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Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment (ROCEJ): Violations, misuse, and other issues

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The Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment exists to prevent tropers from making agenda-based edits or bringing up irrelevant controversial issues, but it's not always obvious if something breaks the rule or not. This thread serves the purposes of:

  • Getting consensus on cutting overly controversial edits.
  • Rewriting biased examples to be more neutral.
  • Pre-emptively clarifying if a possible example actually violates the rule, or if it's okay to add.
  • Making sure that the rule isn't just being used as an excuse to write a Zero-Context Example ("Some people think that X is Y, and that's all we have to say about it.")

Notes regarding edits related to current political figures

  • Current political figures should not be a subject of any trope example on the wiki, except when they meet all three of the following criteria:
    • When the work in question specifically mentions the real life individual.
    • When the entirety of the example has to do with the portrayal of that individual in the work.
    • When the work is fictional.
  • Alternatively, when a current political figure has a creative role themselves, such as writing or acting in a work, we give them no more nor less treatment then we would any other creator.
  • Additionally, please make sure to take out any examples of Harsher in Hindsight or Hilarious in Hindsight regarding current political figures. A political event that may be seen positively by some people may be seen negatively by others.

Other relevant threads and pages

Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 19th 2024 at 12:40:14 PM

wingedcatgirl mys. minty from the silly dimension from lurking (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
mys. minty from the silly dimension
#1451: Aug 22nd 2021 at 5:18:59 PM

YMMV.Sly Cooper Thief Of Virtue could probably use some eyes on it, given that it's a YMMV page about a blatantly political fan work, but we're here for this example of Strawman Has a Point:

  • We're supposed to believe Torus is wrong in saying that change must be forced where its denied...but is he though? Many instances in history have shown that change has had to be forced rather than taught such as the American Civil War and World War II, and that's all that will be said on the matter. With that being said, however, Torus is actually right in a sense given that not everyone wants be taught to change for the better, and that ultimately its necessary to force them to whether people think they're in a position to or not.

We were originally gonna just remove the sinkhole, but this seems kinda... asking for trouble?

Suddenly I'm... still rotating Fallen London in my mind even though I've stopped actively playing it.
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#1452: Aug 25th 2021 at 8:13:18 AM

Mistaken for Pedophile was voted to keep its RL examples, but I do want to discuss one or two. Specifically those where the example is very recent and it feels unclear whether we should definitively say someone is innocent or guilty of a rumor, like this one:

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
JAG01 Since: Mar, 2012
#1453: Aug 25th 2021 at 9:11:46 AM

Just checked Screw the Rules, They're Not Real!, and apparently people have added more political and borderline-political examples to the Real Life folder since I reported on it. Seeing as how people are doing this when the trope is less than a week old, I think there's a strong case for it being added to the NRLEP list.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#1454: Aug 25th 2021 at 11:12:35 AM

[up][up] Get rid of rumors. No real-life examples unless they're unambiguous, I'd say. With fiction the narrative is deliberate and crafted enough that the call is fairly easy to make at least.

BlueXIII Still breathing, despite everything. from Shambhala Since: Sep, 2017 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Still breathing, despite everything.
#1455: Aug 25th 2021 at 11:58:35 AM

[up][up][up] As the person who wrote the entry, I decided to delete it.

TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#1456: Aug 27th 2021 at 8:59:39 AM

That entire YMMV page needs a thorough scrubbing. So much snark and complaining. Same for The Mysterious Mr. Enter.

Edited by TheLivingDrawing on Aug 27th 2021 at 12:13:53 PM

Once Upon A Time.
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#1457: Aug 27th 2021 at 9:44:18 AM

[up] I can't even imagine how much contentious shit, complaining, and problems there are on Mr. Enter's page, given how contentious he is, how beloved he is among his fans, and how loathed he is among those who hate him (such as myself.) A while back I considered starting an entire Short-Term thread for cleaning up his numerous pages, but since he is one of my least favorite YouTubers out there (and possibly my least favorite along with The Nostalgia Critic) I couldn't do it in a non-biased way.

Perhaps if there are enough problems someone else could start the cleanup?

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Aug 27th 2021 at 12:44:45 PM

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#1458: Aug 27th 2021 at 9:49:47 AM

His page is surprisingly not as complainy as you would expect, at least not that I remember. Still might be worth going over. And I've loved and hated him at different points so I could pick out issues like gushing as well as complaining.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#1459: Aug 27th 2021 at 11:10:20 AM

Perhaps the page should be locked because of how contentious he is. I used to like him, now I hate him because he mistreated one of my friends who used to edit for him.

Once Upon A Time.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#1460: Aug 27th 2021 at 11:13:58 AM

It's really not that bash-y though. I looked through it the other day and it was shockingly neutral.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#1461: Aug 27th 2021 at 3:30:45 PM

I actually found more gushy content than complaining, mainly on the Moments pages.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#1462: Aug 27th 2021 at 4:42:20 PM

[up] Ah good. I was worried that since I last checked on the page, there would be more contentious content due to Enter's...views on COVID-19, but if there's more gushing that might be a job for the gushing cleanup thread instead.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#1463: Aug 27th 2021 at 5:59:03 PM

I think that stuff is mostly discussed on DMOS. I know it's one of my entries...

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#1464: Aug 27th 2021 at 8:19:51 PM

Here’s a self critique. For Stryder 7 X I created a trivia page for him specifically to add Role-Ending Misdemeanor since he’s been in near complete radio silence for a year after a former GF made rape and severe abuse allegations against him. I did leave out my personal opinions (I think he’s most likely guilty) but I don’t know if it still constitutes a ROCEJ violation.

Once Upon A Time.
ArielLightning Zoisite Rose from Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, USA Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Zoisite Rose
#1465: Aug 29th 2021 at 7:48:40 PM

I actually stopped watching Mr. Enter entirely because of his views on COVID-19. I've usually agreed with him on other things he's said in his reviews, but the "mask skeptic" stuff and his whole attitude on this pandemic was just too much for me.

In any case, as controversial as he is, I would definitely make sure to try to cut out the complaining when necessary.

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#1466: Aug 29th 2021 at 8:15:51 PM

[up] Same, but I still try to keep his page neutral. Thankfully I think most people who update his page only do so if they watch his reviews and like his work.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
ArielLightning Zoisite Rose from Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, USA Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Zoisite Rose
#1467: Aug 29th 2021 at 10:50:53 PM

Thanks for your efforts, mightymewtron. I'm just extremely worried that what Mr. Enter said might actually be making the pandemic worse. Not to mention, he equated comforting children and assuring them that everything would be okay to lying to them. That's an extremely fucked up thing to say, especially when the children have been suffering just as much as the adults if not more so.

Again, thank you for trying to keep things neutral.

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#1468: Aug 29th 2021 at 11:19:55 PM

You're welcome, but I feel like your comments in this thread about why you hate what he's doing may be doing the exact thing we're trying to prevent. Again, I don't disagree, but still.

Edited by mightymewtron on Aug 29th 2021 at 2:20:08 PM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
ArielLightning Zoisite Rose from Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, USA Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#1470: Aug 31st 2021 at 2:24:57 AM

So I have a bit of a question, and I assume it's better to ask first. But recently I added an entry to Vinesauce under Why We Cant Have Nice Things, given a statement Vinny made at the end of one of his recent uploads here.

The Art Corner was a daily segment, and the Image Booru received enough Vinny-specific artwork that each one could go on for quite a long time, so for Vinny to cancel what was once a staple of his uploads and for many a key part of his appeal permanently, is a pretty major change.

For those who aren't into the videogame Youtube scene, a few months ago Vinny experienced a cancelation attempt, similar to the one that happened to Dan Avidan, that largely failed and is generally understood to have been fabricated as a smear attempt by bitter ex-associates with an axe to grind (so obvious, in fact, that many of the original backers have retracted and essentially admitted as much after all the holes were pointed out), but was still enough to shake him up and force him into a hiatus and change the way he created contentnote .

My question is, is this too ROCEJ to bring up? I wrote the entry assuming that ending the Art Corner was related to his long-standing hatred of creepy and invasive fanart, but while that's not completely untrue, I later found out that it had more with one of said ex-associates having been a former booru member, and thus the entry is misleading in its current form. I want to clarify it, but I do know that troping about Youtuber scandals is generally considered off-mission for the site, and I have tried to remove entries discussing the controversy too directly when the incident was still brand new, plus a few other changes which didn't fit the six-month wait period.

But since Vinny has addressed part of this directly, and since this has led to tangible effects on his output, is it OK to mention this on his page in vague terms? Relatedly, when would it be safe to note Gee PM's (one of the other associates) full-on retirement streaming due to this incident?

Edited by AlleyOop on Aug 31st 2021 at 8:11:32 AM

AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#1471: Aug 31st 2021 at 2:34:01 AM

I know this is REALLY old but a fanfic that imported drama was mentioned... and not only it should just have that example deleted, it should be purged entirely from TV Tropes. It has RAPE/NON CON AND UNDERAGE STUFF. Any example should be nuked.

https://archiveofourown.org/works/27305791/chapters/78459572

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#1472: Aug 31st 2021 at 3:41:56 AM

[up]I think you want something in the content policy forum for that.

My musician page
AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#1473: Aug 31st 2021 at 6:40:14 AM

I know but I think someone mentioned it here as well. I will go immediately and post it there too.

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#1474: Aug 31st 2021 at 7:17:56 AM

And I answered you there, but I'd like to reinforce that there's no focus on the explicit sex acts and it's not porn in the slightest because one look at the trope page would provide the context for that "rape/noncon" tag. (And we don't ban works just for having rape anyway unless it's sexualized stuff of children.)

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
RallyBot2 (Elder Troper) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
#1475: Aug 31st 2021 at 3:05:52 PM

[up]Or it's just porn/erotica, of course.


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