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Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment (ROCEJ): Violations, misuse, and other issues

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The Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment exists to prevent tropers from making agenda-based edits or bringing up irrelevant controversial issues, but it's not always obvious if something breaks the rule or not. This thread serves the purposes of:

  • Getting consensus on cutting overly controversial edits.
  • Rewriting biased examples to be more neutral.
  • Pre-emptively clarifying if a possible example actually violates the rule, or if it's okay to add.
  • Making sure that the rule isn't just being used as an excuse to write a Zero-Context Example ("Some people think that X is Y, and that's all we have to say about it.")

Notes regarding edits related to current political figures

  • Current political figures should not be a subject of any trope example on the wiki, except when they meet all three of the following criteria:
    • When the work in question specifically mentions the real life individual.
    • When the entirety of the example has to do with the portrayal of that individual in the work.
    • When the work is fictional.
  • Alternatively, when a current political figure has a creative role themselves, such as writing or acting in a work, we give them no more nor less treatment then we would any other creator.
  • Additionally, please make sure to take out any examples of Harsher in Hindsight or Hilarious in Hindsight regarding current political figures. A political event that may be seen positively by some people may be seen negatively by others.

Other relevant threads and pages

Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 19th 2024 at 12:40:14 PM

DeadlyEspresso Mister Pendleton from your local Popeyes Since: Apr, 2023
digdis he/him Since: Mar, 2025
he/him
#5052: Aug 13th 2025 at 2:28:08 PM

[up][up] To me that looks like two Role Ending Misdemeanors in a trenchcoat.

I do think the part starting at "Interestingly" and ending with that long note should be cut.

Edit: The final sentence should also be cut imo

Edited by digdis on Aug 13th 2025 at 5:29:17 AM

Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
#5053: Aug 13th 2025 at 4:11:06 PM

As someone with ASD, cut the Colbert quote example.

Kirby is awesome.
number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
#5054: Aug 13th 2025 at 5:43:09 PM

I discovered a page for a creator named Creator.Gary Brecher, and it's setting off a lot of red flags: for one, the description does a poor job actually explaining what this guy is a creator of — though he appears to be some kind of political columnist who focuses on editorials on some fringe online magazine. Secondly, it focuses way too hard on describing him as a character (his image subtitle is "Gary, Gary... You Need to Get Laid."), and describes his persona/politics devoid of context. In addition, it seems like he doesn't have any actual narrative to speak of; again, he appears to be just a political columnist, and a purposefully incendiary one at that.

Someone expressed concern about the page back in 2012, and the only response was There Is No Such Thing as Notability. Does that even count? Is this even a person that warrants a page? Is there anything to salvage of this? Or should it just be cut?

Edited by number9robotic on Aug 13th 2025 at 5:44:16 AM

Thanks for playing King's Quest V!
DarkJediPrincess Just 'DJP' for short from Fernandina Beach, FL (Ancient one) Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Just 'DJP' for short
#5055: Aug 13th 2025 at 5:45:44 PM

[up] Uh, as written? No. Time to break out the Cut List again.

she/her/hers | Troper Wall
Blazing_Larvesta Blazing Larvesta from Unova Route 18 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Blazing Larvesta
#5056: Aug 13th 2025 at 5:49:26 PM

Seconded; that page needs to go.

Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
#5057: Aug 13th 2025 at 6:23:48 PM

Easy cut.

Just because there is no such thing as notability does not mean that anything goes.

Kirby is awesome.
Nethilia Girl Gang Disaster (she and zie) (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
Girl Gang Disaster (she and zie)
#5058: Aug 13th 2025 at 9:55:20 PM

Just cut this from Enabled Delusion as an easy ROCEJ:

  • On a much darker note, this is how the "Idea Guys" were able to manipulate Chris-Chan. Due to Chris's severe maladaptive coping mechanism that caused him to believe that his fictional characters were real, the Idea Guys took advantage of this by pretending to be his characters communicating with him from an "alternate dimension". By doing this, they manipulated Chris by threatening to nuke CW Cville, extorting $4000 worth of Gamestop credit from him, and forcing him to incorporate Nazis and other politically-incorrect themes into the lore of Webcomic/Sonichu.

I focus on obscure 1990s or graphic Middle Grade Literature novels and dolls. (She or zie, not they.)
Tyranogre Since: Jan, 2011
#5059: Aug 13th 2025 at 11:19:40 PM

[up] As the person who made that edit, I fail to see how it violates ROCEJ, other than the fact that Chris-Chan is considered a "controversial" topic? I merely listed a real-life example of the trope in question wherein the people doing the enabling had an ulterior motive for doing so. I did not intend to draw attention to any of Chris's other antics that did not directly involve the Sonichu comic itself; only the circumstances that allowed the "Idea Guys" to manipulate him.

number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
#5060: Aug 13th 2025 at 11:26:01 PM

[up]

other than the fact that Chris-Chan is considered a "controversial" topic

Even if we didn't have a general conditional ban about troping CWC as an individual (I don't recall where exactly it's been written, but there's been a mod-held agreement that they're a no-go), CWC being controversial is exactly why this is a ROCEJ violation, and this situation being described sounds like the overly invasive and morally judgemental type of story that leads to tropes getting "No Real Life Examples Please"'d.

To describe this in a complete vacuum beyond who the individuals are, the entry is about a mentally ill person being actively abused and manipulated by people because they think it's funny and can make them money. That's just sad and disturbing, and it's not even valuable as a reflection of Enabled Delusion as a narrative trope as the entry feels like it's focusing on sensationalizing the wrong things (enabling is not active manipulation and abuse).

Edited by number9robotic on Aug 14th 2025 at 12:06:02 PM

Thanks for playing King's Quest V!
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
DarkJediPrincess Just 'DJP' for short from Fernandina Beach, FL (Ancient one) Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Just 'DJP' for short
#5062: Aug 14th 2025 at 12:13:39 AM

[up][up][up]

...only the circumstances that allowed the "Idea Guys" to manipulate him.

(Emphasis mine.)

CWC's pronouns are she/her. Continuing to talk about her as if she is a man (as you have in your post and the example you wrote) is transphobic, and transphobia is not permitted on this website. If you continue to misgender people, you will risk getting a tap on the shoulder from the mods. (Read: a suspension.)

Edited by DarkJediPrincess on Aug 14th 2025 at 4:35:55 AM

she/her/hers | Troper Wall
Nethilia Girl Gang Disaster (she and zie) (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
Girl Gang Disaster (she and zie)
#5063: Aug 14th 2025 at 12:20:26 AM

[up][up] Thanks for the link; I knew the topic was banned but didn't have that to directly ref in the notification I sent.

I focus on obscure 1990s or graphic Middle Grade Literature novels and dolls. (She or zie, not they.)
The-Omniscient-Dex Just call me Jason, I suppose from Classified (Terrible Twos) Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
Just call me Jason, I suppose
#5064: Aug 14th 2025 at 4:16:17 AM

I found this entry on YMMV.Unhinged 2020 and wanted to know if it's a bit of a ROCEJ violation or not.

I'm much too lazy to come up with a caption.
Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#5065: Aug 14th 2025 at 5:16:35 AM

From UsefulNotes.British Newspapers:

The Hillsborough reporting is a huge part of the Sun's character because it shows just how loathsome its editor Kelvin MacKenzie was. The story was his brainchild; other journalists in the Sun (especially the sports reporters) could see the response coming, but MacKenzie was such a newsroom tyrant that no one could talk him down. Not even Rupert Murdoch could fully leash him, as MacKenzie retracted his apology for the reporting and blamed Murdoch for pressuring him into making it. Even decades later, when the final report on the disaster was issued in 2016 and finally, definitively exposed the Sun's reporting as a great big lie, MacKenzie wouldn't back down (and forbade any coverage on the inquiry other than a brief wire report from a foreign agency). Liverpool FC responded by formally banning all Sun journalists from club facilities for ever (Everton did the same shortly thereafter, in response to the 2017 'gorilla' article, also by MacKenzie).

(Not the only problem example on the page)

The facts of the Hillsborough tragedy and its misleading news coverage are one thing, but the 'loathsome' seems well over the line.

HalfFaust Since: Jan, 2019
#5066: Aug 14th 2025 at 7:11:37 AM

That page definitely has a number of issues, yes. Although given how tied the news media is to many, many controversies it may be quite a significant effort.

I think Hillsborough is definitely relevant enough to warrant inclusion, but agree that what's currently written is poor. Probably worth a rewrite (including some of the adjacent paragraphs) to trim it down and present it in a more neutral/factual tone.

Azorius24 Knight of Solace from the bonnie, bonnie banks o' Loch Lomond (Five Long Years) Relationship Status: love is a deadly lazer
Knight of Solace
#5067: Aug 14th 2025 at 11:23:36 AM

I don't even know where to start with this one, but is Industrial Society And Its Future really tropeworthy? A great many of the tropes seem to be NRLEP ones describing the infamous author's views.

"The only thing which is certain, is that something will happen".
CanuckMcDuck1 PEPSIMAN from Japan Since: Sep, 2023 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
PEPSIMAN
#5068: Aug 14th 2025 at 12:27:55 PM

[up]This got brought up a year ago in a Wiki Talk thread alongside the fact that Mein Kampf was also troped as a work (although it seems like that it's also been thankfully changed). I'd say Industrial Society shouldn't be troped because it’s a terrorist’s manifesto with no plot. It seems like that page only exists so that Ted Kaczynski and his views can have a page and try to be analyzed.

Edited by CanuckMcDuck1 on Aug 14th 2025 at 1:28:28 PM

Do not mess with creatures which you do not understand.
UFOYeah Since: Mar, 2022
#5069: Aug 14th 2025 at 12:30:18 PM

[up][up] I've started by getting rid of tropes that are strictly NRLEP and are also about the author's views, since it means they aren't "in-universe" and seeing what's left of the page. But I wouldn't be opposed to just cutting the whole thing for being ROCEJ in general.

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#5070: Aug 14th 2025 at 12:30:21 PM

It's not even a narrative, we could cut it on those grounds

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
DarkJediPrincess Just 'DJP' for short from Fernandina Beach, FL (Ancient one) Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Just 'DJP' for short
#5071: Aug 14th 2025 at 12:41:28 PM

Or move it to Useful Notes like Mein Kampf was. I'd be okay with cutting it too, though.

she/her/hers | Troper Wall
GearFriedTheKnight BLOCKING - A weapon for the 21st century. from The nearest road that can be raced (Experienced Trainee) Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
BLOCKING - A weapon for the 21st century.
#5072: Aug 14th 2025 at 12:50:09 PM

I was about to say, moving it to Useful Notes like Mein Kampf may be preferrable here.

''There's no magic in tuning; yet, it's something that tends to escape from any logic."
Azorius24 Knight of Solace from the bonnie, bonnie banks o' Loch Lomond (Five Long Years) Relationship Status: love is a deadly lazer
Knight of Solace
#5073: Aug 14th 2025 at 2:22:48 PM

[up] X 4 - thanks! I feel there's a problem with moving to Useful Notes though — is the manifesto actually referenced frequently in media?

"The only thing which is certain, is that something will happen".
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#5074: Aug 14th 2025 at 3:38:28 PM

I can see the point of Industrial Society And Its Future as Non-Fiction Literature. But if it's too inflammatory, I'd rather cut it because to be in Useful Notes it needs to be, well, useful. It's not on Mein Kampf level of public recognition.

Edited by Amonimus on Aug 14th 2025 at 1:39:27 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
kory Admin (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Admin
#5075: Aug 14th 2025 at 3:41:46 PM

ya id say its not worth having

Now Monitoring Query Bugs and Query Wishlist

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