Follow TV Tropes

Following

Narm Cleanup

Go To

May 26th 2019 at 2:22:42 PM

Not a huge Sonic fan (haven't been since 3 came out), but a few of those - like the 25th Party one & Knuckles art one - seem to be just complaining.

May 27th 2019 at 3:00:31 PM

Okay, let's go through these:

    Other 
  • Rouge the Bat in every appearance, especially for her... bouncing... In her first appearance, half of us were busy laughing at how unrealistically she moved; the other half found it... interesting. Doesn't sound like it's supposed to be dramatic. Maybe Fetish Retardant. Cut.
    • It gets better: in one of the special missions in Sonic Generations, Rouge accompanies you as a support character against Eggman's robots that would normally smack you down if you approached. How does she help? By firing projectiles of her sex appeal as hearts at the enemies to leave them vulnerable. Better yet, this works, meaning Eggman either programmed his robots to have libidos or the animals trapped inside very much have cognizance in this regard. Doesn't sound dramatic. Cut.
  • The 3DS version of Sonic Generations attempts to convey the plot of the console versions to the best of its ability. Emphasis on "attempts." There had to be a better way to convey destroying Eggman's robots or making a Heroic Sacrifice than having 3D models slide past what appear to be trading cards. Needs more context. If it's funny, that doesn't come across here.
    • The face Classic Sonic makes when he's surprised. He just stands there with a gaping mouth, wide-eyed (keep in mind Sonic's two pupil, one eyeball design) stare. Could go either way. Needs a picture though.
    • The battle the two Sonics are supposed to have with Eggman before the final boss is butchered in this version. The game portrays the battle with still images, cheap visual effects, and text boxes. It gets especially confusing when Tails enters the fight. "Scene just falls flat." Cut.
  • Sonic and the Secret Rings gives us Erazor Djinn's final form: Alf Layla Wa Layla, mainly its voice. It's meant to sound echoey and distorted to show how powerful he's become, but the effect used for it is just awful. He ends up sounding like a demonic chipmunk as opposed to a monstrous abomination. Not sure if this is funny or just falls flat, based on the wording. Needs to be re-worded if it's funny.
  • In Sonic Shuffle, Lumina and Void's constant angsting. Maybe counts? But isn't this already covered by Wangst?
    Void: You don't need me? Then... Why was I... BOOOAAARRRUUUGGGHHHNNURRRRRRRRRGH? Seems fine.
    • The above is made even better when you see that the weird black light he emanates as he begins to go One-Winged Angel is shown coming out of his crotch. I dunno. Sure.
  • The memetically dark line from Zor, "I long for Death's cold embrace." Needs more context for why it's Mood Whiplash.
  • Also from Lost World, there's Zazz's line "I DREAM ABOUT POUNDING HIS SORRY BLUE BUTT!", which many fans found, uh, distracting, to say the least. Seems fine.
  • Emerl's death in Sonic X is an very emotional scene except for the fact in the Japanese version, at one point Cheese's crying sounds like a squeaky toy. Is this funny or does it just detract from the scene? If it's the latter, then it isn't Narm.
  • Seeing Big the Cat show up in anything past his missions in Sonic Adventure. Those who've grown accustomed to his Simpleton Voice and irritatingly slow movement won't help but involuntarily chuckle whenever he shows up even in dramatic moments. "Character exists = Narm" examples bug me, because they're so broad. What do other people think? At the least, it needs a specific example where his presence makes something funny. I mean, maybe he's meant to be comic relief.
  • Sonic and the Black Knight has some spectacular moments of this too. In that game, when the characters die by a bottomless pit/lava, most of them simply yell or grunt. Most of them are not Lancelot/Shadow, who screams this with the most hilarious delivery:
    Lancelot/Shadow: I HAVE FAILED!!
Seems fine.
  • The Sonic 25th Anniversary Party. Those who had to watch the event on stream had to deal with audio issues through out the most part of it (one segment where the host began to talk about the future plans for Sonic was left entirely mute because of the audio issues) and video quality problems. Apart from that, the event was filled with awkward and cringeworthy moments. The event will probably go down in history as one of the most unintentionally hilarious gaming events ever. Awkward isn't Narm. I'd say cut, or at least re-word to cite a specific example that was funny.
  • In a refreshing change of pace, Sonic Mania has almost no Narm. One notable exception, however, is Super Sonic's idle pose, which has him tensing his muscles and vibrating intensely. Sounds like a regular scene that comes off as awkward. I'd say cut.
  • Most of the official western art from the Genesis era, as its off-model-ness makes it So Bad, It's Good. But the worst/best example is probably this... thing that passes off for Knuckles. Is this funny though? Maybe it's fine.
  • Similarly, many stories from Archie Comics' Sonic the Hedgehog are this as a result of the comic's infamous perchance for hilariously bad art and bizarre dialogue. Case in point... There are even blogs dedicated to documenting So Bad, It's Good panels from the comic. As a reminder, something being off-model or So Bad, It's Good isn't enough to be Narm. It has to try to be dramatic, but be funny instead because of how hard it tries. That's my understanding, at least.

Edited by MisterApes-a-lot on May 27th 2019 at 3:01:54 AM

ShinyCottonCandy Actually sour cream from The Galar Region Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Actually sour cream
May 27th 2019 at 7:21:29 PM

I have two cents on two of the examples you listed. In my opinion, the Sonic and the Secret Rings example is just falling flat. I can more strongly state that the Big the Cat example should be cut. It reads to me like just complaining the character exists, but besides that, Sega clearly is at least trying to make him comic relief, with such lines in Team Sonic Racing as “Sorry, wall” and “I’m ultimate... whatever!”

I need to think of a better signature.
ArgonianLorekeeper Cursed Reyn from Colony 9 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Cursed Reyn
May 28th 2019 at 5:24:34 AM

[up][up]

  • For the Sonic Lost World example: While the innuendo was probably unintentional, it sounds like it was meant to be comical either way.
  • For the Sonic Mania example: Since this is just an idle pose, it can’t really be said to have any dramatic context to it.
  • For the Sonic 25th Anniversary Party example: As infamous as the event is, it still technically qualifies as a real-life example, which is off-limits for Narm.

"No. Let's just pretend it didn't happen." — Dunban
Pichu-kun ...
...
May 29th 2019 at 7:12:42 PM

From YMMV.Martina Mc Bride

  • Narm: Many of her songs post-Emotion with the theatrical belting and production, not to mention heavy-handed themes of domestic and child abuse ( "Independence Day" and "Concrete Angel"), generic you-go-girl motivation ("This One's for the Girls", "Anyway", "Ride"), domestic bliss ("Blessed", "How I Feel"), and illnesses ("God's Will", "I'm Gonna Love You Through It").

ArgonianLorekeeper Cursed Reyn from Colony 9 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Cursed Reyn
May 30th 2019 at 3:31:31 AM

[up]I don't see the humour in this entry. It sounds more like regular complaining.

"No. Let's just pretend it didn't happen." — Dunban
May 30th 2019 at 8:47:00 AM

From YMMV.My Hero Academia:

  • Narm:
    • Some of the hero names the students chose. Imagine being saved by a hero named "Grape Juice" or "Cellophane".
    • Endeavor is constantly on fire. His beard and mustache are made of fire. No explanation is ever given for why he insists on being constantly on fire, even when it really doesn't demand it- in his house, in public, in a totally isolated hallway...
    • In episode 33 of the anime, Todoroki has a brief flashback to episode 31, when he, Midoriya, and Iida were visited by the police chief, who is an anthropomorphic dog. The problem is that this flashback is not accompanied by any dialogue, so if you didn't see episode 31, it appears to just be a still image of a dog wearing a suit that pops up for no reason. Even knowing the context, this scene can still be funny just for how sudden, silent, and short the flashback is.
    • The scene where Midoriya learns about the circumstances behind Kouta becoming an orphan can lose a bit of its emotional punch given the fact that Midoriya's dressed in nothing but the Modesty Towel he'd been wearing at the hot spring, while Mandalay and Pixiebob are both fully-clothed.
    • All Might screaming a Big "NO!", in English, after failing to rescue Bakugo from Shigaraki's bar.
    • The revelation that Yoarashi harbors a serious grudge with Shouto because he and Endeavor were each rude to him once. That prompted him to move another school halfway across the country to get away from him and drives him to pick a fight in the middle of their Provisional Hero License Exam.
    • Eri trying to smile, and then saying that she doesn't know how to during Mirio and Midoriya's visit in the hospital. It's supposed to be a tragic scene to highlight the lasting effects of her trauma, but it's so over the top melodramatic that it's hard to take seriously.
    • The Finnish translation ends up feeling like a different story at times, far more lighthearted and often dissonant, as a result of a single translation choice: on account of a dearth of good-sounding equivalents for "villain", they were forced to go with "pahis", which would at best mean "bad guy", and at worst "baddie". Now imagine the serious and collected Kurogiri calmly introduce the villains as "We are the Baddie League. We are here to kill All Might.", and you will see the extent of the problem.

I think that only the third, fourth, and last points are actual Narm.

May 30th 2019 at 11:14:58 AM

Found these on Glass:

  • Narm:
    • We get a brief shot of the Beast galloping on all fours like, well, a beast. Maybe it's because the shot is so short, but he looks faintly ridiculous kicking his 'back' legs out like that, a bit like a frog.
    • One of the punk teens early on threatens David with "We're gonna Salt Bae your ass" and "Superman punch him, Ronald!"
      • Though, this could swing right back into Narm Charm when David and Joseph spend the entire scene afterward making fun of this.
    • David getting drowned in a puddle, of all places. Yes, water is his weakness - but a puddle?
    • The significance that characters place on comic books can get rather Narmy, especially when someone cites "Did you know that in the first Superman, he couldn't even fly? And Metropolis was actually New York!" as convincing evidence that superpowers are real. Of particular note is the exchange between Glass and his mother near the end, which doesn't work very well with the tone of Glass dying:
      Mr. Glass: It wasn't a limited edition, Mama... it was an origin story all along!
    • Many find the entire premise of the ancient, 10,000 year old Cape Buster conspiracy completely ridiculous, both due to how out of nowhere it comes and that despite being able to suppress the existence of superhumans worldwide to such a degree everyone believes they're fictional they somehow managed to let David Dunn run around fighting crime for 19 years without him even knowing they existed.

Jun 7th 2019 at 2:12:39 PM

I recently slogged through Narm.Star Wars and, to put it simply, it's a mess. There are legitimate examples of Narm here and there, but most of them are complaints against something the "fans" didn't like.

I would like to clean it up, but I'm not sure how to go about it. Should I make a sandbox and link it to this thread for approval, or should I go ahead and bring out the ax?

- Fly, robin, fly! - ...I'm trying!
XFllo Witch from Where foxes bid people good night... Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Witch
Jun 7th 2019 at 4:06:38 PM

[up] I support to cut it directly. No need for sandbox in my opinion.

Star Wars is an extremely popular work. I suspect it will be as messy as Game of Thrones, if not more, because it's out there for much longer and I understand some parts were not received well by fans.

Delete every complaining or misuse. Sometimes it's hard to tell misuse/one person opinion apart from actual examples of Narm. I've often noticed that people list things that were supposed to be funny and actual jokes.

If you are unsure, you can post dubious examples here. I'd be happy to provide feedback, though I'm probably one of last ten or so people who have never seen the movies. :-D

Edited by XFllo on Jun 7th 2019 at 1:57:50 PM

🌑🌒🌓🌔🌕🌖🌗🌘🌑
Jun 7th 2019 at 4:21:21 PM

Anything that isn't describing a serious scene that became unintentionally funny is objectively not meant to be on the page and can be cut without having to ask.

Jun 8th 2019 at 12:55:05 PM

[up],[up][up] Okay. I'll start working on it. Thanks for the input!

- Fly, robin, fly! - ...I'm trying!
XFllo Witch from Where foxes bid people good night... Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Witch
Jun 14th 2019 at 3:31:14 AM

Another Narm.Game Of Thrones issue. (SPOILERS for the final season follow)

In my opinion it's just complaining. And yes, I get why people complain about it, but it's not narm.

     Battle of Winterfell 

Original entry that I removed

  • The battle of Winterfell. The overuse of Hollywood Tactics and discredited horror tropes over common sense and actual battle strategy has the majority of viewers groaning at the sheer amount of idiocy displayed instead of being horrified as intended, making it blatantly clear that it's a spectacle for the sake of spectacle. Especially the initial Dothraki cavalry charge, which ends up being more remembered for stupid it was rather than the supposed sense of dread from seeing their lit fires slowly dying off into the darkness and the total silence for the following several seconds, which can no longer be taken seriously due to how forced it was in hindsight.

Then the same troper put it back like this

  • The battle of Winterfell has it's [sic!] moments that make it unintentionally comical:
    • The Hollywood Tactics employed by the armies of the living. The idiocy portrayed makes the whole battle downright comical in a darkly hilarious way.
    • The overall lighting is so dark that the viewers wonder how the characters are seeing anything at all to be terrified, turning the entire battlefield into the equivalent of a low-grade haunted house.
    • The dead overwhelming the armies of the living is a terrifying sight to behold if it wasn't the fact that when cutting to named characters like Jon Snow they simply shamble slow enough to allow him to get away, making the whole scene reek of Plot Armour.
    • Dragon fire was shown to be go through stone with ease, then in one scene Jon takes cover in some rubble from Viserion's breath with the fire washing over his head by a few centimetres. Even if the stone in question was somehow able to hold, the heat alone should still have burnt him anyway. Instead, he is completely unscathed. Plot Armour still going strong!
    • When the Night King finally dies, all his wights immediately drop to the ground. Several plop down from parapets and other high places in an almost cartoony fashion, and Viserion in particular collapses downward so suddenly and heavily that it's like a gravity well appeared underfoot.

  • I think it actually constitutes edit-warring because they didn't use a discussion page or this thread or ATT. Not even an edit reason.
  • Phrases like sheer amount of idiocy or reek of Plot Armour suggest they just want to complain.
  • The unintentionally comical phrase reads like a shoe-horn to make those fit.

I get why people didn't like the final season, but TV Tropes is not a place to rage about it. I'd suggest that troper to write a blog. Or take it to the forum.

What do you say? Should it be deleted as I think? Or should it stay?

ETA:

     this I think is okay 
This last example was on the page before, it was just lumpled together with other moment sfrom the battle, which I think fits:
  • When the Night King finally dies, all his wights immediately drop to the ground. Several plop down from parapets and other high places in an almost cartoony fashion, and Viserion in particular collapses downward so suddenly and heavily that it's like a gravity well appeared underfoot.

It's also written as slightly complain-y but at least it explains the funny part of the audience reaction.

Edited by XFllo on Jun 14th 2019 at 12:36:14 PM

🌑🌒🌓🌔🌕🌖🌗🌘🌑
Jul 5th 2019 at 5:36:24 PM

Re: Star Wars, I had removed a number of examples, but I'm just now noticing that Raging Higher added them back in late May with the edit reason "Mister Apes-a-lot, you removed an enormous amount of text perfectly valid under the current Narm definition. Use the page's discussion if you have to, but don't do this again or you will be reported." So if you need a place to start with, you can find the examples that were removed and added back here. I'm not going to take them all out again, but I can add my thoughts on some of the first few entries in the folder below.

     Star Wars entries 
  • A lot of the Battle Droids' dialogue is pretty laughable, and would only become more egregiously kid-friendly as the trilogy wore on. Played for laughs. Not applicable.

  • Qui Gon's reaction to Shmi revealing that Anakin was born via a virgin birth is a wonderful nugget of unintentional comedy. He appears to glance directly at the camera for a few seconds with a deadpan look that says "yup we're really doing this type of story, audience. Enjoy not getting a refund!" Not a dramatic moment.
  • One random bit during the podrace shows Jabba casually flicking a chicken-like creature off the balcony; said space chicken actually screams as it tumbles over. Sounds played for laughs, to me.
  • Practically everything about Jar Jar Binks qualifies as this. His voice, his accent, his mannerisms, and his overtly kid-friendly presence really busted the tone of the film and for this cemented him as arguably the franchise's most despised character. Pretty sure you can't just say "Practically everything about X". Also complaining.
    • Jar Jar being promoted to General on the spot by Boss Nass for bringing the Gungans and humans together under a common cause despite his reputation and his usual antics left the audience just as dumbfounded as Jar Jar himself was. Just complaining, not funny.
  • The way Qui-Gon casually Force pushes two attacking Battle Droids after having just wasted the rest of the squad escorting the Queen and her entourage to a prison camp. Not only do the droids fail to take the easy shot, but the way Qui-Gon gestures to them comes off more like "Oh, almost forgot" when he and the planet's queen are in the middle of a firefight. Not dramatic. Not funny.
  • Dautlay Dofine's indignant retort of "Impossible! Nothing can get through our shield!" when Anakin has just blasted the main reactor to kingdom come inside the Droid Control Ship's hangar. The fact that you can clearly see that his lips barely move when he says this makes it unintentionally funny, as demonstrated by Jeremy Jahns. This is SEF, not Narm.

nrjxll Relationship Status: Not war
Jul 6th 2019 at 2:14:27 AM

I'm inclined to think that you should probably report Raging Higher, at least in the sense of getting a mod to supervise the conversation - if anything it's mass reversions of widely misused complaining tropes like this one that probably need discussion beforehand. I agree that a lot of those do not seem like examples as written.

Edited by nrjxll on Jul 6th 2019 at 4:15:13 AM

Jul 6th 2019 at 5:24:20 AM

[up][up] Ugh. Maybe we should just throw Narm.Star Wars to the fire and be done with it. Every time I take a look at it intending to clean it up, I find myself overwhelmed by all the whining. And it doesn't help that several examples are gripes against scenes that I too find cringeworthy.

- Fly, robin, fly! - ...I'm trying!
Jul 19th 2019 at 3:27:00 PM

Somebody opened a discussion with me about whether an entry for The Lion King 2019 counts as Narm.

    Lion King Entry 
  • Narm: The rather stilted animation can kill a lot of the dramatic parts. The most noteworthy example is the iconic “long live the king” scene: in the original, Scar leaned into Mufasa's horrified and betrayed face, grinning evilly before wrenching Mufasa paws off the cliff side as the latter falls with an agonising cry into the stampede. In this remake, Scar awkwardly hunches over Mufasa with a completely blank expression and knocks him off with a punch to the face, complete with a cartoony punch sound effect. The cinematography and Scar's delivery changing from malicious to just plain angry doesn't help things at all, and Mufasa's yell as he falls sounds downright bored compared to the original.
    Scar: Long...live...the king!note 

Now, I say it doesn't count as Narm, saying ""Killing the drama" =/= Narm. Scene should be funny, not just lame." In the discussion with this user, they said "Killing the drama kind of does overlap with narm, since it's to the point where some people find it funny. For instance I have heard of people finding Scar's delivery of the line or even the smack he gives Mufasa funny rather than menacing."

I can see arguing in favor of the entry, but I think it would need to be rewritten, so it's clear that the overly-dramatic slap is what makes it funny. I'm pretty sure a thing being lame isn't enough to qualify a scene as Narm.

Thoughts?

Sep 15th 2019 at 9:01:48 PM

Sorry to doublepost here, but another user and I were having a discussion about an entry under X-Men Film Series:

  • When Wolverine lists off the names of Xavier's most influential important X-men (that being Cyclops, Jean Grey and Storm), he gives Scott and Jean's full names but only calls Ororo by her code name. It almost seems like Logan plain forgot what Storm's name was or couldn't remember how to say it.

Now, I said I didn't think it counted as Narm, my reasoning being that I think it's more that the moment isn't really trying to be that dramatic, it's just a regular moment being played straight. Narm—to my understanding—has to be a moment that tries really hard to be dramatic and impactful but severely misses. This moment comes across to me more as "Oh yeah, I guess you can snark at it if you apply Fridge Logic". I mean, presentation-wise I think it even makes sense. General audiences wouldn't know who "Ororo" is; her name hasn't been said nearly as much as "Storm" has, but that's neither here nor there. The entry comes across to me more as a really thin nitpick than a legitimate thing that somebody would find funny.

The other user reasoned that "The scene in question was played as dramatic and not intended to be comedic. And yet abusurdity was present since Logan was using the code name of a person that Charles had never even met and that she wasn't going by, plus it was a person that Logan should have known the name for since they were friends, adding to the absurdity of the scene and confusion as to why on earth he would be using the name "Storm" in-universe in this dialogue."

We'd both like another person's opinion of whether it counts as Narm under the given definition of Narm or not :).

nrjxll Relationship Status: Not war
Sep 16th 2019 at 1:03:47 AM

This moment comes across to me more as "Oh yeah, I guess you can snark at it if you apply Fridge Logic".

...you know, I've been trying to look for a pithy way to sum up a lot of the dumber Narm misuse I see for a long time now, and that's it. That's it right there. It's an overlap with the (mis)use of the Fridge pages as being primarily for complaining. That is not what Narm is supposed to be.

Silverblade2 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Sep 17th 2019 at 6:21:38 AM

From YMMV.It Chapter Two

  • Richie saying "You've got to be fucking kidding me" at the sight of Stan's head growing spider legs is such a forced Shout-Out to one of the many famous scenes from The Thing (1982) that it can take viewers out of the moment.

I've seen the movie and I think it was very much an intentionally humourous moment.

Sep 17th 2019 at 6:48:03 AM

[up] Seconded. Might be a better fit under Bathos or Mood Whiplash, which are about intentionally juxtaposing two very different moods.

Sep 17th 2019 at 3:21:05 PM

[up][up] Thirded. That section looks like it could use a clean-up anyways. It's overly long, which usually entails misuse, and it's very complainy. Especially this bit:

  • The Losers' final "The Reason You Suck" Speech to Pennywise, perhaps the worst case of important, serious dialogue being drowned out by the rest of the sound mix since the Childlike Empress getting her new name.

Edited by MisterApes-a-lot on Sep 17th 2019 at 3:25:56 AM

Silverblade2 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Sep 22nd 2019 at 6:35:14 AM

  • During Eddie's flashback, he grabs ahold of Leper/Pennywise's neck and begins choking him to death. Then, with no warning, the leper pukes black ooze into Eddie's face while some bars from "Angel of the Morning" play. "Scene where character is in the middle of struggling for his life" (flashback or not) is a rather odd place to try and lighten the mood.

I also think it was an intentional Mood Whiplash.

Silverblade2 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Oct 14th 2019 at 11:26:49 AM

YMMV.Love Death And Robots Sonnies Edge

  • Narm: It's extremely heavy-handed in terms of sexuality, nudity, rape and gender roles, served with badly dated grrrl power sauce. All of it in a short about cage fights of bio-engineered monsters.

I think it's nothing but complains and fails to explain why it's unintentionally funny.

XFllo Witch from Where foxes bid people good night... Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Witch
Oct 15th 2019 at 3:24:51 PM

[up] [tup] Burn it.

🌑🌒🌓🌔🌕🌖🌗🌘🌑
Add Post

Total posts: 75
Top

How well does it match the trope?

Example of:

/

Media sources:

/

Report