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Jeffrey Epstein's death discussion

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Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#151: Aug 15th 2019 at 4:45:29 AM

No, but you'd assume all MCC 9-South cells are basically identical.

Again, the MCC has never had an in-cell suicide, and has only ever had one suicide outside a cell twenty years ago, despite their legendarily brutal treatment of their prisoners. If it was easy to commit suicide there, a lot more people would be doing so.

What's precedent ever done for us?
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#152: Aug 15th 2019 at 5:03:06 AM

Yeah. It's looking a lot like guards. Colour me not surprised.

Guys, you're making South African detention "services" look pro.

Edited by Euodiachloris on Aug 15th 2019 at 1:03:55 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#153: Aug 15th 2019 at 5:04:50 AM

The MCC has a long and sordid history of neglect, corruption, suicide attempts in the cells, successful suicide attempts in cells, etc.

Manhattan jail where Jeffrey Epstein died has long history of suicide, neglect

One of the main reasons it's such a shithole is because the top (and only) priority is making sure nobody in it escapes. And in that respect, the MCC has done its job.

Edited by M84 on Aug 15th 2019 at 8:05:59 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#154: Aug 15th 2019 at 5:05:32 AM

"Breaking your neck via hanging requires a drop, not just cutting off your airflow. From the video posted earlier, there was nothing in his cell high enough to let Epstein drop hard enough to break his neck - the noose needs to be supporting your entire body-weight, so it has to be higher than neck height when you're standing up even once it goes taut"

This is not precisely true. You can break the bones of and around the windpipe very easily from strangulation without needing to drop them. The hyoid can be broken from being throttled by someone's hands, and certainly from a garrote. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the injury that actually killed him — that sort of damage makes breathing difficult even after the garotte is slackened. Breaking your neck as in severing or fracturing the vertebral column requires much more force, but you don't need an injury of that magnitude to actually kill.

Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Aug 15th 2019 at 8:07:31 AM

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#155: Aug 15th 2019 at 5:13:31 AM

As per the reports currently being published, the broken bone in the neck was the hyoid. That bone would not require a “drop and a stop” to break, it can easily be broken during any type of strangulation.

Hanging doesn’t have to be vertical with the feet off the ground, as long as pressure can be placed on the neck to constrict airflow.

Given that we’re now hearing the guards who were supposed to be checking in every 30 minutes were actually asleep and falsified their memobooks to try and show otherwise, the incompetence theory seems to be more and more likely.

They should have sent a poet.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#156: Aug 15th 2019 at 5:24:44 AM

Guards literally sleeping on the job was one of my first thoughts as to how this happened.

I'm starting to think the screaming that was heard in the morning was the guards upon realizing they had fucked up.

It doesn't help that one of the guards wasn't actually trained to be one. And both were working overtime shifts.

Edited by M84 on Aug 15th 2019 at 8:30:21 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#157: Aug 15th 2019 at 1:28:41 PM

[up] Christ, how are those the guards that were chosen to watch over one of the most high profile detainees of the year?

Life is unfair...
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#158: Aug 15th 2019 at 3:21:25 PM

See above, re:

The MCC has a long and sordid history of neglect, corruption, suicide attempts in the cells, successful suicide attempts in cells, etc.

Someone earlier in this conversation called the place "a prison famous for deaths". I wouldn't be too quick to assume that these specific guards were the only people dropping the ball and everyone else is a top-notch employee.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#159: Aug 15th 2019 at 3:44:25 PM

It is staring to sound like Epstein was a dead man walking from the moment he was scheduled to go there.

Are there just not any US prisons that are competently run and good at keeping people alive? Because if there are why wasn’t he sent to one of them?

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#160: Aug 15th 2019 at 3:45:30 PM

Epstein was left alone with a young female visitor for two hours, shortly after being taken off suicide watch. Seems he was spending a lot of time hanging out with lawyers (up to eight hours a day), a number of whom were young, attractive, and not carrying any legal papers, and apparently this was a repeat of the last time he got arrested. Makes you wonder why he offed himself if he was getting daily poorly-disguised conjugal visits just like the last time he was in the slammer.

Edited by Iaculus on Aug 15th 2019 at 11:40:31 AM

What's precedent ever done for us?
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#161: Aug 15th 2019 at 6:29:41 PM

Because the time not spent in that room was bad. And a preview of what he could very well be facing for the rest of his life.

Though I suppose Epstein monopolizing a valuable resource like time in that room would have given other detainees in MCC more motive to hurt him.

Epstein’s daily occupation of the room in the SHU was a sore point for attorneys trying to visit their clients. Instead of waiting 15 minutes for a room, the wait could stretch for two hours, as it was that day. “They wouldn't move anybody until he got where he was going, which is what they used to do with El Chapo, too,” the visiting attorney said. There are 12 attorney visiting rooms at MCC, but only two are for attorneys visiting SHU clients. That means Epstein was monopolizing a scarce resource.

Edited by M84 on Aug 15th 2019 at 9:30:53 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#162: Aug 16th 2019 at 3:16:44 AM

None of Epstein's visitors report signs of beatings or abuse (except whatever was going on with that suicide attempt), and it seems like an insanely risky thing to do when the next person he's having an hours-long visit from might be from his actual, expensive lawyers rather than an underage prostitute. Meanwhile, I have no idea what the fuck Ghislaine Maxwell thinks she's doing.

What's precedent ever done for us?
Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#163: Aug 16th 2019 at 6:21:48 AM

I'm not at all sure I believe that reveiw was posted by Gislane Maxwell. Maxwell is not a uncommon name and G is not an uncommon letter to start a name with. Not all of the details of the review match up either.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#164: Aug 16th 2019 at 7:11:48 AM

"He speculated the woman could be a lawyer—NBC News has reported that Epstein paid members of his team to sit with him in a room for eight hours a day for attorney-client meetings, allowing him to avoid his cell."

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#165: Aug 16th 2019 at 7:15:04 AM

He might not have even been doing anything illicit (though he probably did). He might have just hated being in his cell that much.

Disgusted, but not surprised
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#166: Aug 16th 2019 at 7:17:11 AM

It's not like he could force himself on anybody anymore, at his age and condition.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#167: Aug 16th 2019 at 7:36:21 AM

The woman was in there as a lawyer, but was much younger than his main team and wasn't carrying papers - which raises questions of what she planned to do for two hours.

As for that account, it seems to be real, and there's a lot of other weird coincidences in its history - one of its few other reviews is on a novel about an international sex slavery ring in 2016.

What's precedent ever done for us?
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#168: Aug 16th 2019 at 7:43:56 AM

Meanwhile, I have this vision of a poor legal aid, who went to visit Epstein one day to talk to him about some boring legal stuff, and who now everyone speculates was an underage prostitute. Think I'l lay low if I were her.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#169: Aug 16th 2019 at 7:53:40 AM

[up]Yeah. Nobody is going to listen to "the review documentation was on my iPad, since nothing had to be signed" as an explanation.

Also, if I were her, I'd start asking very expensive questions as to why she's been forced into this position by the firm, anyway. Cough up, HR.

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#171: Aug 16th 2019 at 2:09:57 PM

Sexual blackmail has been a standard intelligence tactic since intelligence agencies were invented. Everybody has used them.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#172: Aug 16th 2019 at 2:32:44 PM

Jeffrey Epstein Autopsy Results Show He Hanged Himself in Suicide.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#173: Aug 16th 2019 at 4:46:25 PM

[up][up]We've got the Honey Trap trope for a reason, after all.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#174: Aug 16th 2019 at 5:23:57 PM

He broke multiple bones in his neck by... kneeling really hard? Seriously? Just what kind of explosive leg strength did this guy have? This is literally how an inept Bungled Suicide in Orange Is the New Black played out last month.

Be honest, if this happened in a Russian prison, would anyone believe a single word of this shit?

Edited by Iaculus on Aug 16th 2019 at 1:16:05 PM

What's precedent ever done for us?
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#175: Aug 16th 2019 at 6:24:06 PM

The expert who pointed out that a hyoid fracture could be associated with strangulation also pointed out that such a fracture is more common with increasing age. So at Epstein's age, it may not have been too hard.

A young man might have struggled to break his own neck this way. But Epstein was not young anymore.

Edited by M84 on Aug 16th 2019 at 9:25:02 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised

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