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Fire Emblem Three Houses (Spoiler Thread)

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RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#41226: Feb 8th 2025 at 11:56:55 PM

Context REALLY matters in translation. It’s amazing how much that one line changes.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#41227: Feb 8th 2025 at 11:59:00 PM

I looked up the conversation again, and I still think it's possible Dominic's line is meant more like "Daughters of knights often get married off to ambitious families. I'm pushing you to be better so you don't end up like that and can have more options in life."

Again, sounds like parents telling their kids that you need a college degree to get a good job, otherwise you'll just be working a shitty minimum-wage job for the rest of your life. Not quite blackmail, but certainly using fear tactics to get the kid to try harder.

If what I wrote is the intended read of the line, then Baron Dominic's characterization wouldn't feel quite as off.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Feb 9th 2025 at 12:27:56 PM

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
VampireBuddha Calendar enthusiast from Ireland (Wise, aged troper) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Calendar enthusiast
#41228: Feb 9th 2025 at 12:52:33 AM

[up]So if she does do well, what are her options? Does academic success ameliorate the pressure to find a good husband?

Ukrainian Red Cross
dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#41229: Feb 9th 2025 at 1:00:26 AM

Considering the line before that is:

料理も勉強も、掃除も洗濯も、一人で何でも 完璧にやりなさいって、いつも言ってた。

Which is roughly translated to:

He always told me to do everything perfectly by myself, whether it be cooking, studying, cleaning, or laundry.

I suppose the intended meaning is that Dominic wants her to be independent, to be able to show people that she can forge her own path rather than have it be decided for her (e.g. be married off to a noble like other daughters of knights often are).

I guess her options in this case would be "whatever she wants, because she's capable of doing it perfectly."

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Feb 9th 2025 at 1:08:49 AM

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#41230: Feb 9th 2025 at 1:05:47 AM

And as a woman, she’d sadly have to in order to keep independence from men who would exploit her. Mercedes and her mom ended up in Faerghus cause she never really had those opportunities with her fathers death and the only way her mom could support them was to marry her creep of a stepdad, and they eventually had to flee that.

And selling herself to a noble to be adopted was the only way the Church she lived at could keep supporting her mom and the other children.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Feb 9th 2025 at 1:06:54 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
VampireBuddha Calendar enthusiast from Ireland (Wise, aged troper) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Calendar enthusiast
#41231: Feb 9th 2025 at 4:32:50 AM

So how would she be independent?

Faerghusan inheritance law seems to be Crest-preferred primogeniture. That is, the eldest child with a Crest inherits all the land and titles, or if there is no child with a Crest, then the eldest remaining child inherits. (It's possible that Major Crestbearers have priority over Minor Crestbearers, but I don't believe either game says anything one way or the other on that issue). However, direct descendents get priority over nieces and nephews, regardless of Crests.

So, because Gustave is the younger brother, he isn't Baron Dominic. Simon Dominic doesn't have a Crest, but because his father is Baron Dominic, he is heir to the barony; Annette would only inherit if Simon died without an heir (and also if Simon doesn't have any siblings). As such, assuming the emperor of Adrestia doesn't start a war of conquest, Annette isn't going to be able to live independently off the income from Dominic Barony, regardless of her academic performance. Simon would have to support her, give her some land to administer, or bring her into his household (which is pretty reasonable; that seems to have been the arrangement Gustave had with his brother before the Tragedy of Duscur). A couple of her endings have her open a school, but that kind of mass education is a new idea which Ferdinand and Yuri come up with. How did Baron Dominic imagine Annette would live independently?


    History 

I also feel like the writers don't really understand how arranged marriages work. Basically, the higher you are in society, the more is riding on who you marry, and so the less freedom you have to choose. As such, royal marriages are very carefully arranged, years in advance.

However, even in such a society, parents still love their children and want them to be happy. Lower-ranking nobles, arranging marriages with nobles of similar status, generally wouldn't force their children to marry someone they were incompatible with. Even from a purely rational and mercenary perspective, a stormy, unhappy marriage doesn't result in strong ties or alliances, and the parents can reasonably find better matches of the same social class.

When you get down to peasants and craftsmen, the closest one gets to an arranged marriage is a parental marriage veto, because there is little difference between your daughter marrying Farmer Wiggins or Farmer Jones.

Marriages in the merchant and capitalist classes, meanwhile, evolve with time. In the ancient and medieval eras, people were suspicious and disdainful of merchants despite their wealth and influence, because they didn't see how merchants made their money. Farmers and miners dig stuff out of the ground, craftsmen make things, and nobles collect taxes and take stuff from their defeated enemies, but merchants buy things, then sell those same things, yet have more money after the selling. Obviously we moderns know that merchants provide a service by transporting goods from where there is a surplus to where there is a deficit, but that's not something that medieval people grasped.

But, as merchants accrued wealth and evolved into capitalists, they began to imitate the habits and fashions of the nobility, because influencers are as old as civilisation. Late in the Early Modern Era, as the wealth of capitalists began to eclipse that of most nobility, nobles were (at times grudgingly) arranging for their children to marry the children of capitalists; this brought wealth to the old nobility while bringing prestige to the capitalist families.

As this was happening, merchants and capitalists would arrange marriages with other merchant and capitalist families while disdaining marriages to other commoners, because they saw themselves as better than lowly farmers and craftsmen.

Wait, I was supposed to be going somewhere with this.

Annette is from a cadet branch of minor house which has only recently gained some prestige due to trade with Albinea. One wouldn't expect massive social pressure for her to marry, nor would one expect her to be especially desirable, since she and her children are distant from the line of succession and have little chance of inheriting Barony Dominic.

Ukrainian Red Cross
ShirowShirow Dinosaur Hunter from Land of Maple Syrup (Old as dirt)
Dinosaur Hunter
#41232: Feb 9th 2025 at 1:52:25 PM

I can't believe fuckboy Sylvain got in over the male retainers.

Hubert and Dedue lying dead in a ditch.

You are not alone.
KuroiTsubasaTenshi Streamer from Twitch Since: May, 2011
Streamer
#41233: Feb 9th 2025 at 2:17:14 PM

Hubert and Dedue should have tried harder to win the horny contest. tongue

FE: New Mystery Only Feet 7PM PT Sun, Mon, Fri; Umamusume Haru Arima 7PM PT Wed, Thurs: http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi
Druplesnubb Editor of Posts Since: Dec, 2013
Editor of Posts
#41234: Feb 9th 2025 at 2:50:17 PM

[up][up]Annette has a Crest though, that would massively increase her desirability. And if her family is low in wealth, leveraging her crest to marry upwards could give a big economic and status boost to them, which would explain why excelling in her studies would reduce the need for her to marry.

Blackress Since: Dec, 2019
#41235: Feb 9th 2025 at 3:01:33 PM

A part of me wonders if that whole scrapped situation where Annette could've defected Blue Lions would've been caused by Baron Dominic persuading her to not leave the Faerghus Dukedom by going like "Annette. If you leave, I won't be able to guarantee the safety of your mother" or something along those lines.

Edited by Blackress on Feb 9th 2025 at 3:02:12 AM

ShirowShirow Dinosaur Hunter from Land of Maple Syrup (Old as dirt)
Dinosaur Hunter
#41236: Feb 9th 2025 at 3:46:54 PM

Man i would have loved if the Blue Lions defection plotline had stayed. I would have made fun of Dimitri even more for it. [lol]

Hubert and Dedue should have tried harder to win the horny contest.

Hubert just needs to admit he's a vampire already.

Edited by ShirowShirow on Feb 9th 2025 at 3:58:43 AM

You are not alone.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#41237: Feb 13th 2025 at 5:26:30 AM

So lore discussion, but is Hubert's family the ONLY one with a legacy of service and role of the Emperor's personal assistant and minister of affairs? In Fates, all the royals had some kind of retainer whether through a legacy of service or because the royal in question just hired them based on their actions.

But it seems only Edelgard's family has that kind of thing going on. I vaguely recall that Ignatz is working for Lorenz's family post-time skip, but his family is a merchant one, not one of those servant families that pops up in these kinds of stories.

And as an aside, Hoshido tends to have servant families to get retainers from for their royals, so is this an Asian trope or is there actual historical evidence this happened elsewhere besides Asia?

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Blackress Since: Dec, 2019
#41238: Feb 13th 2025 at 6:20:38 AM

IIRC House Fraldarius has something of a similar legacy with House Blaiddyd in terms of loyalty, but that's kind of recent development overall.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#41239: Feb 13th 2025 at 6:24:13 AM

Yeah, and I don't think Felix or his brother were raised to be Dimitri's assistant the same way Hubert is.

And Dedue's service takes more prominence in terms of role.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#41240: Feb 13th 2025 at 8:06:11 AM

I've mentioned before that I had an idea for a Three Houses x Monster Hunter fanfic where having a Crest worked kind of like being the Dominant of an Eikon in Final Fantasy XVI.

Well, with recent trailers and beta gameplay from Monster Hunter Wilds, I now have the perfect monster for Byleth to embody and transform into: Arkveld, mascot of that game.

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/arkveld.png

And yes, this is mostly because of the whip swords it has on its wings. Perfect for choking out Edelgard, Dimitri, and Claude when one of the three do something stupid. And its apparent ability to absorb energy from other monsters with its chains is also a fitting power for the protagonist, similar to what Clive can do.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Feb 13th 2025 at 6:53:40 AM

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
Blackress Since: Dec, 2019
#41241: Feb 13th 2025 at 10:10:29 AM

All this talk about a Monster Hunter crossover reminds me how much of a lost opportunity Three Hopes had for introducing new monster types. Like, it even had the chance to add a new mechanical beast/monster for the Agarthans had the devs really wanted to (which is a common idea in fanon), but nope, Titanus is all they ever get.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#41242: Feb 13th 2025 at 10:11:22 AM

I love how we have less mechs to fight in Hopes because the Agarthans have less of a budget here.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
VampireBuddha Calendar enthusiast from Ireland (Wise, aged troper) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Calendar enthusiast
#41243: Feb 13th 2025 at 11:16:40 AM

House Vestra are weird. They are somehow a noble house despite not holding any land or having a Crest.

But Adrestians isn't like Faerghus or Leicester. They're the only country with ministers, and the ministerial positions while nominally the choice of the Emperor are de facto hereditary.

Ukrainian Red Cross
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#41244: Feb 13th 2025 at 12:01:29 PM

You could say the Empire is their land.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#41245: Feb 13th 2025 at 12:02:24 PM

[up][up] BTW, Buddha, do you know anything about the history of retainer families? Is there actual RL basis for House Vestra?

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Monsund Since: Jan, 2001
#41246: Feb 13th 2025 at 1:36:05 PM

Maybe I should put this in the main thread, but anyone else think Great Knight is a pointless class in this game? Its just Wyvern Lord with lower move and speed in exchange for more requirements in that you need Axe, Riding and Armored rank to use it.

Its weird as the main armored characters like Raphael and Dedue have bad riding skills. The only time you'd ever want it is if you recruit Gilbert in Azure Moon and few people ever use him.

Arson, Murder, and Jaywalking, but it doesn't help either that despite being intended as a Armored Master Class, it looks and animates more like Paladin due to Great Knight literally originating of Paladin rather than General.

It feels like Great Knights inclusion in the game is The Artifact at this point.

Armored rank in general is pointless too, as there is zero advantage to being an armor and a massive disadvantage in decreased movement, but Great Knight is the best example of it.

Edited by Monsund on Feb 13th 2025 at 1:38:31 AM

KuroiTsubasaTenshi Streamer from Twitch Since: May, 2011
Streamer
#41247: Feb 13th 2025 at 1:57:54 PM

A lot of Master Classes are in that boat where they're just not really worth it. Great Knight is just no exception. It can be sorta forced with Sylvain or Ferd, but it's true that there's really little point.

Armor rank itself, though, is actually not pointless at all. In high-level Maddening play, it's actually a viable play to dip Armor to cert Knight for the base Def increase. Weight -3 (Armor C) is also some level of desirable for most characters. Fortress Knight is also notable in that you can kind of just disrespect most physical enemies with the level of Prot stacking you can achieve with it. For instance, Fort Knight minimum Def is 27. Add Aegis Shield and Duscar Heavy battalion for 43 Prot (for non-AM routes, you can still grab a 6-Prot bat for 39 Prot). That just laughs at so much stuff for so much of the game. Start adding actual Def growth from your unit, plus any Giant Shells and gardening Ambrosia, and you have someone who is borderline invincible against physical opponents.

EDIT: For one of the funnier, more extreme examples, here's a video of the average performance of my Fort Knight Mercedes in my Banes Only run:

This is a unit with very low Def growth, and massively sandbagged in proficiency gain, because she could only be trained in her Bane proficiencies. Most of her Def increases had to come from Giant Shells and Ambrosias. Despite all this, she still just walls everything. Now imagine someone with actual Def growth, like Dedue or Balthus. As a treat, though, Fort Knight Mercie's natural Res let her do some really stupid things. Come Endgame, she had 67 Prot and 50+ Rsl—enough to take 0 from the Warmasters and single-digit damage from the Gremories.

Edited by KuroiTsubasaTenshi on Feb 13th 2025 at 4:16:24 AM

FE: New Mystery Only Feet 7PM PT Sun, Mon, Fri; Umamusume Haru Arima 7PM PT Wed, Thurs: http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi
Monsund Since: Jan, 2001
#41248: Feb 13th 2025 at 2:15:19 PM

Armor rank itself, though, is actually not pointless at all. In high-level Maddening play, it's actually a viable play to dip Armor to cert Knight for the base Def increase. Weight -3 (Armor C) is also some level of desirable for most characters. Fortress Knight is also notable in that you can kind of just disrespect most physical enemies with the level of Prot stacking you can achieve with it. For instance, Fort Knight minimum Def is 27. Add Aegis Shield and Duscar Heavy battalion for 43 Prot (for non-AM routes, you can still grab a 6-Prot bat for 39 Prot). That just laughs at so much stuff for so much of the game. Start adding actual Def growth from your unit, plus any Giant Shells and gardening Ambrosia, and you have someone who is borderline invincible against physical opponents.

You put them in Armor quickly for the raw base stat, than once they level enough, you reclass them out of an armored class and never look back

That's my point, riding rank gives you access to permanent high movement, good stats and the canto skill. Flying rank lets you access to permanent high movement, incredible stats, the ability to cross all terrain and canto, with Wyverns not even having their usual speed and resistant penalties.

Armored Rank gives you nothing but temporary stats but with low speed and permanent "low" move.

And Armored units don't use batallions better than anyone else, you'd think if batalions existed there would be armored exclusive batallions, stat boots when using batallions or increased range on their gambits similar to Archers/Snipers getting longbows, especially as the common name for their promotion is "General", but instead they nothing.

KuroiTsubasaTenshi Streamer from Twitch Since: May, 2011
Streamer
#41249: Feb 13th 2025 at 2:20:20 PM

So what you're saying is that you admit that Armor proficiency has uses, but still want to call it pointless?

FE: New Mystery Only Feet 7PM PT Sun, Mon, Fri; Umamusume Haru Arima 7PM PT Wed, Thurs: http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi
Monsund Since: Jan, 2001
#41250: Feb 13th 2025 at 2:21:28 PM

Is what I'm saying Crippling Overspecialization, being Not Completely Useless doesn't mean a class is balanced or that reclassing works.

At the end of the day, you still want to make all your armored units anything but an armor class. Even your average player isn't going to keep characters as Fortress Knights.

Edited by Monsund on Feb 13th 2025 at 2:22:08 AM


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