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Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker (spoilers obviously)

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RedHunter543 Nothing is absolute. Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Nothing is absolute.
Sep 18th 2020 at 9:01:31 AM

That's not true, that's impossible!

Demetrios Is on a fabulous jungle cruise, darling from Wheeling, Illinois Relationship Status: Wishing you were here
Is on a fabulous jungle cruise, darling
Sep 18th 2020 at 9:03:03 AM

-growls and grunts-

Domino is the best part of Team Rocket
jouXIII The One with Knowledge of Things from Between the Multiverses Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
The One with Knowledge of Things
Sep 18th 2020 at 9:04:41 AM

Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

...And, well, you're also pretty hairy, sooo....

RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from Australia
Sep 18th 2020 at 4:35:40 PM

By making Palpatine's resurrection an Unexplained Recovery they've opened Pandora's Box. It's like everything wrong in the movies is this guy's fault and even when he dies that's still true

Well OK 90% of everything, as the other 10% is because nobody has invented OSHA in the galaxy

Representing New Zealand, TV Tropes addict
Protagonist506 from 'MURICA Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Sep 18th 2020 at 4:40:20 PM

I recall making a joke once on how Cal’s workplace was very OSHA non-compliant.

I then added “to be fair, Palpatine probably went after OSHA immediately after beating the Jedi”

"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"
FrozenWolf2 The Man, The Myth, The Legend from ?????
The Man, The Myth, The Legend
Sep 18th 2020 at 5:11:01 PM

Palpy: I am OSHA!

____

Reading through Invincible Villain , Palpy's been on there for a bit but I'd almost argue that someone missed the point of Dark Empire 'Or like alot of Tropers is Troping through 2nd/3rd hand info'

Palpy's comeback in Dark Empire pretty much shows he is the opposite since EVERYTHING goes wrong for him.

Palpy really does seem to act like He can just stroll back in and take back over with no effort

He underestimates Leia which costs him Luke's corruption " She can't possibly reach Skywalker!"

He underestimates Luke which costs him battles,strategic secrets and lives 'No worries clone bodies and all and It doesn't matter as long as he can corrupt Luke completely'

He underestimates the Twins together "Nothing can Stop the Force Storm!

He underestimates the Rebels... again " With their leaders killed the Rebellion will surrender!'

He underestimates his own sides value of him " My men are too loyal or cowardly to try and betray me!"

Really despite his I'm back Bitches! Palpy's return in Dark Empire is just one failure after another culminating in him getting dragged to Force Hell

I mean if you take the PT into account watching the Chessmaster's game fall apart cause He thinks nobodies changed is really satisfying

"He's devious and amoral and unreliable and irresponsible and… and definitely not to be trusted."
theLibrarian That all you got? from his own little world
That all you got?
Sep 18th 2020 at 5:55:46 PM

Sorta the same thing happened in the sequels. Palpatine thought that Rey would seize the chance to kill him like Luke did at Endor, and that that meant she was too weak to stop him. And he was wrong.

That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.
Protagonist506 from 'MURICA Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Sep 18th 2020 at 6:48:15 PM

I know in one of the leaks (likely an older version of the script), Palpatine's perspective was that he lost because he was incapable of overcoming familial bonds. He couldn't make either turn against each other because that genetic bond was too strong. Palpatine therefore figures that Rey will do what he wants when push comes to shove because of their biological relations, and even if she does not, she'll be incapable of beating him because she has no other family.

This actually does show up in the final script to a degree when Palpatine says a line along the lines of "Luke was saved by his Father. The only family here for you is me".

I actually do like this interpretation, because I think it shows Palpatine's biggest weakness: Evil Cannot Comprehend Good. Palpatine has no friggin' clue why Vader and Luke teamed up, and he has no understanding of what 'family' is beyond the shallowest definition. He also doesn't seem to understand Rey as being defined in a way that goes beyond ancestry. "Skywalkers are all destined to oppose me in the long run, but you're a Palpatine. My genetics are the only thing that make you special, and therefore, my legacy is your only possible significant destiny" is the logic Palpatine is using.

"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"
Blueace Blue Reflection Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Blue Reflection
Sep 18th 2020 at 7:06:38 PM

As if there was a drop of loyalty on Palpatine blood.

RedHunter543 Nothing is absolute. Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Nothing is absolute.
Sep 18th 2020 at 7:31:27 PM

Palpatine hated his dad, mom, and siblings back in Plagueis.

The POV should be that Sheev is expecting Rey to kill him with hatred.

FrozenWolf2 The Man, The Myth, The Legend from ?????
The Man, The Myth, The Legend
Sep 18th 2020 at 7:39:02 PM

Thats the Problem...

Rey and Palpy's goal are the Same ' Rey kills him'

Palpy only screws up his plan... Cause he HAS to explain it to her 'and the audience'

If basically he had simply acted antagonistic, Rey would have killed him without much thought and boom Palpy's running around in a new body.

"He's devious and amoral and unreliable and irresponsible and… and definitely not to be trusted."
RedHunter543 Nothing is absolute. Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Nothing is absolute.
Sep 18th 2020 at 7:46:45 PM

[up] The entire set up makes no sense and feels rushed and not thought out.

Probably because it was rushed and not thought out.

FrozenWolf2 The Man, The Myth, The Legend from ?????
The Man, The Myth, The Legend
Sep 18th 2020 at 7:56:40 PM

JJ: Doesn't matter Got paid

CT: Please don't let them figure out I peaked in 2013, Please don't let them figure out I peaked in 2013, Please don't let them figure out I peaked in 2013.

"He's devious and amoral and unreliable and irresponsible and… and definitely not to be trusted."
RedHunter543 Nothing is absolute. Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Nothing is absolute.
Sep 18th 2020 at 7:59:11 PM

[up] I heard Disney and JJ got into a spat.

Or it was just a spin doctor rumor to make himself look good.

Either way, I wonder if Disney would be so petty as to try to blue ball his career.

Tuckerscreator from Traveling through the Multiverse Relationship Status: Drift compatible
Sep 18th 2020 at 8:07:38 PM

That was definitely all lies. The idea that Abrams is so transformative a director that Disney sabotaged one of the biggest franchises of all time just to slow him, in a movie that has the fingerprints of his own weaknesses all over it, is absurd to the greatest magnitude. Abrams has been Spielberg and Kennedy's star student ever since he was 15. He's not a rebel, he's part of the family.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Sep 18th 2020 at 8:08:56 AM

“If your good mood was ruined because you got into an accident with a car...”
FrozenWolf2 The Man, The Myth, The Legend from ?????
The Man, The Myth, The Legend
Sep 18th 2020 at 8:18:57 PM

Blue Ball His Career?

JJ will still get work as a Summer blockbuster director...

"He's devious and amoral and unreliable and irresponsible and… and definitely not to be trusted."
RedHunter543 Nothing is absolute. Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Nothing is absolute.
Sep 18th 2020 at 11:09:48 PM

[up][up] Exactly, it's clear that rumor that Disney tried to sabotage him was actually a move from either him or one of his cronies to salvage his rep among internet people and alt-right morons.

The latter are eating it up.

That J.J of all people can make a Superman movie to reinvigorate the DCEU is laughable.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Sep 18th 2020 at 2:10:27 PM

Sep 18th 2020 at 11:14:14 PM

I recall making a joke once on how Cal’s workplace was very OSHA non-compliant.

Is anything in the Empire OSHA compliant? These dudes were putting ledges without railings over bottomless pits all the way back in A New Hope.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 18th 2020 at 11:14:23 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
FrozenWolf2 The Man, The Myth, The Legend from ?????
The Man, The Myth, The Legend
Sep 18th 2020 at 11:21:24 PM

The issue is going into the ST he had been labeled as Micheal Bay -Lite especially in context of ST:Into Darkness a reimagined Wrath of Kahn which pretty much cemented JJ getting kicked out of the ST fandom.

TFA seemingly gave JJ all the respect in the world but due to how much people have now gone back and reevaluated TFA due to Rise trying to understand if JJ just fluked out a good film or People so hungry for Star wars basically ate whatever was on the screen.

Cause there is a argument to be made that TFA falls apart once you don't have the Nostalgia doing the talking... like the Falcon reveal only works if you know before hand THATS the Falcon

"He's devious and amoral and unreliable and irresponsible and… and definitely not to be trusted."
RedHunter543 Nothing is absolute. Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Nothing is absolute.
Sep 18th 2020 at 11:28:35 PM

[up][up] Palpatine probably amused himself with all the workplace related deaths in the Empire.

Gotta have a hobby.

[up] I wonder how many tropers here got into Star Wars because of TFA.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Sep 18th 2020 at 2:29:39 PM

Sep 18th 2020 at 11:43:29 PM

I don't think it's so much nostalgia as it is hope. Part of the suspension of disbelief when experiencing a serial medium is allowing for early faults in storytelling on the expectation that those faults will form the foundation of something more substantial later.

A lot of the love surrounding TFA was centered around expecting that the things Abrams created were going to evolve into something even better, hence the sheer (if not a bit insane) level of theorizing that pretty much characterizes the ST-era fandom, and the insistence that Abrams had to have a plan and it was just everyone else sabotaging that plan when Johnson came along and didn't gratify everyone's high hopes. But then Abrams came back and that bubble burst, because it was made clear there never was an intention to evolve those things in the first place. Now people are looking back on TFA and have to see it on its own merits as there's no longer any idealized next installment that will come along and vindicate it any more.

It's like how Endgame retroactively makes Infinity War a worse movie, because IW movie has a lot of plots that straight up don't get resolved, but which the audience accepted on the assumption that Endgame would resolve them - but which Endgame did not.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 18th 2020 at 11:45:31 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
Sep 18th 2020 at 11:58:26 PM

Abrams had cemented himself beforehand as someone who makes popular movies that are exciting and work in the moment but start to fall apart under almost any scrutiny, like most Marvel movies. He was announced as the director for TFA before Star Trek Into Darkness came out, but even still Into Darkness was superficially well received on release and it took some time for backlash to settle in. TFA was also an enormous hit but I think about the time TLJ came out audiences, or at least forum posters, have become more aware of the tonal issues surrounding those films.

RedHunter543 Nothing is absolute. Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Nothing is absolute.
Sep 19th 2020 at 12:18:13 AM

I've said it before, but JJ is a man who markets, not creates.

Tuckerscreator from Traveling through the Multiverse Relationship Status: Drift compatible
Sep 19th 2020 at 12:42:06 AM

if JJ just fluked out a good film

It wasn't a fluke. TFA fit right in with Abrams's strengths of a good eye for casting, nostalgic vocabulary, striking cinematography, fluid action scenes, and introducing mystery. But those same traits tends to give diminishing returns with following entries in the same series. It's like eating at a restaurant that serves a tasty breakfast, but returning for lunch and dinner you find they're still only serving breakfast.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Sep 21st 2020 at 2:08:07 AM

“If your good mood was ruined because you got into an accident with a car...”
M84 YOU HATE TIME TRAVEL from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
YOU HATE TIME TRAVEL
Sep 19th 2020 at 12:44:52 AM

[up]And it's the same breakfast platter at that.

Disgusted, but not surprised

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