023 at 9:31:49 PM

Devin does a breakdown on the Bob Menendez corruption charges, how it might be harder to pin him down with public corruption no thanks to the Supreme Court making it harder to pin people down with charges of public corruption, and the various event leading up to the charges.

Burning love!
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#991: Oct 1st 2023 at 4:10:58 AM

Does that imply though that the Trumps never had excellent lawyers, even in the time of Fred Trump?

I don't think so. I mean, Trump does have some excellent lawyers. The A-tier lawyers are considered excellent lawyers — some are among the top lawyers in the country for their areas of expertise. It's just that Trump either has a habit of forcing excellent lawyers to work on things that are outside their areas of expertise or he likes highly aggressive lawyers who are willing to play dirty in court on his behalf.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#992: Oct 1st 2023 at 4:16:29 AM

[up]

Good lawyers also tend to be well aware of what could blow up in their faces and potentially get them disbarred, so they're unlikely to heed Trump's... more questionable requests.

Hence Trump having to rely on a bunch of unhinged goons to deal with the latter.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Oct 1st 2023 at 1:16:46 PM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#993: Oct 1st 2023 at 4:18:31 AM

Well, I'm talking about Trump early in his career, in the 70s.

So if A tier is already excellent, what would S tier be?

And why is there a gap between C and F?

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
achilles_heel Since: Oct, 2013
#994: Oct 1st 2023 at 9:03:13 AM

[up]x6 - right, and I think he even delineates between the A-tier lawyers that Trump currently has on payroll and "powerhouse conservative firms like Jones Day [who served as counsel for Trump's '16 and '20 campaigns] and Kirkland & Ellis."

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#995: Oct 1st 2023 at 10:49:01 AM

Man, that's a pretty big corruption scandal for the Democrats.

Edited by Redmess on Oct 1st 2023 at 7:50:11 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#996: Oct 1st 2023 at 10:55:14 AM

It's a scandal for Mendendez, certainly. It would attach to Democrats if they chose to back him instead of insisting that he resign and/or be prosecuted.

I would like to think that nobody has ever tried to suggest that Democratic politicians are incapable of corruption; even a cursory inspection of the records would show this to be false. The difference is that Democrats, at least in public, support efforts to clean their own house; while Republicans circle the wagons.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#997: Oct 1st 2023 at 10:56:43 AM

As Devin points out, they did back him before there was a Democrat governor to make sure his replacement is also a democrat.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#998: Oct 1st 2023 at 10:59:26 AM

Fair enough. It's also true that the conservative Supreme Court has systematically made it harder to prosecute politicians for corruption by tightening the standards on what is considered an "official act".

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#999: Oct 2nd 2023 at 3:49:45 PM

On the earlier topic of Trump's F tier Lawyers, seems one of them (who brought a gaming laptop with glowing LED keyboard to the court), forgot to check the form where you request a Jury trial in New York.

Edited by Ghilz on Oct 2nd 2023 at 6:51:29 AM

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#1000: Oct 2nd 2023 at 4:33:03 PM

What's wrong with a laptop with LED keyboard? It's very handy in dark environments or places with poor lighting.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times

Total posts: 3,348
Top