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This is a thread to discuss those Administrivia pages in need of a little updating- you know the ones. The ones that still cite rules we've long since changed, or the ones that don't properly cite our current standards. Some of them are even scattered in Main/!

So, this is the place to take those pages and fix them up with the help of the community.

For a list of current projects, see Outdated Administrivia Pages.

Note: This thread is not for asking mods to make one-off edits to Locked Pages, Administrivia-related or otherwise, such as requesting additions to an Example Sectionectomy index. Please use this thread for that.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 21st 2023 at 9:12:02 AM

MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#2426: Apr 14th 2023 at 9:55:40 PM

Maybe like this:

  • Green link: A working link to a disambiguation page. Disambiguation pages can't have links anywhere on the site except for archive pages and the Ambiguity Index so they are colored green so that they can be differentiated from blue links. Blue links used to appear as green in Night Vision mode so older references to the term maybe referring to those links.

Macron's notes
Malady (X-Troper)
#2427: Apr 14th 2023 at 9:59:31 PM

JustForFun.All Green Entry now exists, so the Administrivia not being a redirect there might be confusing now?

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#2428: Apr 14th 2023 at 10:00:52 PM

Administrivia doesn't redirect to either the blue, orange or red counterparts, so I don't see an issue.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000)
#2429: Apr 14th 2023 at 10:02:35 PM

Yeah, why would we have an Administrivia redirect to a joke page?

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Malady (X-Troper)
#2430: Apr 14th 2023 at 10:03:13 PM

Well, if no one's confused, then cut the redirect, yeah.

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#2431: Apr 14th 2023 at 10:54:30 PM

Can't we just make Administrivia.Green Link or Main.Green Link redirect to Ambiguity Index, and add new text to Ambiguity Index saying links are green? I'll go ahead and add the text about links being green; I'll defer to everyone else on the redirect idea.

I got a rock for Halloween.
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#2433: Apr 14th 2023 at 10:57:17 PM

I went with Main.Green Link. How does the text I added to Ambiguity Index look? Feel free to make further changes if I missed anything.

Edit: Here's what I added:

Since disambiguation pages are not meant to be linked to on pages other than this one (not counting archives, which can't be changed in any way), links to them will appear green to discourage the addition of links.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 14th 2023 at 12:58:32 PM

I got a rock for Halloween.
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#2434: Apr 14th 2023 at 11:01:25 PM

I don't think we need both Main and Administrivia redirects so what we have now is fine.

Macron's notes
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#2435: Apr 14th 2023 at 11:07:35 PM

I wasn't proposing using both namespaces (which is why I said "or" and not "and"). I always intended to just go with one and just wasn't sure which one to use at first, but ended up going with Main/.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 14th 2023 at 1:08:27 PM

I got a rock for Halloween.
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#2436: Apr 14th 2023 at 11:11:43 PM

Sorry, looks like I misread.

Macron's notes
Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#2437: Apr 20th 2023 at 3:05:53 PM

Following on from the post here - can we update The Bus Came Back guidance on No Recent Examples, Please! to reflect the fact that not all episodic works have seasons?


Current:

Proposed update: One year gap for episodic works without seasons, plus a little rephrasing.

  • The Bus Came Back: If a character wasn't explicitly written out, this needs an absence of one season for episodic works with seasons, one year for episodic works without seasons, or two sequels for non-episodic works. There's no such waiting period for characters who were explicitly Put on a Bus.

Does that look ok?

(This time gap restriction isn't currently listed on The Bus Came Back at all, only on the Administrivia page - but we'll add it there as well once the statement is agreed and finalised)

Thanks!

GastonRabbit MOD C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#2438: Apr 21st 2023 at 5:00:14 AM

~Mrph1 — Requests to update Example Sectionectomy indexes belong in the Locked Pages thread, not this one. I'll go ahead and update that entry, but please take such requests to the proper thread in the future.

I got a rock for Halloween.
Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#2439: Apr 21st 2023 at 5:17:54 AM

[up] Thanks!

Is it worth adding that signposting to the pinned post on this thread? I'd read it as covering all Administrivia content, and it doesn't cross-ref to the locked post thread.

GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#2440: Apr 21st 2023 at 7:11:04 PM

[up]Added this to the header:

Note: This thread is not for asking mods to make one-off edits to Locked Pages, Administrivia-related or otherwise, such as requesting additions to an Example Sectionectomy index. Please use this thread for that.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 21st 2023 at 9:12:10 AM

I got a rock for Halloween.
Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#2441: Apr 23rd 2023 at 11:28:17 AM

Following up on this ATT and some similar notifier/edit comments last year -

We draw a distinction between Potholes and more problematic Sinkholes, but we use "Chained Sinkhole" terminology to describe chained wikilinks for both of them. As a consequence, some tropers don't seem to realise that 'chained potholes' are also a problem.

  • There is nothing on the Pothole page to say that chaining valid potholes is a problem - should we add something?

  • In a similar vein, the chained sinkhole guidance is quite some way down the Sinkhole page, after the initial definition. Is there any appetite to put something in the intro paragraphs, so that tropers who are confident that they're using potholes don't stop reading after the initial sinkhole definition?

Does that sound worthwhile?

Edited by Mrph1 on Apr 24th 2023 at 10:24:47 AM

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#2442: Apr 23rd 2023 at 11:34:03 AM

"Chained sinkholes: These are when pot holes are chained with sinkhole characteristics."

I kinda haven't realized it says specifically that and believe most people don't either. I think the argument is still good and we can expand it to potholes. The page could also use some styling with headers.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
ilovewildkratts1 Local Odd Squad Connoisseur from a nice breezy expansive meadow (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Local Odd Squad Connoisseur
#2443: Apr 23rd 2023 at 1:49:36 PM

Following experience in seeing many a bareboned TLP draft where sponsors don't understand how TLP works and/or are new to TLP, I'm wondering if a section can be added in that shows a recommended course of action tropers can take prior to coming to TLP. For me, I find it's a good method to use when making TLP drafts and I feel it can help out other tropers as well who aren't so familiar with TLP but have an idea in mind.

This would include:

- Going to Trope Finder to see if the concept already exists.

- If it does (or if no response is given), going to the Trope Idea Sounding Board to flesh out the idea with other tropers, gather examples, and make it a standout from other tropes that tackle the same or similar concepts. This bullet point could also tackle what to do if your idea is ignored — that is to say, when to bump your query in a way that doesn't make you come off as pestering other tropers to come look at it.

- Making a sandbox for your draft, where you can tweak it as you see fit in accordance with the already-existing Guidelines — adding examples, making sure spelling and grammar are in order, etc.

- And finally, putting it on TLP, which is already explained.

I feel many sponsors do read TLP Guidelines after being encouraged to do so by others, and many work to improve their draft before it accumulates too many bombs, but Trope Finder and TISB are there for a reason and it would be nice if they were pushed a bit more in the article as valuable resources.

Edited by ilovewildkratts1 on Apr 23rd 2023 at 1:50:08 AM

Wuewuewuewuewueing my way to the bank.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000)
#2444: Apr 23rd 2023 at 7:12:45 PM

I think we already have that...

Edit: Yes, it's the "Before You Begin" folder.

Edited by WarJay77 on Apr 23rd 2023 at 10:13:19 AM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
ilovewildkratts1 Local Odd Squad Connoisseur from a nice breezy expansive meadow (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Local Odd Squad Connoisseur
#2445: Apr 23rd 2023 at 7:48:09 PM

Ah, you're right. I see TISB is mentioned there as well. Completely missed that.

Edited by ilovewildkratts1 on Apr 23rd 2023 at 7:48:24 AM

Wuewuewuewuewueing my way to the bank.
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#2446: Apr 24th 2023 at 5:40:18 AM
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#2447: Apr 24th 2023 at 1:21:48 PM

So, should How to Pick a Good Image be appended to not photoshop work pages? I don't mind, but this is my first time hearing this argument.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Theriocephalus Amateur Veteran from gimme a map and a moment and I can tell you Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Amateur Veteran
#2448: Apr 24th 2023 at 1:54:49 PM

[tup]Expanding Chained Sinkholes to also include chained potholes.

[up]I'm inclined to say that no, work page images should not be photoshopped. It seems logical to me that we should defer to how the work's creators want to present or advertise it.

Edited by Theriocephalus on Apr 24th 2023 at 3:57:47 AM

GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#2449: Apr 25th 2023 at 11:54:44 AM

I edited Administrivia.Sinkhole to use header markup for the sections (as previously suggested), but what other changes need to be made? Tabs already changed the Pothole page to account for the fact that potholes shouldn't be next to each other (but apparently forgot to mention it here), but I can't think of any changes to be made to the Sinkhole page since it already seems to get the point across.

Edit: OK, I did find something to change:

Old text:

These are when pot holes are chained with sinkhole characteristics. There's only one sentence, but many pages linked to. Instead of proper structuring, careless editors divide the sentence to equal parts and link each part to the articles. That way we'll get a mess that turns nearly the entire sentence blue like this:

New text:

These are when potholes are chained with sinkhole characteristics. There's only one sentence, but many pages linked to. Instead of proper structuring, careless editors divide the sentence into multiple parts and link adjacent parts to separate articles. That way we'll get a mess that turns an unnecessary amount of text blue like this:

I feel like the "equal parts" part of the old text made the policy sound more lenient than it actually is, hence changing it to "multiple parts", and I changed "each part to the articles" to "adjacent parts to separate articles" because the latter more accurately describes what makes them count as chained.

Another edit: Further changed "nearly the entire sentence" to "an unnecessary amount of text" for roughly the same reason I changed "equal parts" to "multiple parts", that being that how proportionate the pothole usage is is irrelevant when it comes to what counts as a chained sinkhole.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 25th 2023 at 2:47:40 PM

I got a rock for Halloween.
Noaqiyeum we must dissent (it/they) from across the gulf of space (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
we must dissent (it/they)
#2450: Apr 26th 2023 at 12:13:24 AM

I'm inclined to say that no, work page images should not be photoshopped. It seems logical to me that we should defer to how the work's creators want to present or advertise it.

The rare exception I can think of would be to remove an online bookseller's logo or badly-positioned award sticker or something like that.

ERROR: The current state of the world is unacceptable. Save anyway? YES/NO

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