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Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment (ROCEJ): Violations, misuse, and other issues

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The Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment exists to prevent tropers from making agenda-based edits or bringing up irrelevant controversial issues, but it's not always obvious if something breaks the rule or not. This thread serves the purposes of:

  • Getting consensus on cutting overly controversial edits.
  • Rewriting biased examples to be more neutral.
  • Pre-emptively clarifying if a possible example actually violates the rule, or if it's okay to add.
  • Making sure that the rule isn't just being used as an excuse to write a Zero-Context Example ("Some people think that X is Y, and that's all we have to say about it.")

Notes regarding edits related to current political figures

  • Current political figures should not be a subject of any trope example on the wiki, except when they meet all three of the following criteria:
    • When the work in question specifically mentions the real life individual.
    • When the entirety of the example has to do with the portrayal of that individual in the work.
    • When the work is fictional.
  • Alternatively, when a current political figure has a creative role themselves, such as writing or acting in a work, we give them no more nor less treatment then we would any other creator.
  • Additionally, please make sure to take out any examples of Harsher in Hindsight or Hilarious in Hindsight regarding current political figures. A political event that may be seen positively by some people may be seen negatively by others.

Other relevant threads and pages

Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 19th 2024 at 12:40:14 PM

GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#1951: Jan 20th 2022 at 2:02:15 AM

[up]No objections to removing the bolded part, since the relevant section of his Wikipedia page doesn't mention that.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 20th 2022 at 8:04:13 AM

I got a rock for Halloween.
Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
#1952: Jan 20th 2022 at 11:50:58 AM

[up][up]Not just that, but the Creators on the Autism Spectrum page does not mention Pokémon creator Satoshi Tajiri as being on the autism spectrum.

Source: https://www.appliedbehavioranalysisprograms.com/historys-30-most-inspiring-people-on-the-autism-spectrum/

Yes, the person who created the biggest media franchise in history is on the autism spectrum, and yet the Creators on the Autism Spectrum page does not mention that fact.

Yes, I too am on the autism spectrum.

Edited by Nen_desharu on Jan 20th 2022 at 2:52:39 PM

Kirby is awesome.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#1953: Jan 20th 2022 at 11:54:19 AM

...Then add him?

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
wingedcatgirl mys. minty from the silly dimension from lurking (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
mys. minty from the silly dimension
#1954: Jan 20th 2022 at 12:37:31 PM

Pages on this wiki are inherently never complete; there will always be examples nobody has added yet. The solution to spotting a missing example is to add it.

Suddenly I'm... still rotating Fallen London in my mind even though I've stopped actively playing it.
Zuxtron Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel from Node 03 (On A Trope Odyssey)
#1955: Jan 20th 2022 at 12:51:56 PM

Given how high-profile he is though, it can make one wonder if there's a reason why he's not included on the page.

Looking it up gives conflicting answers about whether or not he was diagnosed, self-diagnoses himself as autistic, or if it's just armchair psychologists looking at him and saying that he has "autism traits".

To me, it seems like the case of Satoshi Tajiri might be a rumor that spread out of control until people took it as blind fact. I can't find any sources of the man himself saying he is autistic, or of him having received a diagnosis.

Edited by Zuxtron on Jan 20th 2022 at 3:52:30 PM

GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#1956: Jan 21st 2022 at 12:01:42 AM

[up]It is a rumor; it was discovered that the original claim came from a MySpace page. Wikipedia removed that from their page for him because of that (I couldn't link directly to the relevant section because TV Tropes can't format the link correctly).

Edit: This was already brought up on the discussion page, and someone there also linked to Tajiri's Wikipedia article's talk page.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 21st 2022 at 12:41:09 PM

I got a rock for Halloween.
TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#1957: Jan 21st 2022 at 2:13:26 PM

I am opposed to an Antoons page since he doesn’t deserve the free publicity and his page would probably attract attention from the wrong types of people.

Once Upon A Time.
bwburke94 I am mad scientist! It's so cool! from 1.048596% (Y2: Electric Boogaloo) Relationship Status: She does the things you do, but she is an IBM
I am mad scientist! It's so cool!
#1958: Jan 21st 2022 at 6:20:27 PM

[up] Are you saying this is a Stonetoss situation, or something else entirely?

2025: the year it all ends?
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#1959: Jan 21st 2022 at 6:48:24 PM

I'm pretty sure it's a Stonetoss situation except this guy seems to have other series that aren't political.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
bowserbros No longer active. from Elsewhere Since: May, 2014
No longer active.
#1960: Jan 21st 2022 at 7:11:27 PM

[up]x8 IIRC there's actually a lot of uncertainty as to whether or not the claim of Tajiri being autistic is accurate; a lot of sources claim that he was formally diagnosed and simply prefers not to talk about it (given Japanese society's views on neurodivergence), but at the same time I recall hearing that it's one of those rumors without a reliable original source. Wikipedia in fact no longer mentions it on his article, with the discussion page stating that the claim likely originated from a fake MySpace page that was mistakenly believed to be legitimate.

With that in mind, I'd hold off on adding him until something more definitive emerges.

Be kind.
laserviking42 from End-World Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
#1961: Jan 21st 2022 at 11:31:50 PM

[up] It sounds like this is your standard amateur armchair diagnosis, where unqualified people speculate wildly on the mental state of a person they've never met. If they themselves talk about their condition, that's one thing, but I would seriously be against continuing to spread hearsay and rumor.

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
bowserbros No longer active. from Elsewhere Since: May, 2014
No longer active.
#1962: Jan 22nd 2022 at 9:41:12 AM

[up]Given everything I could find regarding the claim's circulation, I'm inclined to agree. So yeah, don't add Tajiri to the index unless he or a family member/loved one gives direct, verifiable confirmation.

Edited by bowserbros on Jan 22nd 2022 at 9:42:06 AM

Be kind.
TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#1963: Jan 24th 2022 at 1:11:30 PM

I found this on the YMMV page for Despicable Me

* "Funny Aneurysm" Moment: The film has a bank that invests in supervillany. Two years after the movie's release, it was revealed that HSBC had been knowingly laundering money for terrorists, drug smugglers, and tinpot dictators the world over.
Permission to cut?

Once Upon A Time.
bwburke94 I am mad scientist! It's so cool! from 1.048596% (Y2: Electric Boogaloo) Relationship Status: She does the things you do, but she is an IBM
I am mad scientist! It's so cool!
#1964: Jan 24th 2022 at 1:16:39 PM

[up] Connection seems tenuous. That's cutworthy.

2025: the year it all ends?
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#1965: Jan 24th 2022 at 5:40:49 PM

Discussion regarding "Funny Aneurysm" Moment would probably be better suited to the Hindsight cleanup thread, since "Funny Aneurysm" Moment was merged with Harsher in Hindsight and the merge was deferred to the cleanup thread instead of being handled by TRS.

I got a rock for Halloween.
TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#1966: Jan 24th 2022 at 6:54:13 PM

I brought it here more for it seeming to be ROCEJ issue than a misuse issue.

Once Upon A Time.
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#1968: Jan 25th 2022 at 2:02:45 PM

On the same note I found this on the Broken Base page for Five Nights At Freddys. It’s a wall of text and I’m not sure if this is a ROCEJ issue.

* In June of 2021, it was revealed that Scott Cawthon had used his profits to fund Republican candidate Donald Trump in his campaign in 2016, and had been donating to the Republican Party for quite some time. This resulted in enough negative press that Scott felt he had to respond to. As the situation evolved, it had a cascade of consequences as a result, and whether Scott was justified in his decision is entirely based on who you ask. Those who are against Scott's decision argue that Scott is responsible for negative decisions made by the GOP, and that by funding them he is effectively endorsing every decision they make regardless of the harm caused. On the other hand, diehard fans, especially those from the Freddit who counter argue that Scott should be allowed to use him money as seen fit, and that nothing he did was a crime as he simply donated to a cause he believed in, so he is being unfairly demonized for expressing his political ideals. Arguments range from LGBTQ+ discussions, charity drives, Scott's public image, the political landscape, and on. Regardless of which side you're on, Scott, amidst the controversy, decided to announce his retirement, and began the process of handing the game series off to a third party. This has further caused a split with some fans refusing to buy the games or merchandise if Scott isn't helming the series, those who will support it regardless, those who are just happy to see Scott gone and won't be buying anything, and those who will get back into FnaF if Scott isn't earning money from it anymore.
Should I cut it or trim it down to this?
In June of 2021 it came to light that Scott Cawthon had been donating to Donald Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign and the GOP for quite some time. Responses ranged from accusations of supporting the GOP’s controversial decisions (such as discrimination against the LGBT community) and subsequent boycotts to people saying that it was his money and donating to politicians isn’t a crime. Regardless, Scott decided to announce his retirement leading some to claim that the series will suffer without his input while others are happy that supporting the series doesn’t come with his political baggage.

Edited by TheLivingDrawing on Jan 25th 2022 at 5:05:24 AM

Once Upon A Time.
MrMediaGuy2 Since: Jun, 2015
#1969: Jan 25th 2022 at 2:18:50 PM

[up] IMO, the example should be cut for being too meta, since it's about the creator and not the actual games.

GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#1971: Jan 25th 2022 at 2:25:41 PM

Agreed as well about it being meta and ROCEJ-y.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Jan 25th 2022 at 5:25:50 AM

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#1972: Jan 25th 2022 at 2:41:42 PM

And it’s gone.

Once Upon A Time.
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#1973: Jan 26th 2022 at 5:42:48 AM

Uh guys, this was added to YMMV.Santa Inc:

  • Tainted by the Preview: The series quickly became infamous on YouTube just a few days after the first trailer dropped for its extremely crude humor and anvilicious nature. Being made by the crew behind Sausage Party (itself an incredibly polarizing film due to its crude humor and very Troubled Production) added to the controversy, as did the fact that it's a show satirizing a Christian holiday whose lead actors are Jewish agnostics that don't even celebrate the holiday.

This entry could work, but I highly question the need to mention "Jewish agnostics". This isn't the only time those two words are mentioned on the page (COMMAND+F and I saw two) and I fear there's antisemitic undertones to the edits.

Maybe we should lock the page to prevent more of this?

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Jan 26th 2022 at 8:43:13 AM

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
jandn2014 SMILE! from somewhere in Connecticut Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Hiding
SMILE!
#1974: Jan 26th 2022 at 5:48:55 AM

Nuke that; I’m definitely in for a lock. I’ll note that the Uncertain Audience example also has a similar note at the end of it.

Edited by jandn2014 on Jan 26th 2022 at 8:50:40 AM

themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#1975: Jan 26th 2022 at 5:57:07 AM

[up] Thanks, the bolded part is gone.

If I can get some more opinions on locking I will ask in Locked Pages.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall

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