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Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment (ROCEJ): Violations, misuse, and other issues

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The Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment exists to prevent tropers from making agenda-based edits or bringing up irrelevant controversial issues, but it's not always obvious if something breaks the rule or not. This thread serves the purposes of:

  • Getting consensus on cutting overly controversial edits.
  • Rewriting biased examples to be more neutral.
  • Pre-emptively clarifying if a possible example actually violates the rule, or if it's okay to add.
  • Making sure that the rule isn't just being used as an excuse to write a Zero-Context Example ("Some people think that X is Y, and that's all we have to say about it.")

Notes regarding edits related to current political figures

  • Current political figures should not be a subject of any trope example on the wiki, except when they meet all three of the following criteria:
    • When the work in question specifically mentions the real life individual.
    • When the entirety of the example has to do with the portrayal of that individual in the work.
    • When the work is fictional.
  • Alternatively, when a current political figure has a creative role themselves, such as writing or acting in a work, we give them no more nor less treatment then we would any other creator.
  • Additionally, please make sure to take out any examples of Harsher in Hindsight or Hilarious in Hindsight regarding current political figures. A political event that may be seen positively by some people may be seen negatively by others.

Other relevant threads and pages

Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 19th 2024 at 12:40:14 PM

Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
#1351: Jul 18th 2021 at 8:59:08 PM

Since the real-life examples are kept for Insult to Rocks, I'm thinking of amending the rules to prohibit current politicians.

Obviously, the If Hitler Invaded Hell speech by Churchill will be kept.

Edited by Nen_desharu on Jul 19th 2021 at 7:20:42 AM

Kirby is awesome.
Theatre_Maven_3695 from Ontario, Canada (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#1353: Jul 19th 2021 at 8:06:12 AM

It'd need the No Recent Examples, Please! thread to vote on it.

Frankly I don't really care that much since the trope requires objective description of others' speeches and such.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
KUnlimited Since: Sep, 2020
#1354: Jul 19th 2021 at 9:43:48 AM

I'll repost my question this time:

How much of Creator.Liana K is salvageable? The page mentions some questionable things, such as feuds with other feminists.

Avatar by Butterscotch Arts. Used under license.
Elmo3000 from UK Since: Jul, 2013
#1355: Jul 19th 2021 at 9:58:44 AM

I think pretty much all of the Liana K page is fine, some bits waffle on a little too much about her 'rivalry' with Anita Sarkeesian, but nothing that feels like importing drama. Except maybe the addendum at the end of the Friendly Rivalry trope that refers to a more serious disagreement they've had.

I have a quick ROCEJ query too; it's been brought up a few times before that we avoid applying tropes to real people, which is why pages like Ben Shapiro were cut, but how does this apply to reality TV? There's a Characters page for Kitchen Nightmares and it's nothing but tropes of real people who appeared on the show, and predictably most of them are things like Bad Boss, Jerkass, Fat Idiot, etc.

I'm curious how this fits in with our 'no troping real life people' rules but I would also personally be extremely against cutting this because that page is hilarious and - oh my God - has anyone here not seen the Amy's Baking Company episode? You have to see the Amy's Baking Company episode.

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#1356: Jul 19th 2021 at 10:01:41 AM

Reality shows are assumed to be heavily edited and directed and possibly scripted in some sections, so they can be troped due to having "fictionalized" elements. Shapiro was cut because he doesn't even create fiction or anything meant to be primarily entertaining — he's just a pundit, which isn't tropeworthy.

That said, the Character page should not complain about the real life people outside of the context of the show.

Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 19th 2021 at 1:02:11 PM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#1358: Jul 20th 2021 at 11:41:40 AM

I found this entry in the Real Life folder in Skewed Priorities and wasn’t sure if it is allowed. It also feels a bit complainy.

During the COVID-19 Pandemic, many cities went on total shutdown to slow the spread, as part of which nonessential businesses were forced to temporarily shut down all in-person shopping (though some versions of the rules did allow such businesses to have a curbside pickup system). Video game retail giant Gamestop decided to classify themselves as an essential business, even though selling video games is considered to be a luxury and not a necessity (the closest they came to offering an explanation was a weak excuse about selling a few items that could be used by employees working from home). People in Gamestop's corporate division also told their employees that not only they had to keep operating their business as normal, but they were also on their own in regards to obtaining sanitizers and other cleaning supplies. On top of this, employees were also told ignore government orders to shut down and if the police stopped by, they were to refer them to corporate. The stunt got Gamestop heavily blasted on social media and the governor of Pennsylvania forcibly revoked Gamestop's business license. The reason behind Gamestop's defiance? DOOM Eternal and Animal Crossing: New Horizons were close to being launched and they didn't want to lose out on the sales.
  • Accusations of this flew in all directions in response to the shutdowns; those who favored increased safety measures accused proponents of reopening of putting profit above human lives, while those who favored reopening accused opponents of being short-sighted and reactive, having such a single-minded focus on the virus (which many people in this camp also believed was being blown out of proportion) that they were ignoring potential long-term negative effects of the shutdown.
  • On an individual level, it was very common to see people ignoring social distancing rules and not wear a mask because they felt that their own comfort and enjoyment was more important, even if they risked catching or spreading the virus.
  • This has gone many ways among vaccine-producing countries. Some countries like Russia sent most of their vaccine stocks overseas to spread their influence, which left their citizens vulnerable to subsequent case surges. Conversely, others like the US prioritized vaccinating their own citizens instead of donating to countries that can't produce vaccines.
Does this violate the rules or no? I’m surprised Skewed Priorities allows for real life examples in the first place. What do you guys think?

Once Upon A Time.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#1359: Jul 20th 2021 at 11:43:34 AM

Yeah, I'd axe that.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#1360: Jul 20th 2021 at 11:47:20 AM

[up] Cut.

Once Upon A Time.
TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#1361: Jul 20th 2021 at 11:48:13 AM

Should Skewed Priorities allow real life examples? It sounds like a magnet for complaining and Flame Bait.

Once Upon A Time.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#1362: Jul 20th 2021 at 11:48:41 AM

Ask that here.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
PlasmaPower Piece of Cake. Since: Jan, 2015
Piece of Cake.
#1363: Jul 26th 2021 at 3:32:04 PM

Activision Blizzard is currently being sued by the state of California for the sexual harassment of its female employees (among other things). We might need to keep a lookout for any mentions of this on the wiki.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Jul 26th 2021 at 7:43:47 AM

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!
Theatre_Maven_3695 from Ontario, Canada (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
#1364: Jul 27th 2021 at 2:03:40 PM

Funny.Musical Hell features entries about the infamous racist "gag" in the The King and I review that caused Christi to consider said episode an Old Shame and remove it from the Internet. Should we just cut the whole folder on the grounds that the episode no longer exists? The entries regarding said "gag" should definitely be killed with fire either way imo.

Edited by Theatre_Maven_3695 on Jul 27th 2021 at 5:04:35 AM

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#1365: Jul 27th 2021 at 3:04:31 PM

[up] Just because Christi has Old Shame about the gag doesn't mean nobody else can find it funny. I don't really find it funny, but other works have made similarly racist Malicious Misnaming / Accidental Misnaming jokes (The Book of Mormon comes to mind) and we don't cut those jokes from the Funny/ pages. And there's proof the episode existed via Christi's posts about it.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Theatre_Maven_3695 from Ontario, Canada (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
ATricksterArtist Back from the grave. from CH 57 (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Back from the grave.
#1367: Jul 30th 2021 at 8:17:08 AM

I was checking NF pages, and on SiIvagunner's...

  • Pull Up A Chair - Hearthstone may be one of the most disturbing rips produced by the channel, full stop. An unsubtle Take That! to Blizzard Entertainment acquiescing to the Chinese government's demands and blacklisting a Hearthstone champion who spoke out in support of the 2019 Hong Kong Protests, the rip features actual audio from the protests (including screaming, glass breaking, and what sounds like someone being beaten) as the mellow song plays in the foreground. Aside from the horrible and depressing Real Life context, the rip itself is not pleasant to hear.

I get why people can consider this scary, but it stands out amongst all other entries on the page. Do we really need something mentioning the violent protests in a NF page for funny rips?

How's your day been?
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#1368: Jul 31st 2021 at 12:19:49 PM

Uh I don't know what to do about Billy the Heretic. It's an infamous Neo-Nazi webcomic that I almost added to the complaining cleanup sandbox until I realized that if we cleaned up the complaining, we would look like we were endorsing the comic's views.

Which made me question, if we cannot talk about it neutrally, should we even have it at all?

What does everyone else think?

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#1369: Jul 31st 2021 at 12:24:48 PM

Well unlike Stonetoss, it has a narrative, so that helps matters. We can mention that it's antisemitic, I don't think the author's trying to deny that (even if he denies it's outright Nazism).

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#1370: Jul 31st 2021 at 12:37:01 PM

[up] Thanks for the input. I added it to the sandbox. Hope my descriptor for it was OK.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#1371: Jul 31st 2021 at 12:42:03 PM

[up][up][up][up] It should be trimmed, but I think it can stay.

Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#1372: Jul 31st 2021 at 10:11:05 PM

Is it just me, or do some of these examples of Qurac violate ROCEJ?

    Real Life 
  • In Tony Blair's memoirs, he recalls a visit to Pakistan where on the way from Islamabad Airport to the city he saw people on the embankment, men in white robes and veiled women. This despite the fact that there is 1) no embankment anywhere near the route, it is pretty much an expressway almost all the way, 2) that Pakistani men do not wear white "robes" like Arabs do (shalwar khameez on the other hand...) and Pakistani women do not usually wear a veil and especially not in the region where Islamabad is located (head-covering scarves, on the other hand...). They might not have been native Pakistanis but rather visitors from Saudi Arabia or Yemen, but it has been noted by the field of psychology that, dispositions notwithstanding, the brain is a very generous organ; when there is need, it will supply.
  • Following the 2010-2011 protests in Tunisia (resulting in the resignation of President Ben Ali and dissolution of the current administration), a specific interview had one protest leader quoted as demanding certain democratic ideals from the incoming government, most of all "...national dignity! We are not a Bananas [sic] Republic!"
  • During the Republican primary race in 2011, Herman Cain was asked a question about his knowledge of foreign policy; his joke answer included the country of "Ubeki-beki-beki-stan-stan" in reference to Uzbekistan, where Hillary Clinton was visiting at the time.
  • United States Army Reserve Officers' Training Corps programs at universities involve planning operations in an area that includes the edges of the Middle East and the Caucasus. Maps tend to show that the United States Army was not particularly creative in renaming the countries: the most creative was turning Azerbaijan into "Atropia" (and that was the only country that didn't have its capital city renamed or misspelled) and calling Turkey "Kemalia" (the man who is considered to be the father of the modern state of Turkey was named Mustafa Kemal); other than that, they don't go much further than rearranging the letters and adding or removing one or two letters.
    • Still doing better than the British Army's Land Warfare Centre, where operations are planned on maps of Salisbury Plain training area... titled "Wessexstan'', and where ground briefs always describe the prominent "Avon Wadi"...
  • In 2015, a prank poll in the United States asked voters if they supported bombing "Agrabah". 30% of Republican respondents and 19% of Democratic respondents said yes.

wingedcatgirl mys. minty from the silly dimension from lurking (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
mys. minty from the silly dimension
#1373: Jul 31st 2021 at 10:32:56 PM

A Qurac is fictional by definition, so I'm pretty sure real life examples are always gonna be misuse.

Suddenly I'm... still rotating Fallen London in my mind even though I've stopped actively playing it.
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#1374: Aug 1st 2021 at 8:20:34 AM

Angriest Comment Thread On Youtube was just made, and tropes the real people involved in a very long, infamous comment thread on Youtube (and bashes some Paper Mario games for good measure since that's how the thread started).

The Protomen enhanced my life.
Theatre_Maven_3695 from Ontario, Canada (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!

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