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Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment (ROCEJ): Violations, misuse, and other issues

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The Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment exists to prevent tropers from making agenda-based edits or bringing up irrelevant controversial issues, but it's not always obvious if something breaks the rule or not. This thread serves the purposes of:

  • Getting consensus on cutting overly controversial edits.
  • Rewriting biased examples to be more neutral.
  • Pre-emptively clarifying if a possible example actually violates the rule, or if it's okay to add.
  • Making sure that the rule isn't just being used as an excuse to write a Zero-Context Example ("Some people think that X is Y, and that's all we have to say about it.")

Notes regarding edits related to current political figures

  • Current political figures should not be a subject of any trope example on the wiki, except when they meet all three of the following criteria:
    • When the work in question specifically mentions the real life individual.
    • When the entirety of the example has to do with the portrayal of that individual in the work.
    • When the work is fictional.
  • Alternatively, when a current political figure has a creative role themselves, such as writing or acting in a work, we give them no more nor less treatment then we would any other creator.
  • Additionally, please make sure to take out any examples of Harsher in Hindsight or Hilarious in Hindsight regarding current political figures. A political event that may be seen positively by some people may be seen negatively by others.

Other relevant threads and pages

Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 19th 2024 at 12:40:14 PM

Delibirda from Splatsville Since: Sep, 2020 Relationship Status: I wanna be your dog
#1326: Jun 29th 2021 at 2:31:18 PM

'K, then.

"Listen up, Marina, because this is SUPER important. Whatever you do, don't eat th“ “DON'T EAT WHAT?! Your text box ran out of space!”
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#1327: Jun 29th 2021 at 3:07:05 PM

That's not a meme from the hatedom, it's a fandom meme mocking the hatedom. I'm not sure how it manifests as a meme besides just quoting it, but it seems valid.

Edited by mightymewtron on Jun 29th 2021 at 6:08:12 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#1328: Jun 29th 2021 at 3:56:02 PM

I don't think it is a meme at all. In my experience, the fandom just mocks that individual's comment whenever the subject crops up. That's not exactly how memes work. But the entire page needs cleaning up (it has multiple sub-pages), so perhaps it's best left for that.

My primary reason for bringing it here was the flamebait potholing. Regardless of whether it's a legitimate meme, its current wording seems like flamebait to me.

Should I reword instead of cut?

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
PlasmaPower Piece of Cake. Since: Jan, 2015
Piece of Cake.
#1329: Jun 29th 2021 at 4:03:27 PM

At the least, that Insane Troll Logic pothole should go, since it's troping what a real person said on the internet.

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!
Shadow8411 Since: Jul, 2019
#1330: Jun 30th 2021 at 8:39:23 PM

From South Park S 4 E 5 Cartman Joins NAMBLA:

  • Values Resonance: You would think that there being no excuse for pedophiles preying on minors wouldn't have to be this, but in The New '20s, Twitter has come under fire for their Double Standard in which accusations of homophobia or racism get blocked while actual admitted pedophiles were allowed to roam free. While they have since started cracking down, many feel they're not doing enough.

Twitter drama regarding sensitive subjects and people's opinions about them, classic case of ROCEJ right here.

Edited by Shadow8411 on Jun 30th 2021 at 8:41:42 AM

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#1331: Jun 30th 2021 at 9:45:24 PM

[up] That has nothing to do with the episode besides pedophiles being involved.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#1332: Jul 1st 2021 at 10:20:19 AM

I found this on Ghost in the Machine:

  • Some people who experience the phenomena referred to as multiple personalities (or MPD or DID, in cases where it's dysfunctional) report having spaces within their minds where the various selves interact and converse.
    • This extends to (and is very common among) people who create these other "personalities" intentionally.note  These intentionally-created personalities are popularly known as "tulpas", and there are various sites on the Internet including a subreddit dedicated to the practice.

First off, is it appropriate to refer to DID as "dysfunctional"? It is often a result of serious trauma and stress but "dysfunctional" implies you can't really live with it, which isn't true for everybody.

Second, the second bullet point only seems tangentially necessary to tack on, and I've picked up from some discourse I've seen from DID mutuals that the idea that someone can deliberately create alters without having trauma is... quite a controversial subject. And I don't know how to feel about the "should come as good news to anyone who read the above bullet point and decided it was an experience they wanted" — whether it's sarcastic or not, it gives me a bad vibe.

Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 1st 2021 at 1:21:05 PM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
wingedcatgirl mys. minty from the silly dimension from lurking (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
mys. minty from the silly dimension
#1333: Jul 1st 2021 at 11:00:27 AM

A lot of multiples, of varying kinds, have reported having a "headspace" or "wonderland" like that — we have one, though it's more metaphorical than literal. We're not aware of any reason why singlets couldn't have one, but we don't in fact hear much about such things from them.

Whether any given kind of multiplicity (you get this about all of them, not just tulpamancy, up to and including the entire concept of multiplicity itself) is a "valid" or "real" kind is... contentious in a lot of ways, primarily because, as an entirely mental phenomenon, it's not really plausible to "prove" it one way or the other. We prefer to believe people's self-reported experiences on this subject, but some are much more skeptical.

In any case, this is all just one example and should be on just one bullet.

Edited by wingedcatgirl on Jul 1st 2021 at 1:02:05 PM

Suddenly I'm... still rotating Fallen London in my mind even though I've stopped actively playing it.
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#1334: Jul 3rd 2021 at 5:27:34 AM

At the least, that Insane Troll Logic pothole should go, since it's troping what a real person said on the internet.

To remove both the flamebait reference and the Insane Troll Logic pothole, I've rewritten the entry as follows:

  • Yang can't be a lesbian, her boobs are too big!Explanation 

I still think it's a Take That! entry rather than a real meme. As I was making the edit, I discovered that the same troper who added the above entry also added the following entry (about the same portion of the fandom):

  • is rwby worth watching (I hate women)Explanation 

I've removed the flamebait pothole and tweaked it to this:

  • is rwby worth watching (I hate women)Explanation 

Edited by Wyldchyld on Jul 3rd 2021 at 1:30:14 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
#1335: Jul 5th 2021 at 9:22:47 PM

Real life examples of Insult to Rocks are often used as a proxy for complaining about certain real-life figures. Yes, there's quite some Trump examples (as much as I personally don't like him).

Edited by Nen_desharu on Jul 5th 2021 at 12:23:43 PM

Kirby is awesome.
Shadow8411 Since: Jul, 2019
#1336: Jul 9th 2021 at 2:18:42 PM

This is on Pyrocynical:

Pyrocynical is a lesbian furry that makes clickbait cancer and lives under a bridge... Well, not really.note 

I know this is probably meant to be a joke, but still. Also, the note was added by the same troper who listed Logan Paul (another controversial Youtuber) himself as a Acceptable Target.

Edited by Shadow8411 on Jul 11th 2021 at 11:22:45 AM

themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#1337: Jul 9th 2021 at 3:21:02 PM

[up] That segment feels like it was written by a YouTube comment. Something more descriptive could do as a replacement.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#1338: Jul 9th 2021 at 4:26:55 PM

I thought maybe it was an in-joke, but Google only points to that page and weird sketchy sites seemingly copying the text of that page.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
rjd1922 Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular, from the United States Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular,
#1339: Jul 9th 2021 at 4:52:24 PM

Yeah, get rid of that on Pyrocynical.

Keet cleanup
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#1340: Jul 9th 2021 at 5:28:24 PM

[up][up] The lesbian furry thing is an in-joke on Pyro's comments (I used to watch Pyrocynical) but the other stuff was probably made up.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
SkylaNoivern Since: Sep, 2016
#1341: Jul 11th 2021 at 8:55:40 AM

Ignore this. Wrong thread.

Edited by SkylaNoivern on Jul 14th 2021 at 9:00:37 AM

Shadow8411 Since: Jul, 2019
#1342: Jul 15th 2021 at 7:20:14 AM

Community S2 E14: Advanced Dungeons & Dragons has this:

  • Broken Base: About the episode being removed from Netflix and Hulu. Was taking it out from their platforms appropriate and respectable in light of heightened concerns and awareness of racism, or was it an overreaction, considering the execution of the scene and how tame it is compared to some other scenes and jokes the show has (and the fact that 30 Rock actually had banned episodes that featured true blackface while the so-called "blackface" here is part of the dark elf cosplay and isn't meant to be racially offensive)? The history of dark elves in real life Dungeons and Dragons, who have been accused of initially being based on racial stereotypes, doesn't help matters. Let's not take the discussion far here, though.

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#1343: Jul 15th 2021 at 8:02:17 AM

[up] Seems mostly good, but leans a bit too much towards the "this isn't actually racist" side and the last sentence, pothole and all, needs to go.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Shadow8411 Since: Jul, 2019
#1344: Jul 15th 2021 at 8:09:17 AM

I've removing the ROCEJ pothole and natter related to a different show that was shoehorned in.

themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#1346: Jul 16th 2021 at 9:34:30 AM

I had no idea where to bring this up, but this seems like the closest fit.

This entry from UnintentionalPeriodPiece.The Nineties has a bit (which is bolded) that I was a little iffy about:

  • Daria is this for the late '90s and the very early 2000s, to the point of having a page on the fandom's wiki about it. Like many other 90s media about teens and early twentysomethings, a large part of the characterization of Daria and her friends is an obsession with being "alternative" rather than the shallow, conformist and boring mainstream. This could only exist in the 90s and the very early 00s, during a period of comparative peace and prosperity that left the youth in a state of aimless ennui with nothing to complain about (besides which, either Daria's parents or school would have a problem nowadays with her flattened emotional affect and pressure her to begin regular psychological counseling, aiming to diagnose her with some kind of personality disorder. While Jake and Helen could conceivably continue to be workaholics, they would also start being more attentive to Daria & Quinn, due to the decrease of latchkey kids and increase of parental involvement in childrens' lives). All this quickly fell out of fashion after the 9/11/2001 attacks, apart from the fact that by then, the line between "alternative" and "mainstream" had been erased for some time. The dated nature of the show is also very apparent in original runs of the show, where the incidental music is composed of popular songs from the era. The DVD release uses new, generic incidental music to avoid prohibitive licensing costs.

Is it just me, or does it feel like that bit is trying to make a potentially contentious statement about mental illness diagnoses? What should I do with it?

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
wingedcatgirl mys. minty from the silly dimension from lurking (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
mys. minty from the silly dimension
#1347: Jul 16th 2021 at 10:11:45 AM

It's Parabombing, cut the whole parenthetical.

Suddenly I'm... still rotating Fallen London in my mind even though I've stopped actively playing it.
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#1348: Jul 16th 2021 at 11:10:48 AM

[up] Thanks, I have removed the offending portion.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#1349: Jul 18th 2021 at 5:46:51 PM

The bolded portion was added recently to an entry on OvershadowedByControversy.Real Life by Hamburger Time:

  • George W. Bush's reputation as president is almost entirely defined by his poor handling of the Iraq War, largely due to the rationale behind it being debunked as false and due to the political turmoil it caused in the Middle East. Even in the face of other negative events during his tenure that led to a record-breakingly-low approval rating, his mishandling of Iraq continues to be the most defining element of his political legacy. He is now retroactively seen as at best a fool whose unfortunate combination of good intentions and lack of foresight led to disaster, and at worst a vile war profiteer who destabilized an entire significant region of the world in the name of a quick buck for himself and various crooked friends.

This portion seems blatantly contentious. The whole entry seems a bit off, actually. What should be done?

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#1350: Jul 18th 2021 at 5:56:53 PM

[up] That does seem problematic. It also seems like something this user has done before.


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