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I'll add that while Tony's Damage Control was Vulture's inciting incident, he stayed well away from actually antagonizing Tony. His motive was more to provide for his family and crew with a general 'well the rich will screw you over' vibe than specific anger at Tony.
Vulture's been at his operation for years & has never actually encountered Tony once.
Yeah Vulture didn't really give a damn about Stark aside from the initial "lost my job to something he's associated with" bit
I'd say both Vulture and Mysterio's inciting incident — the invitation to villainy, if you will — came from Tony Stark, but neither's motives had to do with Tony.
Honestly Tony is just for world-building & set-up.
Cause Stark Industries is the only explicit super corp with all the fancy gadgets & tech, its easier to write super-villains as originating in some form from the only place that can logically produce such people.
One thing I've seen lately is that people who haven’t read any Spider-Man comics or either of the preceding film franchises think 616 Mary Jane Watson is a boring "I’m weird, I’m a weirdo" character and Ned Leeds is a soft comedy relief BFF because of the mess the MCU has created with their supporting characters.
I think you are projecting a bit.
Comics Ned Leeds was no treat
And comics MJ has her own book now. She’s doing fine
It would have been cool if Rick Steves could have had a cameo in Far From Home.
Of course that wouldn't make much sense since the school trip is supposed to represent a typical European vacation and the whole point of Rick Steves' PBS show is to visit places in Europe most tourists avoid.
Watts had admitted he's never read a single Spider-Man comic, and he said MJ's only personality trait was her hair colour, invalidating every other aspect of her character. How can you go from "I've never read a Spider-Man comic" to "one of the most complex and iconic spider-man characters is boring ‘cause i said so" when you haven’t even read about her?
So... I saw the movie. And I really liked it. Better than Homecoming. Mysterio was great and it was fun watching it with my wife who doesn't know the character and was shocked with The Reveal.
That said... I'm thinking this movie needs an Idiot Plot entry.
Again, loved the movie. And technically none of these are even plotholes, but the movie really does seem to rely on some fantastically bad decisions from a lot of people.
It's kinda hard to think about "how didn't Fury notice" when you're being confronted with fighting clones of yourself and your zombie mentor while trapped in a snowglobe made out of a guy's head.
Edited by Tuckerscreator on Nov 4th 2019 at 11:10:23 AM
... god, I love that scene. But I meant in the beginning, where he's going "oh shit, Fury, it's an illusion! It's not real!" That's before all the Mind Rape.
People in their own settings don't approach situations like a Cinema Sins video. Peter's first thoughts when he sees things disappearing is "WTF, oh no here comes a robot with guns", not "let me inspect Fury's very real looking corpse while these robots that can blow up a bus approach me". Even when Ned and MJ knew they were staring at an illusion at London, it was hard for them to not be afraid of it.
Edited by Tuckerscreator on Nov 4th 2019 at 11:16:58 AM
Yeah, that's easily the biggest WTF of the movie. Especially since it comes through Nick Fury. Because if there's anybody that Tony Stark would trust to ferry his dangerous super-weapons, it's Nick Goddamn Fury.
Drake's Razor: Never attribute to cold, unfeeling logic that which can be equally explained by emotional reaction.
Peter Parker is a traumatized teenage boy who just watched Father Figure #3 die tragically and is consequentially ghosting on Nick Fury and, by extension, this whole Spider-Man thing. He's in a vulnerable state of mind right now, which makes him ripe for predation - particularly by a shiny new Father Figure #4. "Hi, I'm Tony Stark But Green! Nice to meet you, let me wow you with my awesomeness."
Gonna bring up my own Drake's Razor on that one too.
Mysterio's illusion is a master-class in manipulation. Why is it that a person, upon falling through the ice on a frozen lake, will try to pound against the ice above them rather than carefully and methodically searching for the hole they fell through? It's because people make bad choices when they panic.
Mysterio put Peter through a cascading landslide of WTF designed to keep him from knowing up from down. He attacked Peter physically and mentally. He even landed a solid shot right on Peter's Trauma Button. All to freak him out, then provide that instant relief of tension when "Fury" saves him.
Peter is not thinking, "Hmm. This person logically and reasonably behaves like Nick Fury and I see nothing wrong with this scenario." Peter is thinking, "OHSHIT OHSHIT OHSHIT THANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOU". After the nightmare trip he's just had, he is not in any condition to question the savior standing in front of him, and that's when Beck starts asking the questions that Peter would never have answered were he of sound mind.
Ways to confirm what may or may not have happened in a parallel universe? I can't really think of any.
S.H.I.E.L.D. doesn't exist anymore. Except in the show, which has never been factored into the films and never will be. So, basically, S.H.I.E.L.D. still doesn't exist anymore.
Given this fact, I think it's entirely reasonable that the "Nick Fury and his underground crew of miscellaneous buddies who are not S.H.I.E.L.D." organization is not especially large or prominent.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 4th 2019 at 12:33:21 PM
But that SHIELD thing is particularly weird since I would assume Fury would take over Natasha's Avengers. If anything, there should be a network in place more suited to these kinds of threats since the "infrastructure" as it were already exists. Granted, it's a conceit to the format that Superman Stays Out of Gotham but it's still... weird.
Regarding Berlin: I mean, yeah. I don't blame him but considering someone in-universe calls his action idiotic (well, "gullible" but splitting hairs) I don't think that's really defensible.
Regarding checking his story: I dunno, facial recognition software, asking Dr. Strange, hell, touching him at any point, any sort of testing or vetting. I know he's got a Mining Accident On Troy backstory, but his front story can be verified and I would expect (a skrull imitating) the most paranoid man on the planet to do more than trust him.
...why would you assume that? Fury wasn't even a member of the Avengers.
Logically, leadership would fall to one of the surviving members. Rhodey or Sam or Banner or someone. And that's if the Avengers even still exist after their headquarters was carpet-bombed to oblivion, all of their key leadership died or left, and their primary reason for existing was killed in a cosmic wave of catharsis.
The Avengers don't really have any reason to even be a thing anymore.
Facial recognition software needs to have a database of faces to match against. What database would Fury use? Keeping in mind that S.H.I.E.L.D. no longer exists and this is just Fury and some pals working out of a basement.
I mean, there's every possibility that they ran Beck's facial ID against an FBI database of wanted criminals and such. But they wouldn't have found anything doing that. It's unlikely that they'd go, "You know what? Let's cross-reference against Stark Industries employee ID files, just for a lark."
The facial recognition idea runs afoul of that whole "Fingerprinting can only ID you if your fingerprints have been put on file" thing. Quentin Beck has no reason to be in any criminal database, and Fury has no reason to psychically assume the correct database to check.
As for asking Dr. Strange, Fury doesn't even know Dr. Strange. Fury doesn't know anything about Dr. Strange. I'm not about to hold it against Fury that he didn't hunt down a magical wizard he's never met from a secret society he's never heard of and ask him to perform a magical background ID check.
Fury outright makes the point in this film that he's pretty much crippled compared to where he used to be. He's making the best out of what he has to work with.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 4th 2019 at 1:10:59 PM
Fury sometimes takes out a picture of Steve and yells at it for convincing him to burn down SHIELD
I love Talos. He hits that Everyman, “knows he’s stuck in a situation too extraordinary for his pay grade but deals with it anyway” vibe that Coulson did.
So I’m kind of afraid he’s going to die at some point.
I liked Talos more in Captain Marvel. He seems a little stupider in Far From Home, to say nothing of the weirdness that is treating the entirely fallible and human Carol Danvers like God.
I’m gonna cut Talos some slack.
Captain Marvel already showed us his impersonations are not perfect (Nicholas anyone?) so Jim not doing the background check on Beck is something I can buy.
He’s someone who likely knows the multiverse is entirely possible so his own expectations worked against him.
And finally, he’s likely so used to being the dude who fools people that it never occurred to him he could be fooled. He, ironically enough lacks the same paranoia that he’s been instilling in others for years.
Talos has been working with Carol for the better part of over 2 decades.
Clearly he would develop a very high opinion of her.
This is fair.
Yeah, well, "Do not invoke her name" still seems uncomfortably extreme for me.
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