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Narm Cleanup

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I've decided to start a cleanup thread for Narm, since it seems to attract a lot of misuse and complaining. Like I said in my ATT post, "some misuse is easy to catch (e.g. saying a joke is Narm when Narm by definition can't be a joke), a lot of examples fall into grey areas that seem like misuse but it's hard to tell. Like nitpicks that at first glance seem to be valid examples, but feel like stretches the more you think about them."

I think one of the main reasons for misuse is that most people aren't clear on what Narm actually is. To my understanding, it's when a scene is intended to be dramatic, but comes off as cheesy/funny unintentionally. But going by the page description, it's kind of vague what actually qualifies something as Narm. At the top, it says "Narm is a moment that is supposed to be serious, but due to either over-sappiness, poor execution, excessive Melodrama, or the sheer absurdity of the situation, the drama is lost to the point of surpassing "cheesy" and becoming unintentionally funny." But then later on in the same page, it gives a much more vague definition:

In CGI movies or video games unrealistic movements or facial expressions may result in Narm. Dated special effects during dramatic scenes can cause Narm for younger audience members who were raised on nothing less convincing than the Phantom Menace. Totally Radical dialog in cartoons or commercials pandering to children can also be a rich source of Narm. Even a good performance in a bad movie can evoke Narm if the actor's performance isn't enough to save the scene.
That last sentence I feel just confuses the whole thing. It makes it sound like absolutely anything can count as Narm, no matter if it works in context or not.

Most often, Narm is misused to mean "anything I personally don't think worked," whether or not it was intended as dramatic or comes off as funny. And when a work is high-profile enough, hoo boy, pretty much every scene is Narm to somebody. You can look at the Narm subpages for Doctor Who, Star Wars, and Game of Thrones and find tons of examples of people nitpicking the tiniest of details in a scene and blowing whatever it is out of proportion.

Another problem is that since it's such a subjective trope, it's not clear if there's supposed to be any sort of in-fandom consensus on the example in-question, or if every example is valid under the "it's called YMMV for a reason" excuse, even if the only person who thinks the example is Narm is the troper who adds it in.

I think it needs to be clearer whether nitpicks are valid examples of Narm, especially since nitpicking overlaps so often with barely-disguised complaining. The most frequent offenders for Narm entries I see are complaining, nitpicking, adding jokes, and ZeroContextExamples. I'm going to use Venom (2018) as an example, with my comments in bold:

  • The scene of Eddie freaking out on the medical table is presented as the teaser's Money-Making Shot. It... doesn't quite work as intended, which isn't helped by it being sped up, making it look like a parody.
    • The final trailer features a more complete version of the clip showing Venom's face "shutter" over Eddie. Whether or not this works or if it looks like a cheap special effect depends on who you ask.
    • What makes the freakout even more narmful is that Eddie's screams are different screams playing on top of each other. The actual film lacks this strange effect. This example seems fine to me, but falls into the "The trailer is Narmy but the finished product isn't" doublespeak.
  • The leaked trailer revealed some pretty terrible lines (“The guy you work for is an evil person.”). Tom Hardy's horrible New York...ish(?) accent isn't doing the delivery any favors either. And it really does not help that his voice cracks on the reading of "evil person". Thankfully, that line is not in the film proper. Do we keep examples that are purely in the trailers? Also an example of "thing falls flat" instead of "thing is funny."
    • Hardy's line reading of "You're not real, you are just in my head." sounds like he's suffering from Elmuh Fudd Syndwome. At worst, he sounds like Adam Sandler's signature Manchild babbling. However there's some speculation that, based on the context of the scene and Eddie's stumbling movements, he's actually drunk, or perhaps even overdosed on medication (considering he was seen taking a bunch of pills, thinking he's sick). That and it could be a case of Reality Ensues, as it's unlikely anyone would keep the mental clarity to speak normally as an alien parasite is slowly bonding with their body. Natter. Goes back and forth between snarky complaints and defending the moment. Also nitpicking.
    • Movie trailers cutting quotes out of context to form a new sentence is nothing new, but the editing on the line "you will only hurt bad people" is particularly poor, and it's very easy to hear that the line has been cut together out of separate pieces of dialogue. Not really a dramatic thing, so I don't think it counts as Narm. And it definitely isn't funny, it just falls flat.
    • How Jenny Slate's character pronounces "symbiote" note . Plus, her giving firm, equal stress to all three syllables like she's speaking some foreign language. Luckily, this was cut from the theatrical release. Nitpicking and not funny.
    • The shot of Eddie crashing straight through a half-fallen tree in the forest that he could just as easily have ducked under comes across as more comedic than cool, as if they just needed an additional gratuitous shot of something breaking. Especially if your mind goes to Victor from Wet Hot American Summer and his inexplicable refusal to jump over anything. It really does not help that the evil bad-guy vehicle chasing him looks like a slightly modified golf cart. The context for this one in the movie is that Venom is taking control of his body and forcing him to blindly flee through the woods to escape the Life Foundation. Context makes it not-Narm. Cut?
    • Although it may look better in the context of the full scene, Eddie flying 50 feet into the air on his motorcycle off a slightly steep hill seems to rather severely break the laws of physics. Clearly written before the movie came out. Cut?
  • The Jump Scare (on both sides of the fourth wall) where Venom suddenly shouts Eddie's name as he brushed his teeth would have been much more scary if not for the fact that the latter Screams Like a Little Girl. There's also the fact that he somehow throws himself backwards so hard that he crashes into the bathroom wall. Intended as comedic, so it isn't Narm.
  • Remember how creepy and awesome that shot from the second trailer of the symbiote forming around Eddie's face in order to eat a guy was? In the third trailer, the potential Nightmare Fuel of that moment is significantly undercut by Venom slobbering all over the man's face with its tongue in an amusingly over-the-top manner. One is reminded of the scene with Patrick licking the yellow popsicle, or perhaps "This is the taste of a liar".... This seems pretty in-character for Venom. I'm not sure with this one.
    • The guy who Carlton Drake subjects to Orifice Invasion in the third trailer would have been disturbing, if not for the victim's bland expression. Moment that falls flat; not funny. Cut.
    • The symbiote's Venom-face forming on the end of Eddie's arm to talk to him strongly resembles a deranged hand puppet rather than a vicious alien parasite. There's also the fact that they can communicate telepathically, making that sequence unnecessary. Seems fine.
    • Venom's violent threats to his enemies are this if they're not aggressively tasteless Black Comedy. His threat to mutilate a man until he's "like a turd on the wind" is particularly groan-inducing, especially coming after a genuinely frightening threat. How It Should Have Ended was even driven by this to make a video on just the trailer for the very first time, in which he mangles a bunch of other sayings. Pretty sure they are intended as comedy, so it's not Narm. Cut.
  • The animation of the yellow symbiote just looks like mozzarella cheese come to life. Nitpick. Also... inaccurate? It's more of a mucus yellow.
  • After Venom heals Eddie's broken legs, he flatly states "My legs! They were broken... and now they're not broken..."
  • "HOSPITAL!!!! (extremely long pause) Now!" Zero-Context Example.
  • Eddie and Anne quite casually discussing cannibalism as one of the symbiote's favorite activities. It's something that would probably sincerely shock and disgust the average person and likely require therapy, and yet it's bandied about like it's a pretty normal occurrence. These kinds of entries are tricky to me. They seem valid at first glance, but there's something off about them. I don't think this one counts if the work itself is treating the moment lightly.
  • Any menace from Cletus Kasady is completely undercut by Woody Harrelson's truly ridiculous wig. A common comparison is that it causes him to look like a live-action Sideshow Bob, or a make-up-less Pennywise. Uses complainy word-choice. Otherwise fine.
  • Kasady promising that there will be "carnage" after he gets out is so on-the-nose that it feels like it's straight out of a parody. First off, that's not an example of Anvilicious. Secondly, this verges on a nitpick to me. I'm not sure. It's not really funny, just lame.
  • The final trade of words between Venom and Riot before the final battle is nothing but total Ham-to-Ham Combat - that and the two symbiotes happen to be Perpetual Smilers, which just gives off the feeling that they don't really give that much of a damn about their goals.
    Riot: Venom...Get in the rocket!
    Venom: No! We won't let you destroy this world!
    Riot: Then die!
Nitpicking?
  • Towards the end of the film, it's revealed that Venom used to be something of a loser on his home planet, like Eddie. This is his entire reason for wanting to save the Earth. Moment played as a joke, so it isn't Narm.
  • Despite angrily forcing Eddie to spit out cooked meats because they're no longer living animals, the symbiote develops a taste for tater tots, and it practically demands that Eddie buy some during a conversation in the ending. The director admitted in an interview that the writers just thought it was funny and put it in the script. It unfortunately invites comparisons to a similar tots-focused scene in Napoleon Dynamite as a result. Entry admits it's a joke. So it isn't Narm.
  • Drake having bonded with Riot is treated as a huge shocking twist going into the final battle... except for the fact that the audience was already well aware of it and saw the whole process. It feels very much like a consequence of Executive Meddling to give Riot more screentime. Another tricky example. Seems to fall under "scene doesn't work" instead of "scene is funny."
  • Right after Eddie is separated from the symbiote, a rather obvious ADR overdub replaces the intended "fuck you" with the much less vicious "we're done". Not really funny, just falls flat.
  • Eddie's "DRAKE! STOP!" sounds less like he's in pain and more like a little kid telling his Big Brother Bully to stop giving him a wedgie. Nitpicking. Most people wouldn't even pay this sequence any mind.

Another issue with Narm is the distinction between moments that are unintentionally funny on their own, and moments that are only unintentionally funny after Memetic Mutation or similar feat. Does the latter truly count as Narm? Because you can make the case that everything that has ever been made can fall under that.

Edited by MisterApes-a-lot on Mar 31st 2019 at 7:06:31 AM

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#451: Nov 22nd 2020 at 3:53:58 PM

I think the general stance is that it’s not narm if it relies on knowledge of another work.

This.

Edited by nrjxll on Nov 22nd 2020 at 5:54:28 AM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#452: Nov 22nd 2020 at 3:58:58 PM

Yeah, if the audience would have to know some other work to find it funny, it's probably not funny.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
fragglelover Since: Jun, 2012
#453: Nov 24th 2020 at 7:56:56 AM

This was recently added to The Great Mouse Detective:

MisterApes-a-lot Since: Mar, 2018
#455: Nov 24th 2020 at 12:35:13 PM

Seems Fridge Snarky to me. I'd say cut.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#456: Nov 24th 2020 at 2:33:54 PM

[up] Agreed. The image might be amusing, but that's Fridge Logic at best.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#457: Nov 24th 2020 at 2:52:10 PM

Should we have Fridge Humor for things like this?

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
ccorb from A very hot place Since: May, 2020 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
#458: Nov 24th 2020 at 2:53:46 PM

[up] If we did, we would have to move the current pic on Fridge Brilliance to Fridge Humor.

Even then, I'm not 100 percent sure.

Edited by ccorb on Nov 24th 2020 at 5:56:20 AM

Rock'n'roll never dies!
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#459: Nov 27th 2020 at 9:14:25 PM

So Narm.Music is...huge. And looking at just a few of the examples, it seems a lot of these are low on context, and others may not have been intended as serious lines to begin with.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
rjd1922 Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular, from the United States Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular,
#460: Nov 30th 2020 at 3:54:45 PM

Some of the Narm examples on YMMV.Godzilla 1998 seem questionable. Particularly, I'm pretty sure this one isn't Narm:

Edited by rjd1922 on Nov 30th 2020 at 5:57:41 AM

Keet cleanup
MisterApes-a-lot Since: Mar, 2018
fragglelover Since: Jun, 2012
#462: Dec 2nd 2020 at 4:08:52 PM

This is on Advertising:

  • TeenNick advertised their block "The Splat" The Splat (now known as NickRewind) with a Facebook post that read "Saturdays are all about Splat and chill". Funny thing is, "Netflix and chill" (the original meme) is meant to be an Unusual Euphemism for inviting someone to your place to hook up.

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#463: Dec 2nd 2020 at 4:12:39 PM

That's the one Were Still Relevant Dammit-style entry from an otherwise general section that I didn't cut because unlike the other examples, it seems that it was trying to be cool, not funny.

Edited by mightymewtron on Dec 2nd 2020 at 7:13:03 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
MisterApes-a-lot Since: Mar, 2018
#464: Dec 2nd 2020 at 6:27:00 PM

It's not Narm, because it isn't played for drama, it's just awkward.

Anddrix Since: Oct, 2014
#465: Dec 3rd 2020 at 7:32:38 AM

Bringing up the following examples from Alien:

  • Narm:
    • Depending on your sensibilities, the overly genital-based based designs of the aliens can serve to make them look scary, or just plain silly and hard to take seriously as antagonists.
  • Narm Charm: There were plans, believe it or not, to make an animated kid's cartoon about Aliens vs Predator. While it never went through, parts of it did make it into a comic book series made for the Kenner action figures, which had Ripley and most of the marines from the second film surviving Acheron, and subsequently going on GI-Joe style missions to battle Aliens throughout the galaxy, wearing brightly colored uniforms, sprouting endless one-liners note  and wielding goofy, cartoonish weapons (Ripley wields up a flamethrower that's bigger than she is). One predator even appears to be wearing nipple cannons. When compared to the dark and gritty terror of the film, the whole series is hilarious (read it here).

  • Narm:
    • When Parker and Lambert desperately try to wrestle Ash off of Ripley, there is this awkward moment where Ash grabs Parker's chest. It has the effect of Ash giving Parker a killer purple-nurple, though it does show that Ash is stronger than most humans.
    • When Ripley boards the escape shuttle, and finds the Alien in it. It appears to be napping in an empty nook on the wall, and it's reaching towards her without properly attacking reads like it's stirred, but not fully woken. At one point, it even slowly extends its iconic mouth tongue as if yawning. Until it actually starts attempting to attack Ripley, it's unclear whether it's stuck there.
    • The (thankfully deleted) extended opening, in which Kane stands in the breakfast nook and cheerfully namedrops every single character as they sit at the table. It's just as kitsch and embarrassing as it sounds. Ridley Scott must've thought so too, because he only filmed John Hurt's side of the scene before shelving it.
    • Lambert's slurred "Oh my god!" during the chestburster scene.
    • The baby Alien just zooming away after the chestburster scene. It's so fast and goes at such a straight line that it's comical.
  • Narm Charm:
    • The Alien's phallic head. For as blatantly Freudian as it looks, it's become an accepted part of the creature that most people have considered scary nonetheless.
    • The chestburster reveal manages to be scary in spite of some shaky effects due to the sheer gross out factor. There is a reason why the scene is so memorable.
    • Ash trying to kill Ripley by jamming a magazine down her throat is utterly silly on some level; it's not exactly clear how it will even kill her. But the performances from Holm and Weaver are strong enough to make it the disturbing pseudo-rape scene Scott intended.

randomtroper89 from The Fire Nation Since: Nov, 2010
#466: Dec 3rd 2020 at 9:40:16 PM

  • Narm:
    • Despite the quote now being heavily associated with The Room, Jim's cry of "You're tearing me apart!" actually averts this. James Dean being an astronomically better actor than Tommy Wiseau undoubtedly helps.
    • Though there is a straight example with the poor dubbing of Plato's line "I have to go warn him!"
    • In her first scene, there's a ridiculously over-the-top delivery from Judy of "my mother!" when she hears her mother will be picking her up. In-universe she's annoyed that her father isn't paying her attention, but the delivery of the line makes her mother seem like The Dreaded - which from the little we see of her, she clearly isn't.
    • Judy also gets a line that sounds almost like a parody of 50s slang when she first meets Jim — "I bet you're a yoyo". She thankfully gets better as the movie goes on.

The first one seams like an odd aversion. Not sure about the rest

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#467: Dec 4th 2020 at 7:29:15 AM

YMMV can’t be played with, so the whole “averted” bullet needs to go anyway.

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MisterApes-a-lot Since: Mar, 2018
#468: Dec 4th 2020 at 12:14:01 PM

The second bullet can probably go under Special Effect Failure. The last bullet seems like it isn't played for drama. If it isn't, you can cut it.

Anddrix Since: Oct, 2014
#469: Dec 6th 2020 at 5:14:05 AM

Bringing up the following example from The Fanatic:

  • Narm: The movie is filled with these.
    • Nobody seems to be disturbed by Moose's looks and mannerisms. Instead, people treat him like he's a nervous kid and not a creepy stalker.
    • A lot of the stuff Moose does to Hunter is more laugh-inducing rather than creepy, like when he kisses his forehead or fumbles taking a selfie with him while he's sleeping.
    • After Moose kills Hunter's maid, nobody seems to notice the maid's dead body lying out in the middle of Hunter's backyard for days, not even Hunter himself.
    • The scene where Moose has a falling out with Leah and has a tantrum at her, calling her "mean", blocking her on social media, and kicking her out his apartment is supposed to be seen as a dramatic and intense moment in the film, but really, the scene just comes off as plain silly and laughable.

MisterApes-a-lot Since: Mar, 2018
#470: Dec 6th 2020 at 9:32:48 AM

The first and third bullets just seem like complaints instead of funny things

Anddrix Since: Oct, 2014
#471: Dec 6th 2020 at 11:03:48 AM

[up]And what about the second and fourth bullets?

TantaMonty Since: Aug, 2017
#472: Dec 14th 2020 at 3:49:06 AM

Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom has a lot of entries, but some of them sound a little too vague or seem to criticize certain characters' actions rather than describe unintentionally funny moments. What do you think?

  • Claire's melodramatic "It was all a LIE!" line is delivered without a hint of irony and comes across as unintentionally campy. That and the fact that almost everyone in the audience had already realised that Wheatley is an obvious villain.
  • The “nasty woman” reference took a lot of audiences out of it, even amongst those who are not fans of the man who said it.
  • The dramatic shot of Lockwood's amber cane shattering after the discretion shot for Mills's use of Vorpal Pillow is a bit too over the top to take seriously. Detractors especially like to use it as a good visual metaphor for the decline of the franchise.
  • Some viewers thought the black market Auction of Evil for the dinosaurs was too silly and over the top to take seriously. Another much-criticized aspect was the relatively "low" price the dinosaurs were being sold: around $10 million each (which pleasantly surprises Mills who was expecting sales to be in the $4 million range) and with the Indoraptor being the most expensive at around $28 million. While it's more than the average person can afford, the thought of a dinosaur being worth less than a particularly fancy piece of real estate (not to mention a full order of magnitude less than the movie itself cost to make) is quite ludicrous.
  • The name "Indoraptor", which, while derived from Indominus, just ends up translating to a nonsensical Indian Robber and overall is a rather silly-sounding name. Someone at InGen clearly didn't research on etymology...
  • The infamous Brachiosaurus death scene after Word of God stated that it's the same animal from the original film, as it's a completely unnecessary detail that pushes the scene from depressing to just ridiculous, as it makes this another example of the reboot films' heavy abuse of nostalgia for the first movie that is also a highly Contrived Coincidence. Plus, there's also taking into account that an animated film from three decades earlier pulled off the death of a sauropod with much more nuance and subtlety.
  • Some moviegoers found the entire concept behind the Indoraptor to be excessively goofy. A few moments stand out as unintentionally funny, such as the infamous scene where he smiles directly at the screen, but especially the one where it's demonstrated that a gun's laser sight is required to direct him to his target. Common sense would dictate that simply pulling the trigger would accomplish the intended result without having to rely on what is clearly a ferocious beast, yet the bidders ignore this and start making offers as if the Indoraptor was the best weapon next to an atomic bomb.
  • The screams heard during the death of Mills sound rather fake/artificialnote , thus cheapening the impact of his demise.
  • The overblown choir in the soundtrack has made many an audience chuckle during otherwise serious and dramatic moments.
  • The mercenary in the opening scene who somehow can't figure out his comrades are telling him to get back to their helicopter. Even with him not being able to hear them, their gestures couldn't be more obviously desperately telling him to get his ass over there.
  • Lockwood's attempt to take down Mills is a contender for the most idiotic actions ever shown in the series. Rather than calling the police himself, he confronts Mills, making it clear that he knows all sorts of incredibly incriminating evidence. But the real icing on the cake is how he tells Mills to call the police and then turn himself in. Not only is it essentially playing the situation like a Darker and Edgier version of making your little kid apologize to someone they were mean to, but it's just so plain stupid that the audience will struggle to feel much sympathy for Lockwood getting murdered as he pretty much served himself up on a silver plate to be killed.
  • The reveal that Maisie's a clone is delivered so spontaneously that audiences who aren't questioning the logic of it will then wonder why it's even being brought up.

MisterApes-a-lot Since: Mar, 2018
#473: Dec 14th 2020 at 10:19:43 AM

  • Fine, I guess.
  • Not funny, cut.
  • Cut the second sentence.
  • First sentence is too general. Second part is just Fridge Logic and can be cut.
  • Fridge. Unless there's a specific moment where saying the name becomes funny, I'd say cut.
  • This is so complainy that I can't tell if it's valid. As written, I'd say it's not valid.
  • The smile thing is maybe valid, but the rest is just complaining and Fridge. Cut everything but the smile bit, which needs a rewrite.
  • Sounds like "thing falls flat". Cut.
  • Needs a specific example, but otherwise probably fine.
  • Fridge. Cut.
  • Fridge and complaining. Cut.
  • Complaining. Not written as funny. Cut.

TantaMonty Since: Aug, 2017
#474: Dec 14th 2020 at 10:54:43 AM

^ Made the changes. Thank you very much!

Anddrix Since: Oct, 2014
#475: Dec 15th 2020 at 4:17:20 AM

Bringing up the following examples from Die Another Day:

  • Narm:
    • Every single line out of Jinx's mouth. Between the hurricanes of double entendres, pointless references to her nickname, whining about Bond not saving her quickly enough, and awkward blaxploitation one-liners, the character simply doesn't have well-written dialogue.
    • The completely serious use of laser beams to threaten Bond with, five years after Austin Powers made this impossible to take seriously.
    • The invisible car. Full stop. Even Bond tosses out a You Have GOT to Be Kidding Me! when Q introduces it.
    • Madonna's title song, which is autotuned within an inch of its life and goes to some pretty bizarre places (Sigmund Freud? Really?). At times it seems rather apt that it plays over scenes of Bond being tortured.
    • Mr. Kil. It's like they completely ran out of ideas for Names to Run Away from Really Fast for villains.
    • The entire story of Frost and Moon's collaboration going all the way back to their time in the Sydney Olympics. It is as absurd and convoluted as it is entirely out of place in the context of the story.
    • Zao's diamonds, which many will point out should've been easy to remove from his face. It gets even worse when he goes through DNA replacement therapy to change his identity yet removing the diamonds in his face never occurred to anyone.
    • The outfit Graves spends the climax of the film in, some unholy mix of a Power Glove, Laser Tag armor, and a Virtual Boy headset.
    • More a result of tv edits, but if the film is shown before the watershed, Jinx calling Miranda "Bitch!" after killing her is cut. The insult was already pretty ridiculous on its own, but apparently, while kids can watch Jinx quite clearly stabbing Miranda between the breasts, calling her a bitch is beyond the pale.
  • Narm Charm:
    • The premise of entering North Korea by surfing on ocean waves, when scuba diving would be less risky.
    • The sword fight between Bond and Graves is completely over the top, but also genuinely thrilling; special mention must be given to Brosnan for performing much of the fight scene himself instead of a double.


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