She said that Nemesis was fighting for Humanity and Seiros for Dragonkind and boils down the Conflict between the two that started with his ruthless killing of Sothis and her Children in Zanado after turning the former into a sword when he raided her Tomb into a race war. Based on her hatred towards Dragonkind, she is firmly on his side of the war.

That her targets are a people with an ancestral god, who had to contend with Actual Nazis and genocide didn't helped at all. Edelgard is more or less just an New Atheist power fantasy, which has unfortunately a lot of racist and bigoted members. Edelgard's story also indulges in a lot of myths regarding the middle ages, which makes her bad history all he more fittingfor her Character, she bases her believes on lies and half-truths.

Edited by Tropetalker on Nov 27th 2020 at 3:40:50 PM

I mean yeah, that much I did know. What I have no idea is where the whole "Nemesis is my role model" thing came from.

Also, even though the Empire as a whole takes a ton of inspiration in the stuff you mention, it's still surprisingly manages to be far less extreme given 1. the Nabateans don't really need to be wiped out, and 2. Edelgard doesn't really have plans for world domination save for the whole AM episode where she becomes a Hegemon Husk (I will admit House Vestra being around can likely mitigate this however).

---

In a somewhat unrelated topic, I was browsing through all the unused stuff listed in TCRF when I noticed some of it might actually be referenced during 2 specific supports, specifically Petra & Bernie's B, where the latter gets chased by a rabbit (a scrapped meat), and Edelgard & Ferdie's B, in which the Horse Raising thing is brought up for competition shenanigans. While I'm fully aware this might be just me seeing stuff where there isn't, I can't deny this also implies the Beagles's supports could've been written very early into development, which would explain a few things.

Edited by Blackress on Nov 27th 2020 at 7:07:14 AM

I've been trying to figure out the approximate order in which the content was worked on, since a lot of the cut stuff involves scrapped monastery features and quests. And they definitely added the calendar system at a later point.

That she is basically on the same side as Nemesis regarding the Dragons and that she thinks it's fate that Byleth wields the same sword as him, even calling it destiny. She also hated Willhelm for siding with Rhea.

Edelgard in more than one ways admires Nemesis due to what I have already typed but also that he represents the very thing she wants to achieve: Hegemony and Power. Edelgard wants power to create a world free from Gods and to shape Society to become much stronger. She is if anything a lighter version of his ideals, which are the core problems of Fódlan. Desire for control(Adrestia), Glorifcation of war and violence (Fearghus) and liberty in the "fuck you, got mine" way(Alliance). He is the origin behind the Crest system and yet Edelgard Glorified him as a freedom fighter for Humanity in her "version" of events.

Now that you mention it, a datamine of the calendar could potentially reveal not only when it was created developed-wise, but also answer the long-lasting question of whether Crimson Flower should be considered unfinished or rushed. While there is a ton of internal stuff suggesting it was planned to be short and end with Rhea, the build-up TWSITD receive during it cannot be ignored either, and depending on whether data exists for CF past month 5 (and if it is copy-pasted from other route or not) could do wonders.

Shambhala is apparently connected to Crimson Flower in the data, placed between Lady of Deceit and A Field of Revenge.

https://www.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemThreeHouses/comments/jy20b5/been_doing_more_datamining_and_looks_like_this/

Interesting video on Crimson Flower, its flaws, and trying to fix them.

Tl;dw this person thinks Crimson Flower has two major problems: less content (chapters, animated cutscenes, etc) than the other routes and a lack of context for understanding Edelgard's decisions.

The fix would be to add a new reunion chapter a la the other routes, but this time the Alliance would be trying to take it over to launch an offensive against the Empire, providing more justification for them invading Leicester. The big change, though, would be to add more chapters focusing on another surviving Hresvelg sibling transformed into a "Helot Husk" and wiping out the Agarthans.

While I don't agree with all of it (I think that Edelgard's hatred for the Crest-based system is a more interesting motivation than being manipulating by Those Who Dubstep), I do think the video raises interesting ideas.

Okay, if that was ever supposed to be on CF, it's not in the same "cut too late to fix the calendar" state that Gronder II on SS is.

I've seen it. I disagree with the idea right now that CF was unfinished and I think having Patricia herself instead of a surviving sis/bro of Edelgard would be better if the plot had taken that direction.

Also IMO the main reason Edelgard's motives can be fuzzy is because some stuff of hers is hidden behind supports and specific scenes from other routes. That, and to incentivize replayability maybe????? (I don't really get some of the decisions the devs took honestly)

Interesting, though I'm not exactly sure if that's enough proof Shambhala was planned for CF given both Silver Snow and Crimson Flower maps load slot 1 when they use a specific map (by comparison, AM and VW always use slot 2 and 3 respectively).

That, and there's some weird stuff about this: 1) Edelgard isn't a forced deployment even though every story map in the War Phase forces your lord (or just Byleth in SS) to be in a specific spot on the map, and 2) CF would have literally reused the map with no changes whatsoever.

I definitively need to check that reddit more often.

EDIT: That dude has found far more stuff than I expected, and some things don't match up.

Apparently there's some evidence it would've happened somewhere after Lady of Deceit (Ch 16) but before Field of Revenge (Ch 17). Taking into account CF's unique level scaling and the claim the game would've reused the exact same chapter with no visible changes whatsoever, three more chapters at the very least should've happened before the crew had gotten to Shambhala. Hmm...

IIRC the reason Gronder 2 in SS/CF is almost completely bare is because slot 1 (the BE slot) was never filled with anything beyond the basic script used to load the map.

Edited by Blackress on Nov 27th 2020 at 10:42:53 AM

SS literally skips a month as a result of Gronder II never being implemented, which means the idea of having that map there was probably dropped relatively late; this one seems like it was cut before the chapter order was finalized.

So let's see, if the idea was that TWSITD nuking Arianrhod would result in El immediately going after them (instead of having a case of Skewed Priorities and telling a motivational lie to her army)... Yeah, okay. Rhea's not your ally on this route, so who was going to stop Thales from nuking Shambhala?

Yeah, the evidence definitively doesn't add up. More stuff besides this has been allegedly found though, so it might be best to wait for the whole picture before jumping to conclusions.

Then again, if I had to make one with the limited info we have, then it would be that this is proof Shambhala would've been visited in a very early draft of CF.

The idea that you should appoint whoever is best suited to the job is the foundation of democracy. It's also the foundation for student grants and social programs designed to help lower class students to compete with the upper class, as well as affirmative action policies intended to counteract racism ans sexism in hiring practices. It's also the reason behind anti-bribery and anti-nepotism laws.

And if you don't appoint people based on professional and ethical ability, what are you gonna base it on instead? Racial purity? Bribery? Nepotism? Lot-drawing? Astrology? Haruspicy? Rock paper scissors?

Either Edelgard made an Temporary Alliance or Hubert somehow deactivates these Javelins or something like that.

Speaking about Data mining, was Nader programmed into Hilda's and Cyril's Paralouge.

No the idea of Democracy is that the people have the power and they decide how stuff is done, not an hierarchy based on something as broad as merit. Meritocracy runs counter to Egalitarianism and while we want skilled people in jobs, we have no accurate or fair measurement to do so.

For an FE Example: Should you train the mage who starts off with better stats and is much earlier available, but has bad growths and is already promoted or the mage with lower stats and comes later into the party, but has MUCH better growths and can promote into many classes?

Edited by Tropetalker on Nov 27th 2020 at 7:56:35 PM

Dorothea's ending with Edelgard mentions Enbarr and the opera house being "restored" so presumably an earlier version of CF had Enbarr get blown up.

Potentially making AM the only route where Shambhala wasn't going to be visited, huh...

I dunno. I'm generally against the idea of using Dummied Out content to interpret the developers' intentions. They clearly had way too many Great Ideas™ for this game, some of those were bound to get axed even without the supposed time/budget issues.

Edited by YnK on Nov 27th 2020 at 10:55:45 AM

Speaking about Shambahla. Did you knew that there was an door on the far eastern side of the map, next to the door where you can enter the area? I heard that Claude/Khalid will give an interesting comment on the door, if you placed him there. Is this confirmed?

Also why do the Agarthans write stuff in Russian? Is this an reference to Helena Blavatsky?

Unlikely. I checked that ending's japanese script with two different translators (good 'ol google and Deep L), and neither of them mention restoring Enbarr, just that a new opera show began in Enbarr's opera house.

I personally don't mind using evidence of scrapped stuff to state What Could Have Been scenarios on the wiki as long there is enough proof left backing them up. So far, I still think it's early to jump ship and say "OMG EDELGARD'S ROUTE WAS UNFINISHED I TOLD YOU GUYS".

Yeah it is. It's meant to hint Bias (or Pittacus, can't recall which) is hiding on the room nearby, as killing them either disables the Viskam turrets or the infinite Titanus reinforcements (also can't recall which is for which).

No, I was talking about an door on the outer ring hugging the wall. If you zoom the Camera, you see a little door that looks like the Cryochamber of Nemesis and his 10 Elites as I theorized. It's not the door leading to the station of the Titanus.

There's too many unknown variables here, but the pre-promo is almost always the answer here. Even if the Est has 60% in a growth and the pre-promo has 25%, the Est is only catching up, on average, about 1 point every 3 levels. Not only do they need to overcome the pre-promo's bases, but also gain a significant enough stat advantage to make that investment worthwhile. This means the Est often needs upwards of 30-40 levels to even get there. If they even get there. Unless the potential classes the Est have are insanely powerful (Dark Flier access in 3H would be a pretty good example), there's often little practical reason to pick the Est.

The notion of this kind of measurement being unfair is a little odd, though. Both units are on the same level up and promotion systems. In-universe, the pre-promo is already assumed to have put the effort in to get where they are (given that there's only a set subset of actions that give EXP). In a sense of merit, the pre-promo is legitimately better qualified because they've already done all the things the Est would need to do in the future.

That's interesting and I do agree with you to some extent, but in a real scenario, having someone who has shown high aptitude and skill despite inexperience can easily be better than someone who learned that but needed longer. Nino has shown more talent with Magic than most of the cast as she not only taught it all by herself, Erk and his teacher were surprised by her. I could have chosen a better example with an Tennis player that is slower than the one who has little experience with Tennis, but I wanted to make the point that making such judgments on a society-wide level is hard.

Well, you still have to take into account experience. That prodigy doesn't do anyone any good being thrust into a minister's position when they haven't even learned the ropes yet. Like, yeah, sure, Nino, in-universe, surprises Pent and Erk (her gameplay stats are another story, though), but that doesn't mean she deserves to be Mage-General of Etruria. Out on the battlefield, Nino is, for a very long time, a major liability, whereas Pent isn't.

In the case of a Tennis player, it would still generally be better to take the more experienced one. Help the prodigy get there eventually, but don't put them in any high-stakes situations.

Taking a cold, logical approach makes the judgment a lot less hard (though far from trivial). Problem is, nepotism is the default form of selection, so almost none of that stuff really matters.

Edited by KuroiTsubasaTenshi on Nov 27th 2020 at 2:54:11 PM

It's wierd to claim that meritocracy is unegalitarian when democracy is fundamentally meritocratic. People vote for politicians based on who they consider to have the best ploicies, the mostintegrity and the most political skill and experience.

Who they consider the best =/= Actually being the best. That right there ahould be obvious with the former president currently in office, indeed plenty of presidents don't amount to much or were ultimately ill fit for the role.

As Einstein himself was clear to Israel, he had no desire fo lead it bexause his skills were not fit to leading a nation, yet they came to him because they thought he was the best for then job.

There is an idea that runs right into being Meritocratic, and is a fantasy. That is the American Dream.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Nov 27th 2020 at 12:57:10 PM

Uh, people vote based more on tribalistic, party-defined chest-beating.

3x No it isn't, because Democracy in its purest form is having the people to rule the land and for that education and equal rights are Nesseary. Meritocracy is a form where the most skilled rule, which is impossible because what Society considers skilled is not skilled in other countries, for instance was Trump seen as skilled while people in Germany or France for instance would find him weak.

Meritocracy is only fair, if everyone has the same starting point, but they don't and that's why it's unfair. Your problem is that just because skill is used as a measurement for how one should be treated, it's going to be inherently fair.

Shall I just link the video that explains why Edelgard's system sucks or not?

True, Someone more experienced for the job is better for tasks that are more difficult for an Prodigy. In sports allowing rookies to go while not the best idea is inconsequential in the grand scheme of things and they could learn fast, especially if they have a budding talent for it. In FE, an Est like Nino can still be trained very well and become very powerful and lorewise she even surprises Pent, though he is better because he starts with already good bases and decent growths. However when we compare Sothe to Edward, the prodigy wins in the end out in comparison to the already experienced guy, because he has become too old or doesn't have the talents the other have.

Also regarding voting, it's true that party interest matter, it's also true that people really neat to see someone good to become president, even though some people have terrible standards.

Edited by Tropetalker on Nov 27th 2020 at 10:12:04 AM