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Fire Emblem Three Houses (Spoiler Thread)

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RedHunter543 Nothing is absolute. Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Nothing is absolute.
Jul 31st 2020 at 7:26:51 PM

[up][up][up] Yeah but most people in the fandom act like Edelgard is a violent manipulative psychopath who wants to genocide people and dragons and bullied Dimitri.

So i say give them what they want. XD.

[up] Clearly her Leia hair is a crime of some sort.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jul 31st 2020 at 7:27:26 AM

Jul 31st 2020 at 7:28:51 PM

Violent, manipulative, and quick to justify killing Dimitri and Dragons are true.

Psychopath? No.

Just a Teenager who thinks she has a better understanding of the world than anyone else? Yes.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Jul 31st 2020 at 7:30:23 AM

RedHunter543 Nothing is absolute. Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Nothing is absolute.
Jul 31st 2020 at 7:29:57 PM

[up] Might as well have her kick puppies then.

I mean think about it, Ashnard and Zenos had coherent ideologies.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jul 31st 2020 at 7:31:00 AM

Jul 31st 2020 at 7:35:00 PM

Honestly Edelgard has better understanding of her ideology than the more...crazed fans do.

Because if they saw fit shes a socialist liberator seeking to destroy all hierarchies everywhere foreverDont tell them what Meritocracies actually are. Its funnier thst way.

RedHunter543 Nothing is absolute. Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Nothing is absolute.
Jul 31st 2020 at 7:35:42 PM

[up] I thought Dimitri was the Socialist and Edelgard was the capitalist.

Jul 31st 2020 at 7:38:26 PM

I wouldnt go that far for either, as I dont think Edelgard understands just how much power money can give people.

And Dimitri still has a hierrarchy, just one that is more prototype for maybe a parliament one day.

RedHunter543 Nothing is absolute. Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Nothing is absolute.
Jul 31st 2020 at 7:42:49 PM

[up] Edelgard: "burns the Church's money" It's not about the money, it's about sending a message. Tell your people they are part of Adrestia now.

Rhea: They won't work for a wicked girl like you.

Edelgard: WICKED?! How about i cut you up into pieces and feed you to your white beasts? You wanna know how loyal a hungry beast is?

Jul 31st 2020 at 7:50:24 PM

Red: When I used that example a couple of chapters ago, I wasn’t saying they SHOULD always change the dialogue, I was making a point that they never change as much as they could, even if it would maybe benefit (and AM does cut Rhea demanding Edie’s head, if only because Dimitri overtaking the scene pretty much forces her hasty retreat).cool

I imagine your guest would agree with me, specifically on the matter of Edie’s death being a one-for-one for SS and VW if/when she knows they just reused the same damned scenesad... Oh, and speaking of which you never told us who died at Gronder this time around (let alone who of these was recruited; plus Ashe and the Eagles, I forget who if anyone you said she has on this playthrough).

[up][up][up][up][up][up][up][up] Hubert, while genuinely capable of malice and spite, isn’t so petty as to be cruel for s*its and giggles no matter how much he acts like it; Jeritza, while I find the depiction of HIS mental illness questionable (compared to Dimitri’s) and do not give him a pass, will not do so when in his right state of mind at least. Another of Edelgard’s virtues is that she doesn’t abide truly sadistic individuals - she’ll tolerate them if she feels she needs to, but has no genuine affection and will eliminate them give the chance (as seen on CF with the plausible deniability her killing Cornelia at Arianhrod has, plus the epilogue).

[up][up][up]/[up][up]/[up] On a bit of a parody binge while we discuss the Edie/Dimi politics for the upteenth time, eh? Fun.wink

Edited by CaellachTigerEye on Aug 1st 2020 at 12:54:11 AM

RedHunter543 Nothing is absolute. Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Nothing is absolute.
Jul 31st 2020 at 8:09:45 PM

[up] Yeah. I'm a funny guy.

Clearly Edelgard is capitalist. Look how much gold bars i got while on a Black Eagles run.

While Dimitri is a socialist. He snapped a guy's neck and crushed another dude's skull.

Fair treatment for all.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jul 31st 2020 at 8:11:46 AM

Jul 31st 2020 at 8:18:25 PM

The Dimitri one did make me giggle.[lol]

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Jul 31st 2020 at 8:19:44 AM

RedHunter543 Nothing is absolute. Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Nothing is absolute.
Jul 31st 2020 at 8:22:53 PM

After King Dimitri assumed the throne, Adrestia had to install healing staffs for all because Dimitri broke all the bones of the surviving Imperial troops.

When asked for a comment, King Dimitri merely grabbed a chair and beat the reporter on the scene.

MisterTambourineMan The Tender of Blooms from Under a tree Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
The Tender of Blooms
Jul 31st 2020 at 8:33:53 PM

For the record, I don't see Crimson Flower as something intended to be the villain route. I just see it as one that runs into Unintentionally Unsympathetic.

@Fred: Fair point. I did get carried away. Let me see if I can organize and explain my thoughts better.

  • Edelgard does not significantly change in Crimson Flower.
    • Edelgard's starting goals: Expand the Empire to its pre-Loog borders, destroy the Co S, Institute Meritocracy.
    • Edelgard's starting methods: Military conquest, working with the Slitherers
    • What Edelgard ends up doing: Expanding the Empire to its pre-Loog borders, destroying the Co S, Instituting Meritocracy.
    • How Edelgard ends up doing it: Conquering Fodlan with her army, killing Rhea with the magic axe the Slitherers gave her, working with the Slitherers.
      • Conclusion: Neither Edelgard's goals nor means change.
    • Edelgard's starting view of Nabateans: They're monsters in human form lacking the positive traits we would associate with "humanity".
    • Edelgard's final view of Nabateans: The same. Throughout the game, Edelgard directly connects Rhea's species to her perceived character failings, up through their final battle.
    • Edelgard's starting view of religion: Negative. She believes that religion is a crutch for "weak" people.
    • Edelgard's ending view of religion: The same. At most, she recognizes that their are a few "good ones" like Manuela. This does not translate into any differences in her interactions with other characters, and her shared ending with Manuela does not mention any differences in policy or attitude compared to Edelgard's other endings.
      • Conclusion: Edelgard's opinion of those she dislikes does not change.
    • In no route do any characters learn that Edelgard was responsible for the assassination attempt that began the game.
    • In other routes, this fits in with Edelgard's position as a villain.
    • The narrative of Crimson Flower fundamentally agrees with Edelgard's outlook (Edelgard believes if she conquers Fodlan, destroys the Co S, and institutes a meritocracy it will lead to a better age for Fodlan; the ending bears this out).
    • As Edelgard's assassination attempt is never discovered by the other characters or acknowledged later in the story, CF does nothing to reconcile this action with Edelgard's portrayal as a hero.
      • While it may not have been the intended meaning, this can be interpreted as saying that Edelgard's assassination attempt should be seen as acceptable as part of CF's stance that The Extremist Was Right.

Sterok Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Jul 31st 2020 at 8:38:31 PM

There's never a moment in CF where anyone in the Empire meaningfully goes, "Are we the baddies? Yeah probably.", and it is a happy ending, so it can be hard to see it as a villain route.

Your preferences are not everyone else's preferences.
RedHunter543 Nothing is absolute. Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Nothing is absolute.
Jul 31st 2020 at 8:43:14 PM

Here's what the final confrontation should have been like.

Rhea: You think yourself above judgement? Do not think your reckoning won't come to you wicked girl.

Edelgard: I've had plenty of sins, but regrets? Never. When the day comes for my reckoning i welcome it with open arms, but you won't be the judge. It would be nice to have a world where we can settle our differences in ideology peacefully, but the world is what it is, and that's why we have weapons.

[up] [up] As a someone who enjoys CF, i actually agree with some of your points, good solid arguments there.

Like yeah, the assassination attempt at the start is never brought up either on CF or any other routes to make the conflict with Edelgard more persona.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jul 31st 2020 at 8:45:04 AM

Jul 31st 2020 at 9:38:13 PM

[up]x2 There is one side choice where you get something akin to that with Sylvain, and you have to make a specific choice for him to be open about how he really feels about Edelgards invasion and Hubert.

Jul 31st 2020 at 11:08:31 PM

Admittedly, it’s kind of funny that you can take EVERY optional dialogue that Edelgard doesn’t like (lowing her Support points), get the prompt to accompany her to Enbarr, join her... and STILL take any optional dialogue that criticises her, only for the same sappy ending cinematic to play regardless.

This explaining why people don’t like “Choice without Consequence” that is pretty old hat in many an RPG, but I personally find the disconnect hilarious.grin

Now, to write/find an OC/SI-Insert fanfic where said character pisses Hubert off by insulting Edelgard, only for them to give him a conniption and HER a broken brain by gushing over how “cool” and “sexy” they find his “dark, broody edginess”.smilewaii[lol]

RedHunter543 Nothing is absolute. Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Nothing is absolute.
Jul 31st 2020 at 11:10:08 PM

[up] My guest would really love that.

mariovsonic999 Lo L Dating Sim is a real thing.
Lo L Dating Sim is a real thing.
Aug 1st 2020 at 12:30:57 AM

So you're telling me that conquering the world unapologetic isn't a villain route.

Fire Emblem Heroes Code: 4547311645 Fate/Grand Order Code: 188037115
RedHunter543 Nothing is absolute. Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Nothing is absolute.
Aug 1st 2020 at 12:35:15 AM

[up] Conquering one continent really.

World domination is too much for even Edelgard.

INB 4 someone here twists that to make Edelgard even more selfish and deny her noble demon qualities.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Aug 1st 2020 at 12:38:48 PM

Druplesnubb Editor of Posts
Editor of Posts
Aug 1st 2020 at 1:13:35 AM

Edelgard's main cahracter arc on CF is accepting that it's okay to rely on others and that she doesn't have to shoulder everything herself.

Yumil Mad Archivist
Mad Archivist
Aug 1st 2020 at 1:18:58 AM

[up][up][up]from a watsonian perspective ? No. There's never a moment where the story, or the characters, in any way, call attention to the morality of what they're doing and wonder if they're the bad guys. Compare with Conquest and how much time Corrin spends beating themselves up for joining Nohr.

The story plays as straight-laced heroic as possible, and ends with a happy ending that plays itself as completely morally clean.

If CF was intended to be a villain route, they kinda completely missed the ball on that font, cause it's a villain route where the story isn't aware of what it is.

Now from a Doylist perspective you can see that you're siding with what's the antagonistic faction of the rest of the game and that Edelgard is easily the most morally questionnable lord, but those aren't things you learn by playing CF.

Edited by Yumil on Aug 1st 2020 at 10:22:21 AM

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."
YnK Badass Superdeformed from Place Beyond Time
Badass Superdeformed
Aug 1st 2020 at 1:29:59 AM

Considering the disgusting way CF flip-flops between being a villain route and a "we're the real heroes and everyone else is an idiot or a fanatic" route, I think the devs didn't quite figure out what they wanted to do with El.

Because it seems like they were just going for the Villain Has a Point trope, and that ended up conflicting with their idea of grey morality.

[up][up] Unfortunately it's kind of undermined by (a) Byleth's presence having a positive effect on their chosen Lord regardless of the route, and (b) the game's apparent love of the Love Redeems trope as El's crush on Byleth is explicitly romantic. The Black Eagles are kind of just there.

Edited by YnK on Aug 1st 2020 at 1:33:44 AM

Koi seji to / mitarashigawa ni / seshi misogi / kami wa ukezu zo / nari ni kerashi mo (KKS #501)
RedHunter543 Nothing is absolute. Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Nothing is absolute.
Aug 1st 2020 at 1:31:39 AM

[up][up] Well at least the writing for anti-heroic factions is getting better like compare Conquest to Crimson Flowers. For all of Corn's beating themselves up over stuff, they really don't do much evil.

Maybe one of these days we will have a true Villain Lord. And they will be a mage.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Aug 1st 2020 at 1:32:31 AM

YnK Badass Superdeformed from Place Beyond Time
Badass Superdeformed
Aug 1st 2020 at 1:35:37 AM

[up] Evil mages are kind of a cliche, no?

Koi seji to / mitarashigawa ni / seshi misogi / kami wa ukezu zo / nari ni kerashi mo (KKS #501)
Druplesnubb Editor of Posts
Editor of Posts
Aug 1st 2020 at 1:35:47 AM

The story plays as straight-laced heroic as possible, and ends with a happy ending that plays itself as completely morally clean.

I disagree. For example, look at the scene where Edelgard lies to her classmates about who blew up Arianrhod. That scene is explicitly framing her actions in a very shady light. Cf also treats the enemies you fight much more sympathetically on avergae than the other routes, and it also features a lot of enemies explicitly calling out the player.


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