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Complaining (single-prop crowner 8/27/19): Yoko Oh No

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MsRandom303 Ms. from Boston Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
Ms.
#1: Aug 13th 2019 at 7:05:52 PM

This trope attracts complaining about real fans and real celebrity significant others, and that is what has become of it. This website has rules against complaining about real people- and for good reason. Complaining about any real person is asking for flame wars. If the trope can be saved at all (and I'm not sure it can), major changes are necessary to keep this website a flame-free environment. My doubts that this trope can be saved are so strong that I actually requested that it be cut, but my request got rejected. So I guess we can try to save it. I could be right about that. But I could be wrong.

Edited by MsRandom303 on Aug 13th 2019 at 10:26:07 AM

Berrenta Bejeweled (she/her) (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Bejeweled (she/her)
#2: Aug 14th 2019 at 7:37:00 AM

Opening.

I'm thinking one way we can save this is to make this No Real Life Examples, Please!, since fictional examples are listed.

GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#3: Aug 14th 2019 at 7:47:29 AM

[up][up]I think making this NRLEP is all that's really necessary, unless the you have evidence that in-universe examples are also causing problems. Cutting is too drastic since there are plenty of fictional examples.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 14th 2019 at 9:53:00 AM

I got a rock for Halloween.
bitemytail Since: Dec, 2011
#4: Aug 14th 2019 at 7:50:25 AM

I agree with making NRLEP.

Edit: IUEO is also fine.

Edited by bitemytail on Aug 15th 2019 at 10:46:18 AM

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#5: Aug 14th 2019 at 8:08:36 AM

I lean towards making it In Universe Examples Only, which I feel differs from NRLEP since there are plenty of In-Universe examples of real people (either as a discussed trope or in biopics).

Making it fully NRLEP seems a bit odd considering the trope is named after a real person, after all.

So yeah. IUEO and move to Main/ has my vote.

Edited by Larkmarn on Aug 14th 2019 at 11:10:06 AM

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Berrenta Bejeweled (she/her) (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Bejeweled (she/her)
#6: Aug 14th 2019 at 8:27:01 AM

I'd be fine with IUEO, too.

rjd1922 Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular, from the United States Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular,
#7: Aug 14th 2019 at 8:39:02 AM

[up][up]I don't think NRLEP means biopic examples are forbidden. Also, for the future OP, you can't just cutlist problematic trope pages; they need to go through TRS.

Edited by rjd1922 on Aug 14th 2019 at 10:42:31 AM

Keet cleanup
costanton11 Since: Mar, 2016
Brainulator9 Short-Term Projects herald from US Since: Aug, 2018 Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Short-Term Projects herald
#9: Aug 14th 2019 at 8:45:07 AM

I say both IUEO and NRLEP, since real life complaining have no place on a wiki about fiction. Of course, this means that the Trope Namer is no longer an accepted example. I don't know if this is grounds for a rename, though.

I will also say that works discussing real people is fine to add, since it's in the work.

Edited by Brainulator9 on Aug 14th 2019 at 11:47:17 AM

Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#10: Aug 14th 2019 at 9:30:17 AM

I suppose IUEO would work, too.

That said, I'm pretty sure rjd is correct in that examples from works based on real life do not count as real life examples for the purposes of NRLEP.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 15th 2019 at 11:21:04 AM

I got a rock for Halloween.
ADrago Since: Dec, 2015
#11: Aug 14th 2019 at 8:12:24 PM

Making this In-Universe Examples Only is a good idea to fix the troping real people problem.

Edited by ADrago on Aug 14th 2019 at 11:13:14 AM

Albert3105 Since: Jun, 2013
#12: Aug 15th 2019 at 10:41:34 AM

[tup] IUEO for the reasons Larkmarn said.

My two cents: "Troper/unknown amount of fans think(s) X ruined Y's career" examples should be gone while the more historical (i.e. cited by biographers, mainstream media, the couple in question, etc.) RL examples be kept.

Edited by Albert3105 on Aug 15th 2019 at 1:59:18 PM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#13: Aug 15th 2019 at 10:42:51 AM
rjd1922 Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular, from the United States Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular,
#14: Aug 15th 2019 at 1:31:08 PM

[up][up]How would making it IUEO allow the "historical" examples to be kept?

Keet cleanup
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#15: Aug 15th 2019 at 4:29:12 PM

The way I see it is, if the historical examples still come from works, then while they may technically be real-life, they're also In-Universe because it occurs within the reality of the work itself. Even if the work is about real-life, it's also a work, subject to bias, factual errors, and more. That'll make these examples "real life", but also in-universe, just as long as the work treats them as truth.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Adept (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#16: Aug 15th 2019 at 9:39:05 PM

[up]And I'm guessing that "work" means an officially published statement whose content goes through at least some semblance of screening? Should we use citations rule for this, similar to Unfortunate Implications?

Albert3105 Since: Jun, 2013
naturalironist from The Information Superhighway Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#19: Aug 16th 2019 at 10:58:39 AM

Me Too!

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#20: Aug 24th 2019 at 5:01:07 PM

Crowners are working again, so I made one.

I got a rock for Halloween.
nombretomado (Season 1) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#22: Aug 24th 2019 at 5:13:18 PM

Added a third option to account for the suggestion for historical real life examples.

I got a rock for Halloween.
AmourMitts Since: Jan, 2016
#23: Aug 24th 2019 at 9:40:41 PM

[tdown] I'm totally against restricting this to in-universe. Instead, we should permanently lock this page, start up a long-term cleanup thread for this trope (a la Complete Monster) and make all examples subject to the Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment.

MsRandom303 Ms. from Boston Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
Ms.
#24: Aug 25th 2019 at 2:01:23 PM

Perhaps the page needs a new name, too? Someone else brought that up. I think the big reason why I was so pessimistic was because the trope's very name came from a Real Life example.

Berrenta MOD Bejeweled (she/her) (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Bejeweled (she/her)
#25: Aug 27th 2019 at 7:37:37 AM

Calling in favor of not only IUEO, but also prohibiting real-life examples.

A rename does sound like a worthwhile option, so will single-prop to see what everyone thinks.

Edited by Berrenta on Aug 27th 2019 at 9:38:43 AM

PageAction: YokoOhNo
24th Aug '19 5:00:09 PM

Crown Description:

What should be done with Yoko Oh No? Option 1 is not mutually exclusive with options 2 and 3, but options 2 and 3 are mutually exclusive with each other.

Total posts: 46
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