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Spider-Man: Far From Home (spoilers)

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GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
Jul 2nd 2019 at 5:26:57 PM

I like how Beck seemed to genuinely like Peter. Or at least he believes he likes Peter.

Kaze ni Nare!
Dirtyblue929 Armchair Developer from A Very Deep Hole Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Armchair Developer
Jul 2nd 2019 at 7:05:25 PM

He likes Peter about as much as a murderous, sociopathic narcissist can like anyone. To his warped mind it was a legitimate friendship, but literally anyone else would consider it abusive manipulation.

Edited by Dirtyblue929 on Jul 2nd 2019 at 7:08:21 AM

"Oh no, I'm not brave enough for politics."
Jul 2nd 2019 at 7:13:52 PM

I think the best way to sum up Mysterio's regard for Peter is "nice kid, but he's still in my way." He came into that relationship intending to manipulate Peter, so nothing he did and none of their bonding was an accident, and while he didn't necessarily want him to end up dead, it comes off more as his plan not really needing him to end up dead, so Beck's response to it was more "meh."

I wonder how they're going to go on from the thread of Mysterio completely fucking up Peter's life.

The actual government and Avengers can vouch for Spider-Man not actually being the bad guy in the Mysterio situation, but if they choose to ignore that I could see this leading to a fugitive situation. It would give some credence to stuff like Scorpion's comics origin: where certain parties pay to empower supervillains to hunt down Spidey (a la his story in the comics' Civil War). I thought it would be a good place to go for introducing Kraven the Hunter as well. Or, hell, the rest of the Sinister Six in general.

If not, they could do a thing where nobody really knows what to think about Spidey. He's not under arrest, but nobody trusts him any more. Basically like the comics, except he doesn't have a secret identity, which will be... weird. He'll basically be forced to become a recluse, and that's no fun.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 2nd 2019 at 7:17:34 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
Weirdguy149 The sleeping royal from Galar Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
The sleeping royal
Jul 2nd 2019 at 7:17:07 PM

Since Kraven's probably the only popular old-school Spidey villain that hasn't had an appearance in a movie yet, he would be great for a hypothetical Spidey 3.

I say, fitting time for a nap, eh what?
Tuckerscreator from Traveling through the Multiverse Relationship Status: Drift compatible
Jul 2nd 2019 at 7:19:44 PM

With Peter possibly on the run now that his identity has been leaked, will the next film be called Spider-Man: Homeless?

“If your good mood was ruined because you got into an accident with a car...”
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
Jul 2nd 2019 at 7:20:33 PM

People REALLY want the Sinister 6.

I dunno, I kinda struggle imagining how the S Inister 6 would work in a film that isn't a massive crossover multipart ensemble.

Godzilla Final Wars sounds great until you realize that having every Kaiju possible in your movie just devalues all of them and leaves you with Godzilla curbstomping almost everything.

The Sinister 6 without ample screentime would just end up losing to Peter either really easily, anti-climactically, or just in a very rushed way. Since he needs to stop all of them in the span of one film.

Edited by GNinja on Jul 2nd 2019 at 2:21:50 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
HailMuffins Degenerate Supreme from Ceará, Brazil Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Degenerate Supreme
Jul 2nd 2019 at 7:20:39 PM

Spider-Man: Home Wrecked

Forever relevant.
slimcoder Black-Hearted Evil or Brave-Hearted Hero
Black-Hearted Evil or Brave-Hearted Hero
Jul 2nd 2019 at 7:24:15 PM

Kraven would be the perfect opponent to show that Peter has become a master.

He shows more noticeable improvement & competence in this movie compared to his fight with Vulture where he won more out of luck than true skill.

Can you see all of me? Walk into my mystery. Do you remember me? Capture you or set you free I am all. I am all... I am all of me
Jul 2nd 2019 at 7:24:19 PM

[up][up][up] I think this film sets up a reason for the Sinister Six that works. They're a Spider-Man Death Squad.

As for time, that's never really been a problem for these movies - mostly because they have a formula: Peter goes up against the threat the first time, loses. Peter goes up against the threat a second time, loses less badly but still comes off worse. Peter summons his gumption and goes up against the threat a third time, kicks ass.

Both movies pretty rigidly followed that formula, and while the primary difference is that the threat is a team rather than a single person, there's no reason overall for that to change the formula: especially if the Six have a central personality that can take point.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 2nd 2019 at 7:28:32 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
Jul 2nd 2019 at 7:28:26 PM

[up] My issue isn't about the sinister 6 making sense. Cuz there's several ways for it to make sense. For me it's about having 6 individual villains getting to shine and not going out like complete chumps in the span of a single movie.

That and I feel like most versions of the 6 end up having what feel like filler members (looking at you RHINO)

Kaze ni Nare!
Jul 2nd 2019 at 7:28:46 PM

And I just noted that that shouldn't be a problem for the film's storytelling, because of the formula the Homecoming films generally use.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 2nd 2019 at 7:29:12 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
slimcoder Black-Hearted Evil or Brave-Hearted Hero
Black-Hearted Evil or Brave-Hearted Hero
Jul 2nd 2019 at 7:31:59 PM

I'm hoping that when its time for the 6, they cut out the unnecessary fluff at that point.

Such as the rest of the students.

By the way I don't like Ned anymore. His relationship with Betty was annoying as shit.

Can you see all of me? Walk into my mystery. Do you remember me? Capture you or set you free I am all. I am all... I am all of me
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
Jul 2nd 2019 at 7:34:30 PM

[up][up] Based on the formula, the ending would be the problem actually. Because if it follows: "Peter loses, Peter loses HARDER, Peter kicks ass" then that means rather than one villain losing in the final fight. It's going to be 6 of them losing in the span of a single climax. Which sounds like a pacing and/or anticlimax mine field.

Edited by GNinja on Jul 2nd 2019 at 2:34:45 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
Jul 2nd 2019 at 7:37:01 PM

I might be misremembering, but I don't believe we ever actually see the "real" Maria Hill even in the second post credit scene.

So therefore....

wild mass guessMaria Hill exists only as a fake identity. She was always Soren from her very first appearance in the MCU having returned to Earth at some point between the end of Captain Marvel and the first Avengers movie. Nick Fury knew, but no one else. This is in part why Nick Fury always placed a large amount of trust in "Maria", as a Skrull she couldn't be involved in any Earthly conspiracy.wild mass guess

Edited by Falrinn on Jul 2nd 2019 at 10:51:00 AM

Jul 2nd 2019 at 7:46:06 PM

Writers and directors have been having Spidey take out the Sinister Six in the span of a single battle for decades. Even given that how long that battle has to be, how many stages it would involve, etc and so on, is not at all set in stone, there's no reason why he can't gauntlet through all of them at once and have it come off as everyone looking badass.

This fight goes on for six minutes out of a 22 minute show (and there's a later episode which imo has a longer and imo even better fight with the group). A film would obviously need it to be proportionally longer and with more content than just the fight itself, but it's a good example of how such a fight would function.

It helps that Homecoming has so far been doing it right with Spidey's villains. Both the Raimi and Webb Spider-Man films tried to enforce each villain he faced as being the most powerful, most dangerous thing he'd ever encountered up to that point. Which made the idea of Spidey actually fighting all of them together rather ludicrous: Webb's Electro was so powerful he could go anywhere with an electric wire and take out all of New York's power by himself - what's a guy like that going to do on a team?

But the Homecoming series, meanwhile, emphasizes them as regular people with extraordinary skills and abilities that give them an edge in some ways, but not to the point that they're overpowered. Vulture's got the wingsuit, but fights best when he's got control and only succeeds against a surprised or preoccupied Peter: beneath that, he's still an old man in a suit. Likewise Mysterio, who goes down in two hits once Spider-Man finally gets close. Both of them are aware of this, and a major part of their MO is avoiding confrontation with superheroes because they know fighting on their own is a risk.

That's how a team of supervillains functions best, imo, and it's why the Sinister Six specifically are so enduring. Rather than a team of the strongest, or a team of guys with lopsided threat levels, they're a team of people who each bring a certain kind of threat against Spidey that forces him off balance due to dealing with so many different strategies at once. But it also means their tactics are very specific, and thus it's believable when they can't all execute at the same time, or when Spidey makes their individual techniques rub against each other the wrong way, or even when Spidey isolates one away from the others to take them out.

There's probably more ways to portray a decent Sinister Six onscreen than most other villain groups because of that. A well conceived team makes for more options in regards to their use.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 2nd 2019 at 7:56:53 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
Jul 2nd 2019 at 8:01:44 PM

[up] See, this is when it just comes back to it being a me problem. And that's really annoying because it always makes me sound stupid.

I was never really big on that fight. Or at least, to me it wasn't primarily about getting across the competence of the Six. It was about showing off how powerful and unfettered the black suit was. I just can't imagine any way Peter beating the 6 all at once could make them look good as well.

Blech, I'm probably just depressed or something.

Edited by GNinja on Jul 2nd 2019 at 3:05:54 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
Weirdguy149 The sleeping royal from Galar Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
The sleeping royal
Jul 2nd 2019 at 8:05:08 PM

There's also the PS4 Spider-Man game if you want to see a Sinister Six plot done sort of competently. (I say sort of because it mostly focuses on two villains out of the six instead of all of them.)

I say, fitting time for a nap, eh what?
slimcoder Black-Hearted Evil or Brave-Hearted Hero
Black-Hearted Evil or Brave-Hearted Hero
Jul 2nd 2019 at 8:05:11 PM

I'm pretty sure Peter has beaten them all at once without the suit.

He just uses less brute force.

Can you see all of me? Walk into my mystery. Do you remember me? Capture you or set you free I am all. I am all... I am all of me
Jul 2nd 2019 at 8:07:18 PM

[up][up][up] Nah, opinions are opinions. One man's awesome is another man's meh. I think it would be cool, but you're not obligated to.

I'm just insistent that it would definitely work (as in, function well as a narrative/concept) as long as they don't fuck it up.

Another good thing to note is that if they do the Sinister Six, you can bet Vulture's going to have a Heel–Face Turn at the 11th hour, betray the others and help Spidey find the weak link in their tactics/weapons/whatever - so it would be more like Spidey plus Vulture vs the Felonious Five. And then Vulture will probably die, because that's how these stories typically go.

Also, unrelated, I still want Liz to return. She could convince her dad to help Spider-Man, then become Firestar in the end credits or something.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 2nd 2019 at 8:10:32 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
slimcoder Black-Hearted Evil or Brave-Hearted Hero
Black-Hearted Evil or Brave-Hearted Hero
Jul 2nd 2019 at 8:10:24 PM

I mean an all at once gauntlet is the only way to take them down in the finale.

I don't like the idea of slowly whittling them down over the course of the movie until 1 or 2 remains.

I'm reminded of a movie I saw a while ago, these sealed baddies where one got free early way before the rest of teammates & bit it at that moment. So when the rest of his team were freed in time for the big fight scenes their group was already down a member.

Can you see all of me? Walk into my mystery. Do you remember me? Capture you or set you free I am all. I am all... I am all of me
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
Jul 2nd 2019 at 8:15:04 PM

I think another thing for me is just something inherant to superhero comics that kinda bugs me to high heaven

I don't know why the Sinister 6 would ever openly exist. They live in a world with all these agengers who could just curbstomp them without any effort. Vulture was intentionally laying low and trying to not draw attention to himself. Mysterio was trying to be a hero and infiltrate the Avengers. But the 6...

Why would you openly be a villainous group in this world?

Kaze ni Nare!
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
Jul 2nd 2019 at 8:17:02 PM

I dunno, having your individual villains be so weak that Spidey alone can take them in a 6 on 1 handicap match rubs me the wrong way. It always will I think.

Kaze ni Nare!
Tuckerscreator from Traveling through the Multiverse Relationship Status: Drift compatible
Jul 2nd 2019 at 8:28:16 PM

Fun fact: the Iron Man scientist who returned in this film is played by Peter Billingsley, best known for playing Ralphie in A Christmas Story.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jul 2nd 2019 at 8:28:39 AM

“If your good mood was ruined because you got into an accident with a car...”
dmcreif from Lewisburg, PA Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Jul 2nd 2019 at 8:30:31 PM

[up]x2 Not exactly a Matt vs. Dex vs. Fisk three-way....

Edited by dmcreif on Jul 2nd 2019 at 10:30:41 AM

Never underestimate your audience. They’re generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment.
slimcoder Black-Hearted Evil or Brave-Hearted Hero
Black-Hearted Evil or Brave-Hearted Hero
Jul 2nd 2019 at 8:32:05 PM

I mean they are not really individually weak, they generally give Spidey enough trouble individually on a general basis.

Teaming up just makes them even more dangerous. That's why anytime the Six show up, its treated as a big deal.

[up][up][up][up] Where's the fun in living in fear?

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 2nd 2019 at 8:32:36 AM

Can you see all of me? Walk into my mystery. Do you remember me? Capture you or set you free I am all. I am all... I am all of me

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