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Narm Cleanup

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I've decided to start a cleanup thread for Narm, since it seems to attract a lot of misuse and complaining. Like I said in my ATT post, "some misuse is easy to catch (e.g. saying a joke is Narm when Narm by definition can't be a joke), a lot of examples fall into grey areas that seem like misuse but it's hard to tell. Like nitpicks that at first glance seem to be valid examples, but feel like stretches the more you think about them."

I think one of the main reasons for misuse is that most people aren't clear on what Narm actually is. To my understanding, it's when a scene is intended to be dramatic, but comes off as cheesy/funny unintentionally. But going by the page description, it's kind of vague what actually qualifies something as Narm. At the top, it says "Narm is a moment that is supposed to be serious, but due to either over-sappiness, poor execution, excessive Melodrama, or the sheer absurdity of the situation, the drama is lost to the point of surpassing "cheesy" and becoming unintentionally funny." But then later on in the same page, it gives a much more vague definition:

In CGI movies or video games unrealistic movements or facial expressions may result in Narm. Dated special effects during dramatic scenes can cause Narm for younger audience members who were raised on nothing less convincing than the Phantom Menace. Totally Radical dialog in cartoons or commercials pandering to children can also be a rich source of Narm. Even a good performance in a bad movie can evoke Narm if the actor's performance isn't enough to save the scene.
That last sentence I feel just confuses the whole thing. It makes it sound like absolutely anything can count as Narm, no matter if it works in context or not.

Most often, Narm is misused to mean "anything I personally don't think worked," whether or not it was intended as dramatic or comes off as funny. And when a work is high-profile enough, hoo boy, pretty much every scene is Narm to somebody. You can look at the Narm subpages for Doctor Who, Star Wars, and Game of Thrones and find tons of examples of people nitpicking the tiniest of details in a scene and blowing whatever it is out of proportion.

Another problem is that since it's such a subjective trope, it's not clear if there's supposed to be any sort of in-fandom consensus on the example in-question, or if every example is valid under the "it's called YMMV for a reason" excuse, even if the only person who thinks the example is Narm is the troper who adds it in.

I think it needs to be clearer whether nitpicks are valid examples of Narm, especially since nitpicking overlaps so often with barely-disguised complaining. The most frequent offenders for Narm entries I see are complaining, nitpicking, adding jokes, and ZeroContextExamples. I'm going to use Venom (2018) as an example, with my comments in bold:

  • The scene of Eddie freaking out on the medical table is presented as the teaser's Money-Making Shot. It... doesn't quite work as intended, which isn't helped by it being sped up, making it look like a parody.
    • The final trailer features a more complete version of the clip showing Venom's face "shutter" over Eddie. Whether or not this works or if it looks like a cheap special effect depends on who you ask.
    • What makes the freakout even more narmful is that Eddie's screams are different screams playing on top of each other. The actual film lacks this strange effect. This example seems fine to me, but falls into the "The trailer is Narmy but the finished product isn't" doublespeak.
  • The leaked trailer revealed some pretty terrible lines (“The guy you work for is an evil person.”). Tom Hardy's horrible New York...ish(?) accent isn't doing the delivery any favors either. And it really does not help that his voice cracks on the reading of "evil person". Thankfully, that line is not in the film proper. Do we keep examples that are purely in the trailers? Also an example of "thing falls flat" instead of "thing is funny."
    • Hardy's line reading of "You're not real, you are just in my head." sounds like he's suffering from Elmuh Fudd Syndwome. At worst, he sounds like Adam Sandler's signature Manchild babbling. However there's some speculation that, based on the context of the scene and Eddie's stumbling movements, he's actually drunk, or perhaps even overdosed on medication (considering he was seen taking a bunch of pills, thinking he's sick). That and it could be a case of Reality Ensues, as it's unlikely anyone would keep the mental clarity to speak normally as an alien parasite is slowly bonding with their body. Natter. Goes back and forth between snarky complaints and defending the moment. Also nitpicking.
    • Movie trailers cutting quotes out of context to form a new sentence is nothing new, but the editing on the line "you will only hurt bad people" is particularly poor, and it's very easy to hear that the line has been cut together out of separate pieces of dialogue. Not really a dramatic thing, so I don't think it counts as Narm. And it definitely isn't funny, it just falls flat.
    • How Jenny Slate's character pronounces "symbiote" note . Plus, her giving firm, equal stress to all three syllables like she's speaking some foreign language. Luckily, this was cut from the theatrical release. Nitpicking and not funny.
    • The shot of Eddie crashing straight through a half-fallen tree in the forest that he could just as easily have ducked under comes across as more comedic than cool, as if they just needed an additional gratuitous shot of something breaking. Especially if your mind goes to Victor from Wet Hot American Summer and his inexplicable refusal to jump over anything. It really does not help that the evil bad-guy vehicle chasing him looks like a slightly modified golf cart. The context for this one in the movie is that Venom is taking control of his body and forcing him to blindly flee through the woods to escape the Life Foundation. Context makes it not-Narm. Cut?
    • Although it may look better in the context of the full scene, Eddie flying 50 feet into the air on his motorcycle off a slightly steep hill seems to rather severely break the laws of physics. Clearly written before the movie came out. Cut?
  • The Jump Scare (on both sides of the fourth wall) where Venom suddenly shouts Eddie's name as he brushed his teeth would have been much more scary if not for the fact that the latter Screams Like a Little Girl. There's also the fact that he somehow throws himself backwards so hard that he crashes into the bathroom wall. Intended as comedic, so it isn't Narm.
  • Remember how creepy and awesome that shot from the second trailer of the symbiote forming around Eddie's face in order to eat a guy was? In the third trailer, the potential Nightmare Fuel of that moment is significantly undercut by Venom slobbering all over the man's face with its tongue in an amusingly over-the-top manner. One is reminded of the scene with Patrick licking the yellow popsicle, or perhaps "This is the taste of a liar".... This seems pretty in-character for Venom. I'm not sure with this one.
    • The guy who Carlton Drake subjects to Orifice Invasion in the third trailer would have been disturbing, if not for the victim's bland expression. Moment that falls flat; not funny. Cut.
    • The symbiote's Venom-face forming on the end of Eddie's arm to talk to him strongly resembles a deranged hand puppet rather than a vicious alien parasite. There's also the fact that they can communicate telepathically, making that sequence unnecessary. Seems fine.
    • Venom's violent threats to his enemies are this if they're not aggressively tasteless Black Comedy. His threat to mutilate a man until he's "like a turd on the wind" is particularly groan-inducing, especially coming after a genuinely frightening threat. How It Should Have Ended was even driven by this to make a video on just the trailer for the very first time, in which he mangles a bunch of other sayings. Pretty sure they are intended as comedy, so it's not Narm. Cut.
  • The animation of the yellow symbiote just looks like mozzarella cheese come to life. Nitpick. Also... inaccurate? It's more of a mucus yellow.
  • After Venom heals Eddie's broken legs, he flatly states "My legs! They were broken... and now they're not broken..."
  • "HOSPITAL!!!! (extremely long pause) Now!" Zero-Context Example.
  • Eddie and Anne quite casually discussing cannibalism as one of the symbiote's favorite activities. It's something that would probably sincerely shock and disgust the average person and likely require therapy, and yet it's bandied about like it's a pretty normal occurrence. These kinds of entries are tricky to me. They seem valid at first glance, but there's something off about them. I don't think this one counts if the work itself is treating the moment lightly.
  • Any menace from Cletus Kasady is completely undercut by Woody Harrelson's truly ridiculous wig. A common comparison is that it causes him to look like a live-action Sideshow Bob, or a make-up-less Pennywise. Uses complainy word-choice. Otherwise fine.
  • Kasady promising that there will be "carnage" after he gets out is so on-the-nose that it feels like it's straight out of a parody. First off, that's not an example of Anvilicious. Secondly, this verges on a nitpick to me. I'm not sure. It's not really funny, just lame.
  • The final trade of words between Venom and Riot before the final battle is nothing but total Ham-to-Ham Combat - that and the two symbiotes happen to be Perpetual Smilers, which just gives off the feeling that they don't really give that much of a damn about their goals.
    Riot: Venom...Get in the rocket!
    Venom: No! We won't let you destroy this world!
    Riot: Then die!
Nitpicking?
  • Towards the end of the film, it's revealed that Venom used to be something of a loser on his home planet, like Eddie. This is his entire reason for wanting to save the Earth. Moment played as a joke, so it isn't Narm.
  • Despite angrily forcing Eddie to spit out cooked meats because they're no longer living animals, the symbiote develops a taste for tater tots, and it practically demands that Eddie buy some during a conversation in the ending. The director admitted in an interview that the writers just thought it was funny and put it in the script. It unfortunately invites comparisons to a similar tots-focused scene in Napoleon Dynamite as a result. Entry admits it's a joke. So it isn't Narm.
  • Drake having bonded with Riot is treated as a huge shocking twist going into the final battle... except for the fact that the audience was already well aware of it and saw the whole process. It feels very much like a consequence of Executive Meddling to give Riot more screentime. Another tricky example. Seems to fall under "scene doesn't work" instead of "scene is funny."
  • Right after Eddie is separated from the symbiote, a rather obvious ADR overdub replaces the intended "fuck you" with the much less vicious "we're done". Not really funny, just falls flat.
  • Eddie's "DRAKE! STOP!" sounds less like he's in pain and more like a little kid telling his Big Brother Bully to stop giving him a wedgie. Nitpicking. Most people wouldn't even pay this sequence any mind.

Another issue with Narm is the distinction between moments that are unintentionally funny on their own, and moments that are only unintentionally funny after Memetic Mutation or similar feat. Does the latter truly count as Narm? Because you can make the case that everything that has ever been made can fall under that.

Edited by MisterApes-a-lot on Mar 31st 2019 at 7:06:31 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
DoktorvonEurotrash Lex et Veritas from Not a place of honour (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3002: Nov 25th 2024 at 5:20:07 AM

Any more input on the The Adventures of Tintin (1991) Narm Charm example here? Otherwise I'll cut it. It basically boils down to "voice actor has a thick Canadian accent," as if that is Narm.

CanuckMcDuck1 PEPSIMAN from Japan Since: Sep, 2023 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
PEPSIMAN
#3003: Nov 25th 2024 at 5:59:34 AM

[up]I don’t think it’s unfortunate because it’s being applied to a Canadian accent, but yeah that entry is just joking about heavy accents when it doesn't even affect the story. It can be cut.

Edited by CanuckMcDuck1 on Nov 25th 2024 at 7:59:53 AM

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LoadsAndLoadsOfFreeTime Raz (Season 2) Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
#3004: Nov 25th 2024 at 9:47:58 AM

As a Canadian myself I find the Tintin example genuinely offensive and think it should be removed ASAP.

I don't want the world, I just want your half.
MrMediaGuy2 Since: Jun, 2015
#3005: Nov 26th 2024 at 10:50:42 AM

This was just added to The LEGO Movie 2: The Second Part.

Pretty sure this moment was meant to be purposefully both silly AND sad.

MurlocAggroB from the second-most ridiculous province of Canada Since: May, 2015
#3006: Nov 26th 2024 at 11:37:32 AM

[up] Agreed. That sounds like an intentional joke. Snip.

regulation pigeon
hegelvonaxel Since: Feb, 2018
#3007: Nov 28th 2024 at 8:47:35 AM

Bringing up examples from season 1 of Game of Thrones

  • The dogs that play the direwolves are not very good actors. It's hard not to laugh when CGI blood flies everywhere as a happy puppy jumps up and gnaws gleefully on a chew toy, and when Ghost is trying to warn Jon that the wights are up and about, the "wolf"'s whining and scratching at the door are so dog-like that it seems like Jon should be asking, "What is it, girl? Did Rickon fall down the well again?"
  • Littlefinger has a character-defining monologue that goes into great detail about his backstory and motivations… which is completely undercut by the Girl on Girl Is Hot going on in front of him, which is distracting enough before being edited to actively compete with the dialogue in both screen-time and volume. It also doesn't help that Ros' faux immodest orgasm (which Littlefinger is ostensibly correcting) doesn't actually get any less "ridiculous", and let's not forget the infamous "Play with her arse" command delivered in exactly the same detached tone as the rest of the monologue.
  • King Robert's reaction to news of Daenerys' pregnancy during his discussion with Ned Stark is "The WHOOOOOAAAAARRRRR is pregnant

king15 Have Faun Since: Mar, 2024
Have Faun
#3008: Nov 28th 2024 at 9:02:43 AM

The first is just dogs being cute, which even in violent contexts, doesn't often seem to cause Narm. The third could be Narm, but I don't remember that scene being unintentionally funny (though, as it's YMMV, it depends what others thought). The middle might count since it's a genuine criticism people had, but I don't know if people found it funny, just off-putting.

To be honest, a lot of the Narm entries for Game of Thrones seem like stretches, the opinion of a small number of people or criticisms that still don't count because they aren't 'funny'.

TheGrayFox ....Phenomenal from A Lovecraftian fishing village Since: Sep, 2011
....Phenomenal
#3009: Nov 28th 2024 at 1:53:42 PM

That first one is definitely just nitpicking. There's only so much you can train a dog in regards to their natural body language and such, so if you're really familiar with canine behavior you'll notice that in lots of scenes where the dog is supposed to be "aggressive" or "vicious", it's actually just excited. Because it's a dog doing what it's trained to do (and being rewarded by its trainers). This is true for pretty much any show or movie with live dogs, not just GoT. "The show creators didn't set actual angry wild wolves on the actors" is not narm.

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AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#3010: Nov 28th 2024 at 2:34:22 PM

I think it might be if it is too obvious but I bet these are just tropers with really big knowledge in animal training whining like they did when Phineas And Ferb wasnt accurate to actual space travel. Most of the mainstream doesnt really know animal behavior. I know that's a bit ridiculous but it did happen. And it also happens with less ridiculous examples than mine.

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mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#3011: Nov 29th 2024 at 4:13:48 AM

IDK, the first one reads as a valid example if it really does come across like that — animals meant to be threatening, but instead come across like Killer Rabbits because they can't hide their natural cutesiness. Just because it's a common issue with animals in film doesn't mean it can't also be funny in some cases. The second does sound funny just because of the stark contrast in my head (reminds me of how South Park parodied the series with shoehorning sex scenes at the start of a variety of dramatic scenes). Third is cut off weirdly so it's hard to tell.

Edited by mightymewtron on Nov 29th 2024 at 7:15:14 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Smoker130 Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#3012: Nov 29th 2024 at 4:26:56 AM

First one depends on how obvious it is that the threatening beasts aren't really threatening. If it is "someone who have highly advanced knowledge of animal behaviors can notice subtles cues that proves they're just happy dogs" it doesn't, if it's obvious like "anyone who have seen a dog jumping around will notice", then it does undercut the seriousness of the scene and makes it funny.

DoktorvonEurotrash Lex et Veritas from Not a place of honour (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3013: Nov 29th 2024 at 5:03:45 AM

The second example (the one that coined the term "sexposition") might fit. It was widely parodied at the time, and just awkward to watch, to the point where it felt like a parody of gratuitous Fanservice.

I know nothing about dogs, so I'll stay out of that discussion.

Edited by DoktorvonEurotrash on Nov 29th 2024 at 5:04:04 AM

king15 Have Faun Since: Mar, 2024
Have Faun
#3014: Nov 29th 2024 at 5:09:30 AM

It was widely parodied and criticised, but did people find the sexposition funny, or just awkward and distracting?

AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#3016: Nov 29th 2024 at 4:38:26 PM

mewtron, I didnt say it was a common issue but rather that this isnt something the actual average joe and jane can tell the difference. This is a thing but not how the majority feels which is what is needed to be a legit YMMV item.

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
hegelvonaxel Since: Feb, 2018
#3017: Nov 29th 2024 at 5:41:24 PM

Regarding first example it isn't clear which scene chewing on toy refers to. Also can Narm entries have hypotethical scenarios like Jon asking about Rickon?

MrMediaGuy2 Since: Jun, 2015
#3018: Nov 29th 2024 at 11:13:51 PM

This was just added to Man After Man: An Anthropology of the Future and it feels less like "unintentionally funny" and more just pointing out flawed logic.

  • Narm: The fact that future humanity would rather horrifically mutate their own kind than just building things to do the same purpose can make the whole thing feel needlessly contrived at times. The biggest example may be the "human horses" seen on the cover and in the last third of the book: in what world would these creatures (which, if their thin, spindly limbs are any indication, would probably be even more fragile than a regular horse) have any advantage over a regular vehicle? Do the colonist descendants just have no concept of a car or bicycle?

Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
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#3019: Nov 30th 2024 at 4:37:20 AM

[up] Agreed, as written I don't think that counts.

ReginaldOgron5 Est Ut Squimplex Ut from Two blocks down from the Undead Burg Since: Mar, 2022 Relationship Status: I want you to want me
Est Ut Squimplex Ut
#3020: Nov 30th 2024 at 9:12:20 AM

[up][up] Written like an "erm, actually" nitpick and doesn't explain how it becomes funny. Easy cut.

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MB74 Since: Feb, 2024 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#3021: Nov 30th 2024 at 2:33:45 PM

From Slay the Princess:

The start of the game warns you that it may not be for everyone and informs you of a full Content Warnings available on the Black Tabby Games website. While not intended to be humorous as it gives a concise summary of the game's content, the full warning's amount and variety of listed horrors comes off as a gag in its own right, especially as there are multiple duplicates.
General CWs: mild nudity; realistic depictions of mutilation; disembowelment; realistic depictions of knife wounds; loss of self; cosmic horror; existential horror; being eaten alive; disembowelment; suffocation; realistic depiction of acid burns; realistic gore; jumpscares; derealisation; forced suicide; loss of bodily autonomy; starvation; unreality; body horror; forced self-mutilation; forced suicide; realistic depictions of graphic violence; self-degloving; realistic flaying; self-immolation; realistic depiction of a bloated corpse; drowning; realistic depiction of burning to death; auditory gore; murder; death; loss of control; verbal abuse; gaslighting; dismemberment; graphic self-decapitation; realistic severed head.

Does a list of content warnings count as Narm?

Edited by MB74 on Nov 30th 2024 at 5:35:33 AM

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WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#3022: Nov 30th 2024 at 2:36:25 PM

I mean, I guess I can't see why they'd be disqualified. I can see why someone would find such a massive list of things kind of funny because after a while it might just feel excessive.

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hegelvonaxel Since: Feb, 2018
#3023: Dec 1st 2024 at 12:38:00 AM

So what is consensus about Game of Thrones entries?

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#3024: Dec 1st 2024 at 8:59:25 PM

Saw this on Arcane

  • Narm: The reveal of Ambessa's automaton army in the series finale (a brief glimpse of the troops silhouetted and suspended in the air as the smoke clears, just before they immediately Zerg Rush the heroes' forces) is meant to be dramatic and intimidating, but the way they're arranged in silhouette in that brief shot makes them look like a bunch of Cirque du Soleil dancers about to put on a show than an army of superpowered undead.

Doesn't say what's funny, and just seems like nitpicking to me. Cut?

KingofNightmares Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#3025: Dec 2nd 2024 at 3:42:21 AM

[up] That sounds just like someone trying hard to be a snarky YouTube critic to me.

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