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Fire Emblem Three Houses (Spoiler Thread)

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dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#41401: Feb 25th 2025 at 7:53:08 PM

But that does really fit them, albeit I feel they might be too racist to share even the simplest piece of tech they have with the surface people.

They do share some tech with surface people, with the Heroes' Relics and Hubert's Paralogue being the most obvious examples. It's just that in the latter, it's mostly so they can sneer at you and continue being assholes to the people who pulled their asses out of the fire. And they mostly save the "best stuff" for themselves.


Which of course goes along with how the Slithers' influence has been present throughout Fodlan's history all this time.

I've mentioned it before, but one of the fun things about writing fanfic about a Fodlan that didn't have Slitherer influence as big as in the main game is how many things would end up changing. No Church of Seiros, no white-haired Edelgard, no Crests or Heroes' Relics, etc.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Feb 25th 2025 at 8:12:58 AM

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#41402: Feb 25th 2025 at 8:03:18 PM

I was thinking in the context of commercial tech that could actually improve lives not military gear.

And considering the possibility that the Slithers are genuinely incompatible with Crests, it makes sense they would give the relics to Nemesis and his allies.

I always assumed they were banking on him starting a bad enough war that it would decimate the population numbers to allow the Slithers to move in.

I’m not actually sure if they ever stated what their plan was for him after he killed Sothis and the Nabateans.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Mullon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
#41403: Mar 7th 2025 at 5:08:11 AM

It ends up playing this game on the hardest difficulty after a two year absence is a bad idea.

Never trust anyone who uses "degenerate" as an insult.
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#41405: Mar 24th 2025 at 11:51:45 AM

Would Edelgard be Chaos rep?

Just Makima.
dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#41406: Mar 24th 2025 at 11:58:01 AM

[up]She feels more like Law to me overall. Imperialism and imposing one’s will on others is a major aspect of Law. Claude is more of a Chaos rep since his vision shakes up the status quo more than Edelgard’s does.

Of course, Shin Megami Tensei V Vengeance went with slightly more different aspects of Law and Chaos, and in that case I could see Edelgard as that game’s version of Chaos even if her actions also mirror those of the God of Law and (spoilers for Vengeance) Marduk.

They might fit better with the star sign alignments of Devil Survivor 2. I’d personally put Edelgard as Cardinal, Dimitri as Fixed, and Claude as Mutability.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Mar 24th 2025 at 12:48:37 PM

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
asterism from the place I'm at Since: Apr, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#41407: Mar 24th 2025 at 12:28:26 PM

Meritocracy is a lighter version of the traditional Chaos "every man for himself" ideology; modern games give it more of a theme of freedom and fresh starts

Bewitching Eyes
dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#41408: Mar 24th 2025 at 12:33:41 PM

Meritocracy is also a form of Law, as it can be a way to reinforce hierarchies. There’s reason why Yamato from Devil Survivor 2 is not Chaos; he’s Cardinal.

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
ShirowShirow Dinosaur Hunter from Land of Maple Syrup (Old as dirt)
Dinosaur Hunter
#41409: Mar 24th 2025 at 1:21:20 PM

Everyone seems to consider Edelgard the Chaos Rep, on Reddit and Tumblr and others. Myself included. This is actually a topic that comes up fairly often, SMT x FE is definitely an example of Friendly Fandoms thanks to parallel story beats. This goes doubly for Three Houses Despite (Or perhaps because of) it missing out on the Mirage Sessions crossover.

Edelgard's whole goal is "Smash the system, no matter the cost". Can't get much more chaotic than that.

You are not alone.
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#41410: Mar 24th 2025 at 1:27:37 PM

V would easily be a case where you can say she’s Law. Especially as Meritocracy is just another form of Order.

Yoko is the kind of character you’d think would fit in Black Eagles but are actually the types to radicalize her more and make her go for the most extreme form of destroying all forms of hierarchy and Oppression. Thus her inevitable betrayal if she was part of the Black Eagles to destroy Adrestia as well.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Apr 14th 2025 at 3:21:33 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#41411: Mar 24th 2025 at 1:38:13 PM

[up]V is also no stranger to Law-aligned characters trying to shake up the system. It’s why I brought up the God of Law and Marduk.

I do agree that Yoko and Edelgard would come to blows if they ever met, since their end goals have some pretty important differences and Edelgard almost certainly wouldn’t be on board with a total reset.

It does make me chuckle a little that in a Vengeance crossover, you could say that Sothis is comparable to the Serpent in a way, since she’s the dragon in a Chaoskampf story. And the power of the serpent is rebirth, after all.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Mar 24th 2025 at 5:01:03 AM

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#41412: Mar 24th 2025 at 1:51:55 PM

Edelgard would also get along with Chiaki from Nocturne considering they both get white hair and eventually lose their humanity for power.

Just Makima.
Leliel Since: Aug, 2009
#41413: Apr 7th 2025 at 7:52:19 PM

Ho-kay, wasn't aware of this thread when I edited in Broken Aesop.

I feel what I wrote is improved over the last take, as while your side is generally the most sympathetic thanks to Byleth's presence, I feel like there's still an Unreliable Expositor issue caused by Crimson Flower. In Dimitri's route, for instance, his self-destructive path is brought up and confronted, but I feel like the fact that Edelgard is the aggressor in Crimson Flower and never actually owns up to the fact she was in league with the Agarthans on-screen (as far as I can tell - there's not a specific subplot about the fallout with them), even begrudgingly, makes it harder to notice that she's just as flawed in her route than others - not great for a game that emphasizes the moral grayness of all sides and that everyone is supposed to have their issues. Thus, I'd argue the Protagonist-Centered Morality always makes it seem like your side is the best, which doesn't gel well with the intended themes, even if the idea is that Byleth is improving things.

Plus, we never do see how the Agarthans see the world, which is a little off considering that Always Chaotic Evil kind of clashes with the intended moral grayness. It feels like at least getting their spin on things, even if the next step is "nah, you people are monsters" would strike a better note.

Edited by Leliel on Apr 7th 2025 at 7:57:08 AM

Raxis Since: Jan, 2001
#41414: Apr 7th 2025 at 8:15:53 PM

Someone remind me, did we ever even decide what the aesop of Three Houses was even supposed to be? We have to first decide on that before we can decide if an aesop was broken.

Also, as ynk put it the last time this came up, all sides are supposed to be well-meaning but flawed, with the side Byleth choosing being the one that comes out best, but this is by intention, and is directly addressed by the other houses leaders you didn't choose.

I would agree that the Agarthans are a noticeable except to the game's Gray-and-Gray Morality, but I'm unsure if their exception breaks any aesops.

Edited by Raxis on Apr 7th 2025 at 8:19:14 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#41415: Apr 7th 2025 at 9:11:16 PM

[up][up] But we do see how the Agarthans view the world several times. They repeatedly compare the people of the surface to beasts and claim the world belongs to them.

Hell, there's even a book written from their point of view that has them admit they spilled a lot of blood, but still hate the Goddess.

Hell, Crimson Flower's finale has Thales basically state his motive to the audience "Even better. I decided I wanted to see the end with my own eyes. The very moment that humans will finally be free from the control of that false beast of a goddess.."

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#41416: Apr 7th 2025 at 9:53:50 PM

And as I've mentioned before, the Slitherers being pure evil is not a bad thing. It serves the narrative role them being foils to Edelgard, Dimitri, Claude, and Rhea; their evilness and flaws help prop up those four major characters.

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#41417: Apr 7th 2025 at 9:57:44 PM

Heck, there even is a playable Agarthan with Epimenides and he's still pretty evil in his one paralogue.

You know, here's something I've been thinking about, if even the evil faction that's meant to be a bad example, still thinks of themselves as the heroes, does it give the slight good qualities that keeps them in a VERY dark grey or does thinking of themselves as good make them worse and keep them in the firm black part of the morality scale?

Solon proudly proclaims himself THE SAVIOR OF ALL, while in a burning village, surrounded by crazed villagers he experimented on, so I'd say this makes them more evil, but at the same time, it fits the themes of the game where everyone thinks of their side as the good guys.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Apr 8th 2025 at 12:58:12 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#41418: Apr 7th 2025 at 10:47:13 PM

You know, here's something I've been thinking about, if even the evil faction that's meant to be a bad example, still thinks of themselves as the heroes, does it give the slight good qualities that keeps them in a VERY dark grey or does thinking of themselves as good make them worse and keep them in the firm black part of the morality scale?

Considering what said evil faction does in the game, them thinking of themselves as heroes doesn't really give them "slightly good qualities." It just makes them come across as either delusional or having their heads stuck very far up their own asses.

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#41419: Apr 7th 2025 at 10:56:42 PM

Yeah it's delusional for sure, and it does fit in with the game's themes of how everyone thinks of themselves as the hero which is part of the reason they made Shez to really show you the player of what you as Byleth looked like to enemy mooks but it does lead to an Agarthan doing good things for their group in limited capacities.

Epimenides makes it a point to prioritize the Agarthans working under him in his paralogue, and Hubert's paralogue has Thales petition the Black Eagles to go save some Agarthans whose experiments went wrong.

So they have the capacity to care for their own in-group even if it's a warped kind of affection. So does that capacity make them MORE evil because they understand what they are inflicting on the surface people and double standard it when it comes to their genocides backfiring and they face consequences, or does it make them SLIGHTLY less evil in that they can care for each other?

Because in their narrative, they are the good guys, spilling the blood of others means nothing as long as their group prospers, so there's a warped kind of moral code.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Apr 8th 2025 at 1:57:37 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#41420: Apr 7th 2025 at 11:27:04 PM

It's a double standard, same as the one real life genocidaires have. They can have some empathy for others in their in-group, but everyone else are just beasts who need to have a final solution applied to them. It makes them worse. It makes them so much worse.

Edited by M84 on Apr 8th 2025 at 2:27:20 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#41421: Apr 7th 2025 at 11:52:15 PM

Yeah, I'm not justifying them at all, just to be clear, just raising a question about whether their double standards humanize them in a warped way or make them worse.

As we see in the book, they don't see anything wrong about spilling blood, but they will act all indignant if Sothis judges them, to the point they will blow up the planet if it spites her while acting like this is for the good of all humanity.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#41422: Apr 7th 2025 at 11:55:59 PM

It doesn't humanize them in the sense that it makes them sympathetic. It humanizes them in a way that makes them more like real life human monsters. Real life humans have double standards aplenty, and sometimes said double standards reach truly horrifying levels.

Edited by M84 on Apr 8th 2025 at 2:56:34 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#41423: Apr 7th 2025 at 11:58:45 PM

Yeah that's true, humanize in the sense it makes their evil more real even if it is wrapped up in a fantasy setting, that's the better meaning I was looking for.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#41424: Apr 8th 2025 at 12:59:02 AM

And like I've said before, it's fitting that in a game where teaching is a central mechanic, the worst faction of all is the one that absolutely refuses to learn from their mistakes.

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
Leliel Since: Aug, 2009
#41425: Apr 8th 2025 at 7:09:15 AM

Agreed. I wanted to say that a perspective from an Agarthan that shows how they got there to actually show "...no, you're just a monster" would work.

It does not need to agree with the Agarthan, just say "this is how this person got here."

(I'm also reluctant to say anything about a character in Three Hopes, because that literally wasn't in the original game.)

Edited by Leliel on Apr 8th 2025 at 7:10:12 AM


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