LGBTQ Representation in Anime/Manga

Shh, no spoilers, I'm only at volume 22 >.<

Yeah, hence why it's not very helpful.

I was reading a translated 2016 interview of Sound! Euphonium and it's interesting to note how anime directors view Queer Romance and what's seen as Bait-and-Switch Lesbians.

One scene has a very romantic-seeming scene between the lead and her female friend. According to the interview, it was intentionally so. It was written as a adolescent "first love" scenario and Kumiko was depicted like "a young boy falling in love one summer". It's mentioned that it was storyboarded by a woman and the interviewer says "it felt like I was watching a real yuri work for the first time", because it's not male gazey.

...But it's not gay. To quote "I don't think that's depicted as yuri. I wanted to depict adolescence".

Edited by Pichu-kun on Feb 12th 2020 at 4:50:08 AM

Sounds too much like that "Lesbianism is a phase and girls will eventually move on to boys" bullshit for my comfort.

I think the intention of that statement is supposed to be "I wanted to depict something realistic, instead of going with stock Yuri tropes". Just worded badly.

The way the interview put it, I interpreted it as the two supposed to be having romantic-like feelings but not romantic feelings. It's a quasi-romantic friendship, a "Romantic" Two-Girl Friendship instead of genuinely being in love.

Oguro: But you don't think of it as yuri, Yamada-san?

Yamada: That's right. (...) Okay. So I'll say it clearly: I don't think that's depicted as yuri. I wanted to depict adolescence.

Edited by Pichu-kun on Feb 12th 2020 at 4:52:55 AM

Reading through the interview they keep praising the realism of the scenes and repeatedly associate "Yuri" with fluff and male-oriented fanservice, so I think Yamada is pushing against that, instead of saying it isn't gay.

Probably shouldn't have adapted a work where the girls in question end up with dudes then

Um... sorry troper who mentioned Rose of Versailles, but Oscar does not fall in love with Marie Antoinette.

I believe the only same-sex romance in RoV is some girls crushing on Oscar.

Rosalie was out and out in love with Oscar...and doesnt die at the end! YAY!

(x5) Nothing ever came out of Kumiko/Reina, nevertheless. The series avoided anything undeniably romantic and instead pushed their interest in boys.

I skipped out on Hibike since it didn't seem like Kumiko x Reina would actually be a thing.

Though I am glad someone got the voice actresses to act out romantic scenes between the two characters, with this one (taking place during a study session) being a personal favorite. Which also inspired an online artist I like to make a small comic based off of it.

Watching Hibike for romance alone isn't something I'd suggest. It's an anime about kids in a band club over anything.

Which was one reason I didn't really plan on seeing the anime, since "kids in a band" isn't something that really appeals to me. If the story really did have Kumiko and Reina hook up at the end, I might've considered viewing it; alas, apparently they don't.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Feb 13th 2020 at 3:27:54 AM

I liked the premise of SE, but I found it focused too much on the band practicing and the inner-band drama. In comparison, Kids on the Slope and Your Lie in April were more musical. So, the draw to me was Kumirei... which is probably why season 2 is such a strain to watch. Reina's characterization was botched.

Edited by Pichu-kun on Feb 13th 2020 at 2:36:32 AM

Was she actually or was she more...manga accurate?

It's hard finding info on the books but from I can tell, kind of. In the books, Reina and Shuichi are of similar importance, but season 1 of the anime Demoted to Extra Shuichi and gave Reina more screentime. Reina mentions a crush on Taki-sensei but it almost never comes up otherwise. Season 2 of the anime has Reina gush over Taki.

That seems like it'd be over-correction?

I mean I'm saying "seems like"...but only because I don't remember it.

I've heard some people debate that trans characters are treated worse in anime nowadays, compared to the 1980s and 1990s. Trying to appeal towards moe and Otokonoko Genre/Wholesome Crossdresser fans means that trans characters get caught up in the mess. At best, it leads to Ambiguous Gender Identity and Trans Equals Gay debates (just look at the issue with Ferris).

I wonder how the translation to Love Me As I Am will deal with the term "otokonoko". There's no English equivalent and I know, with fan translations at least, "girlyboy" confuses people (and gives off a transphobic impression).

It does seem like "trans" in manga and anime usually means "cute transgirl"… I don't know if it was better before though… Is Hibari in Stop Hibari Kun considered trans or just a crossdresser? I haven't read that one yet…

Is the argument by trans or cis people? Because if the latter then it sounds like the argument is in really bad faith.

Hibari is transgender. The writer wanted her to be a crossdresser but accidentally (?) wrote a trans girl.

Looking at trans characters in anime, I don't know if it's "cute trans girl". "Cute crossdresser" is a trope, but actually trans characters don't seem to usually be cute.

Trans people.

Edited by Pichu-kun on Feb 21st 2020 at 8:02:11 AM

It's actually not that unusual (from what I've seen) for trans themed manga to also have otonoko characters who just like crossdressing and being cute, so that they can explain the difference from actual trans girls.

That's the case in Love Me As I Am, which has a number of characters across the spectrum, including (I think) two crossdressers, one of whom is gay and has a boyfriend and one who I think is straight (he hasn't gotten a lot of story focus yet, so I don't recall). But since the focus character is a complete newcomer, the cafe staff take the time to educate him (and the reader).

On the topic of Euphonium, yeah, put me down as someone else who considers it blatant queerbaiting. "Depicting adolescence" my ass. It's almost as bad as Hanasaku Iroha, which is also incredibly blatant about using the same bait-and-switch.

Edited by RedSavant on Feb 20th 2020 at 2:10:41 PM

There was a similar discourse in latest Fire Emblem game; after finally adding more same-sex options for romance...most of those same sex options just ended up being female. So the developers were accused of fetishizing since Girl on Girl Is Hot given the comparatively lower same-sex options for male characters.

It got even worse as there are two male characters who were thought to be romanceable, but ended up completely platonic (The characters in question even have families of their own) and the male character just marries a random village woman offscreen.