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Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment (ROCEJ): Violations, misuse, and other issues

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The Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment exists to prevent tropers from making agenda-based edits or bringing up irrelevant controversial issues, but it's not always obvious if something breaks the rule or not. This thread serves the purposes of:

  • Getting consensus on cutting overly controversial edits.
  • Rewriting biased examples to be more neutral.
  • Pre-emptively clarifying if a possible example actually violates the rule, or if it's okay to add.
  • Making sure that the rule isn't just being used as an excuse to write a Zero-Context Example ("Some people think that X is Y, and that's all we have to say about it.")

Notes regarding edits related to current political figures

  • Current political figures should not be a subject of any trope example on the wiki, except when they meet all three of the following criteria:
    • When the work in question specifically mentions the real life individual.
    • When the entirety of the example has to do with the portrayal of that individual in the work.
    • When the work is fictional.
  • Alternatively, when a current political figure has a creative role themselves, such as writing or acting in a work, we give them no more nor less treatment then we would any other creator.
  • Additionally, please make sure to take out any examples of Harsher in Hindsight or Hilarious in Hindsight regarding current political figures. A political event that may be seen positively by some people may be seen negatively by others.

Other relevant threads and pages

Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 19th 2024 at 12:40:14 PM

DustSnitch Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#2326: May 12th 2022 at 5:27:22 PM

Something like that seems like an okay policy to have in general, but I don't think the solution to the Eldritch Abomination thing is to cut the whole sub-page. Those pages haven't been a site of flame wars or anything in the nine years I've been on this site, they're key to understanding later examples of this trope that borrow from stories like Zeus' vow to Semele, and religious examples of this trope are some of the most well-known and illustrative examples of this trope in culture (think the "biblically-accurate angels" meme).

The Abrahamic God section at the beginning is super long, but most of it is about how God is presented as incomprehensible or unknown in those religions and their many, many texts. I think everything after "a force to be reckoned with" and before "A related postulation is that His true form" should be cut for not describing anything particularly eldritch or incomprehensible. The rest seems fine at a glance.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#2327: May 12th 2022 at 5:31:35 PM

Admittedly, God being without physical form is a major tenet of my religion, so I'll give you that.

By the way, I have started constructing Sandbox.Administrivia Religious And Mythological Example Restrictions.

Edited by SkyCat32 on May 12th 2022 at 9:46:36 AM

underCoverSailsman Peeks from Under Rocks from State of Flux Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Peeks from Under Rocks
#2328: May 12th 2022 at 10:08:27 PM

I'm a bit concerned about this paragraph on Fanfic.A Thing Of Vikings:

  • It used to be on fanfiction.net, but due to harassment up to and including death threats, it has been deleted and access has been restricted on Archive of Our Own. The restriction was lifted for a time, but after additional Trumpist harassment, the story is locked down for registered AO 3 members only again as of January 2022.

That later sentence feels unnecessarily politically charged to me. I'm also wondering if the bit about the history on FF.net would be a form of drama importation?

For clarity, "Access restricted" in this case means "Ability to comment is limited to registered users." Anyone can browse and read the fic.

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#2329: May 12th 2022 at 10:08:55 PM

[up][up]A policy change proposal like that feels like something you'd want a mod to weigh in on before drafting.

Edited by mightymewtron on May 12th 2022 at 1:09:15 PM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#2330: May 12th 2022 at 10:19:02 PM

I don't know how I feel about having ^^^ as a policy right now but I think it's better to make a Wiki Talk thread about it.

Macron's notes
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
KUnlimited Since: Sep, 2020
#2332: May 13th 2022 at 6:00:52 AM

[up][up][up][up] What does Trump even have to do with this fanfic?

Avatar by Butterscotch Arts. Used under license.
underCoverSailsman Peeks from Under Rocks from State of Flux Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Peeks from Under Rocks
#2333: May 13th 2022 at 6:52:28 AM

[up]I have no idea. I'm not even sure if the mentioned harassment had to do with the fic, or was just pointed at the author in general.

The pothole to Why Fandom Can't Have Nice Things also seems to assume that reading on AO3 is intrinsically a worse experience than FF.net. Overall, does this paragraph serve any purpose on the page?

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#2334: May 13th 2022 at 7:47:43 AM

I mean, I wouldn't say it's a worse reading experience, but "the standard commenting feature has been blocked because of bad actors" does fit the definition.

Edited by nrjxll on May 13th 2022 at 9:48:04 AM

AlmightyKingPrawn I can chase the wind, I can race the rain from Down at Fraggle Rock *clap clap* Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
I can chase the wind, I can race the rain
#2335: May 16th 2022 at 8:45:26 PM

Just letting you all know that I deleted a link to a Quartering video on YMMV.Cards Against Humanity, just in case I made a wrong call or more action needs to be taken.

She/her. Profile pic is by Richard Michael Gomez @StarmansArt. Please watch Fraggle Rock: Back to the Rock. https://youtu.be/Vm92JNgPbqk
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#2336: May 16th 2022 at 10:26:50 PM

Yeah that's no big loss, especially since it's a Broken Base entry and I can presume that that video is very much biased towards one side.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Piterpicher Veteran Editor IV from Poland, for real (Series 2) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Veteran Editor IV
#2337: May 17th 2022 at 1:37:00 AM

Agreed, though the edit reason should have probably been phrased less obnoxiously.

Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)
AlmightyKingPrawn I can chase the wind, I can race the rain from Down at Fraggle Rock *clap clap* Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
I can chase the wind, I can race the rain
#2338: May 17th 2022 at 9:01:34 AM

[up] sorry.

She/her. Profile pic is by Richard Michael Gomez @StarmansArt. Please watch Fraggle Rock: Back to the Rock. https://youtu.be/Vm92JNgPbqk
fragglelover Since: Jun, 2012
#2339: May 31st 2022 at 2:55:15 PM

This was added to OK K.O.! Let's Be Heroes S 1 E 47 Let's Not Be Skeletons:

  • Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped: The mass proliferation of deadly weapons is a terrible scourge on society and otherwise seemingly reasonable people will reflexively refuse any bare minimum of regulation in the name of so called freedoms.
  • Harsher in Hindsight: Both watching a crowd turn on K.O. for asking for regulations and cheery ending where the Congresswoman is able to legislate away the problem is brutal to watch knowing that someone who harassed children who advocate gun control would get elected to Congress after this episode aired

MrMediaGuy2 Since: Jun, 2015
#2340: May 31st 2022 at 3:02:18 PM

SANTBD got cut, so remove the first one.

Azorius24 Knight of Solace from the bonnie, bonnie banks o' Loch Lomond (Five Long Years) Relationship Status: love is a deadly lazer
Knight of Solace
#2341: Jun 1st 2022 at 2:47:35 AM

Have been adding consistent headers to some Black Mirror Recap pages and noticed this example for The Waldo Moment:

While Waldo is clearly a representation of trollish politicians in general, among whose numbers Boris certainly counts, there's no direct points of comparison besides that, so I would say this is a shoehorn.

Edited by Azorius24 on Jun 1st 2022 at 10:48:15 AM

"The only thing which is certain, is that something will happen".
bwburke94 I am mad scientist! It's so cool! from 1.048596% (Y2: Electric Boogaloo) Relationship Status: She does the things you do, but she is an IBM
I am mad scientist! It's so cool!
#2342: Jun 1st 2022 at 3:34:58 AM

[up] This might need to go to the fact checking thread, because the question is whether Waldo was actually based on Boris.

2025: the year it all ends?
Azorius24 Knight of Solace from the bonnie, bonnie banks o' Loch Lomond (Five Long Years) Relationship Status: love is a deadly lazer
Knight of Solace
#2343: Jun 1st 2022 at 9:43:03 AM

[up] Seems sensible. Have done so.

Edited by Azorius24 on Jun 1st 2022 at 5:50:22 PM

"The only thing which is certain, is that something will happen".
Elmo3000 from UK Since: Jul, 2013
#2344: Jun 1st 2022 at 4:40:58 PM

[up]Apologies if this belongs in said other thread; the Wikipedia page for that episode of Black Mirror states "When Brooker came to write the episode, he took inspiration for Waldo's character on British politician Boris Johnson" and then it links to two interviews where he directly states so, so hopefully that clears things up.

Edited by Elmo3000 on Jun 1st 2022 at 12:41:36 PM

Azorius24 Knight of Solace from the bonnie, bonnie banks o' Loch Lomond (Five Long Years) Relationship Status: love is a deadly lazer
Knight of Solace
#2345: Jun 2nd 2022 at 2:51:56 AM

[up] Yeah it's been confirmed, thanks. Although I do feel it might be more appropriate as Harsher in Hindsight given the confirmation that Waldo was expressly based on Boris.

Edited by Azorius24 on Jun 2nd 2022 at 10:53:29 AM

"The only thing which is certain, is that something will happen".
RallyBot2 (Elder Troper) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
#2346: Jun 2nd 2022 at 3:54:06 AM

It's political Hindsight so I'd say no. "Boris becomes PM" isn't harsh if you ask the Tories.

Azorius24 Knight of Solace from the bonnie, bonnie banks o' Loch Lomond (Five Long Years) Relationship Status: love is a deadly lazer
Elmo3000 from UK Since: Jul, 2013
#2348: Jun 2nd 2022 at 4:54:14 AM

[up][up]I don't know, I would argue that you could call it Harsher in Hindsight without violating ROCEJ. The moral of that episode of Black Mirror is very clearly 'Do not vote for people like Waldo' so if the politician who inspired Waldo was later elected Prime Minister, then all politics removed, it clearly is harsher that the exact opposite of what the writer hoped would happen, happened.

That said I wouldn't argue very hard for it because I can see your point and I'm not a huge Black Mirror fan anyway.

TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#2349: Jun 2nd 2022 at 9:31:21 AM

I took a chainsaw to 19 Kids and Counting to remove complaining, gossip, and other NRLEP tropes. The series also has a character sheet full of bashing despite the show being a reality show (yes I’m aware they’re mostly scripted but its still probably best to treat it like it isn’t).

Once Upon A Time.
Azorius24 Knight of Solace from the bonnie, bonnie banks o' Loch Lomond (Five Long Years) Relationship Status: love is a deadly lazer
Knight of Solace
#2350: Jun 2nd 2022 at 12:37:15 PM

From the Trivia page for The West Wing:

  • Life Imitates Art:
    • One pointed criticism of the fictional Bartlet Presidency is that he basically gets nothing done and spends most of his time compromising with Republicans, who water down every attempt at progressive policy. The same thing happened in reality to the Obama presidency and after Hillary Clinton lost to Donald Trump, who spent most of his time as President demolishing whatever legacy Obama left.
Looks like a pretty clean cut violation/complaining to me. There are other Life Imitates Art examples besides this.

Edited by Azorius24 on Jun 2nd 2022 at 8:42:36 PM

"The only thing which is certain, is that something will happen".

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