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It'd be a good test case.
Sure, let's use that as a test case.
Go ahead with the test case.
I'd like to address a few things while I'm on here. There's been some good points raised, and I feel like the mod actions taken haven't provided a lot of clarity, where some is desperately needed:
Anyway - there appears to be rather a gaping wound in the last few pages, and I hope that addresses some of it. The matter suspension I will refer to the Appeal to the moderation/suspension thread, as another mod did that piece.
Edited by nombretomado on Sep 19th 2019 at 5:12:02 AM
I was the one who initially proposed using separate folders for demo versions of unreleased games on pages 45 and 46 of the cleanup thread. High Crate counter-argued that it was a bad idea, because once the work comes out, people could just delete the folder markup without verifying whether or not it actually applies to the full game. I'm not fully convinced by this argument, since they could do the same with the citations (HighCrate claims that this is less likely since you'd have to manually go through each example, which is more effort, but I'm not sure that this would actually deter people).
I'm reading it over, I genuinely don't get their argument when it comes to the assumption that people would just use folders as a free-reign to just post speculation and shoehorns. We'd keep the same standards we do when determining if an example is speculation, just without worrying about if the example says "in the trailer" 5 gazillion times.
Furthermore, I think it's more likely people would just outright delete the folder itself, rather than the markup. After all, deleting the markup would also cause issues with alphabetization, potentially duplicated examples, and just garbage formatting in general. It'd also be easy to tell where the folder began and ended, as the alphabetization would reset when it came to the real examples.
I mean, if everyone is truly as lazy as HC said they were, nobody would bother to fix those things after deleting the folder markup, so if it does happen, it'd be an easy catch. Or, well, we could just check the history...or delete any obviously not-happening-in-the-final-product examples after the fact. I think there's a lot of obvious solutions HC didn't consider.
In other words, let's go forward with the test case.
Going forward with the test case sounds good to me. More or less, Warjay covered the issues.
I don't know whether it's the right place to ask but what about ongoing works?
Kamen Rider Zero-One is currently on its third episode yet lots of people trope about upcoming episodes and characters who haven't been introduced yet. I deleted those, but some restored them latter with percentage signs. Someone asked me if that was koshere.
I think it's not kosher. We don't trope leaked content in itself. If there's trailers with the characters, and we can make a context example, they would make sense to be in an "unreleased information" folder of sorts, much like the folder we talked about earlier
To clarify something else related, recap pages for episodes not properly released are straight out not allowed(besides that, they're spoilers off).
That's Episodic Troping. There's a thread for that...which I'd link, if you hadn't already posted there.
Edit: Nevermind; ninja'd by Warjay so there's no good reason to go into leak and pre-emptive commenting rules here.
Edited by DragonRanger on Sep 20th 2019 at 2:20:52 AM
I know but the Episodic Troping thread isn't very active...
I took my views on which stuff is okay to include and posted them in the Episodic thread instead, but to answer another of your questions:
For adding early examples in comments, it's a fairly new rule (or at least, new to me) that that's not allowed. Items can be commented-out after the fact if there's a problem, but they shouldn't start that way.
I'll just say this now.
I honestly believe that HighCrate was acting in good faith the entire time. His interpretation of the rules is strict, but reasonable, and it's a shame he has to be suspended when he's done such good work for us. Most of the time, I feel I agree with his statements. That said, I also feel that the folder idea makes perfect sense, especially with WarJay77's reasoning listed above.
Perhaps I should go to Google Docs and write a page like this to collect arguments over this thing.
This would probably be better in the Appeal To The Moderation thread.
Just for the record, I also think HC was acting in good faith- just that their efforts made things harder for others, as their stricter interpretation of the rules caused a lot of friction, as did their general stubbornness. That's all.
Hi everybody - I know there's a lot of overlap going on, but please refrain from making this thread about a single troper. You can make comments in the appeal to moderation thread; or, if you'd like to have a one-on-one private conversation with a mod, you can PM. Or you could even holler and make your case there. Thanks again.
Where's the appeal to moderation thread?
Here, but I personally believe HighCrate has caused so much drama that he should stay out of unreleased work page cleanup, even if he had good intentions.
Oh I completely agree, I just had no idea that thread existed and wanted to know where it was.
Sorry for the double post, but I've converted The Addams Family (2019) into a test-run page. Apologies as well for the delay.
Oh, and does anyone have a link to the official wording that adding pre-commented out tropes is a no-no? Saw a troper doing it and I was going to send them a PM, but I don't actually know what to cite for the rule.
Edited by Crossover-Enthusiast on Sep 27th 2019 at 6:57:45 AM
It's frowned upon and we all agree it's bad, but I don't think there's an actual rule.
It's one of those things where we might not have thought an actual rule was necessary.
Generally, it's not that helpful for us, since a lot of people might not have access to the actual pre-released work.
It might be helpful on a page for an already released work, because the trope may fit but you aren't sure of how yet(and even then, there's better ways than doing that). Commenting out a poor example is far from the same thing as throwing it in. At that point, why not use the Wiki Sandbox variant of the page or make your own text file to slowly work on it?
But yeah, it's not a hard rule at all. There's nothing to cite. I would argue that it shouldn't be done for pre-release works, though, since only the people who seen the work at that point can work with the commented out trope. It just wastes space that many can't do anything with. I mean, I wouldn't say it's such a space waster it'd affect the wiki either, but still.
Technically only an unreleased half-episode, but the first 12 minutes of RWBY Volume 7 were just unexpectedly released at NYCC, 37 days before the public release.
I assume we're still waiting for November 9 to actually trope this material?
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How well does it match the trope?