TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Unreleased Work Page Cleanup (Speculation, Spoilers, ZCE etc.)

Go To

This is a thread for checking up on pages for works that have not been released yet, to make sure that they are not straying into rampant speculation or posting crazy behind the scenes spoilers. You can bring both individual examples or entire pages to attention here.

In extreme cases, any page can be locked, but hopefully that won't be necessary.

(As these pages often are hit with zero-context examples and shoehorning as well, all four - speculation, spoilers, ZCEs, and shoehorning may get addressed simultaneously.)

The policy governing this effort is Creating A Work Page For An Unreleased Work. Cleanup is being tracked using the Unreleased Works sandbox.

All pages for unreleased works should include a %% comment at the top of the page, confirming the policy and linking to this thread and the Administrivia page. It doesn't have to be exactly the same as the example provided here, but this provides a template to work with.

     Template for the unreleased work comment 
%%
%% Speculative troping is not allowed on TV Tropes.
%%
%% We trope what DOES happen in works, not what MIGHT happen or is LIKELY to happen.
%%
%% For unreleased works where all we have to go on is advertising and other supplemental materials, we have some detailed guidelines, which can be found at Administrivia/CreatingAWorkPageForAnUnreleasedWork.
%%
%% NOTE - these rules also mean that unreleased works should only have one page image, and that image should NOT be changed again until the work is released.
%%
%% If you have questions, please consult the Unreleased Work Speculation Cleanup thread at https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=15514631230A64268600
%%
%% Thank you.
%%

Edited by Mrph1 on Feb 10th 2024 at 8:16:52 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#1226: Jul 1st 2019 at 7:01:54 AM

The proper order of events is to experience the work, decide what tropes apply, and then write up entry text with full context.

He seems to think that it's "guess what tropes apply, write up entry text based on what you think will happen, and then see whether your guess is right."

TV Tropes is not a guessing game.

Paging ~Discar because this is exactly correct. We are not in the business of guessing what tropes will be in a work. Seriously, if you can't deal with our speculative troping policy, go trope works that are actually out.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
HighCrate Since: Mar, 2015
#1227: Jul 1st 2019 at 7:12:16 AM

[up][up] We went over the Borderlands page once before, after which folks had weeks to add citations and context and otherwise clean it up. I was under the impression that we were largely finished with discussion on it. As it appears I was wrong, I've brought the matter back here, again, so that anybody who cares to do so can add citations and context and otherwise clean it up.

I have included links that show that my actions are in accord with policy and moderator decisions. I started an entire thread about proper use of comment tags to make sure that my understanding of the problem was in line with policy. I'm not sure what else you want from me.

Edited by HighCrate on Jul 1st 2019 at 7:19:30 AM

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#1228: Jul 1st 2019 at 8:02:37 AM

I've been trying to avoid this thread. Despite disagreeing very strongly with many of the commented-out entries, I gave up. Commenting them out is a compromise. Eventually the game/movie/whatever will come out, and people will be able to uncomment the entries that were correct. Or hey, maybe they will have to delete them after all. That's why it's a compromise.

Deleting them all is not a compromise. It's burning the page down and putting the burden of proof on everybody else. People should not be required to watch pages every day to make sure it hasn't been nuked.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#1229: Jul 1st 2019 at 8:07:32 AM

[up] Or, people could wait until a work is released to add tropes. You know, like what our policy tells them to do? You're acting like a kid whose candy was taken away, after being told not to eat it in the first place. You can put forth all the effort you want on an article, but if that effort is wrong, then you're wasting your time.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 1st 2019 at 11:08:31 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AzureOwl Since: May, 2009
#1230: Jul 1st 2019 at 8:09:28 AM

Just giving everyone the heads up that with the release today of the trailer for the new Jumanji sequel, I've created the page for the film: Jumanji: The Next Level.

The page includes the release date for the film (December 13, 2019), a link to the trailer and 6 non speculative trope entries derived from information seen on the trailer, and sourced as such.

Please feel free to review it to see if there is anything that I have missed in complying with the parameters indicated in Creating a Work Page for an Upcoming Work.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#1231: Jul 1st 2019 at 8:21:08 AM

[up][up] The point of the policy was to lay down some reasonable rules for what people could trope pre-release without getting into speculation. Many people add tropes to a page based on what they see as very clearly in the trailers and other official pre-release material. Others disagree, it gets commented out. That's a compromise. Deleting them outright—or, for that matter, uncommenting them wholesale, something I was guilty of in the past—is not a compromise.

We meet in the middle and everyone rolls their eyes but goes about their lives. That's how it goes.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#1232: Jul 1st 2019 at 8:22:12 AM

No, that's not the compromise. A trope example is either valid or it isn't. If they are clearly not valid, then they should be deleted. Commenting them out is not a mandatory component of a cleanup, and adding ZCEs with the stated intention of filling them in later is absolutely prohibited.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 1st 2019 at 11:23:08 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#1233: Jul 1st 2019 at 8:26:45 AM

I thought the policy explicitly had allotments for as-yet unreleased works? Sure, there are extra stipulations, but on a whole the policy’s similar to how it’s been for a long time.

I think that ZCEs are a more rampant issue than speculation for upcoming works, but what do I know?

Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on Jul 1st 2019 at 11:27:24 AM

My musician page
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#1234: Jul 1st 2019 at 8:29:59 AM

One should not add examples that are intentionally wrong. This is simple etiquette, hardly worth mentioning, except that it apparently is.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#1235: Jul 1st 2019 at 8:30:50 AM

[up]The phrasing “intentionally wrong” comes across as assuming bad faith.

My musician page
rjd1922 Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular, from the United States Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular,
#1236: Jul 1st 2019 at 8:31:00 AM

There was only approval to delete speculation and misused tropes; ZCEs and examples lacking citations should stay commented-out.

Keet cleanup
Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#1238: Jul 1st 2019 at 9:03:47 AM

[up][up] Says who? The presence of a policy about this specific issue doesn't invalidate our general policy about how to write examples, which is to do them correctly the first time.

Again, commenting them out instead of removing them is a courtesy and is not required by any of our policies.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 1st 2019 at 12:04:47 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#1239: Jul 1st 2019 at 9:04:41 AM

[up][up][up] [tup][tup][tup]

The proper use of commenting thread hasn't even reached a proper consensus, and the general opinion leans more to keep ZCEs commented out rather than delete them wholesale.

[up][up] Isn't Overshadowed by Controversy one of the tropes that works both pre and post a work releasing? Even then, the Troubled Production of the film might allow it to slide.

Edited by Crossover-Enthusiast on Jul 1st 2019 at 12:05:00 PM

Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#1240: Jul 1st 2019 at 9:06:24 AM

I'd question that, since the work isn't out to be overshadowed in the first place.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#1241: Jul 1st 2019 at 9:10:54 AM

I would suggest that works that suffer issues pre-release be listed under Troubled Production. Overshadowed by Controversy is something that can only fairly be judged in hindsight.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 1st 2019 at 12:18:55 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#1242: Jul 1st 2019 at 9:19:34 AM

We also have a thread dedicated to cleaning up ZCEs, which HighCrate should know considering they posted there recently. Deleting them outright without trying to get help from there goes against the purpose of the thread.

EDIT: I rechecked Astral Chain and apparently HighCrate deleted a bunch of examples that they previously hidden for lacking citation under the assumption that they were speculative. Can we decide what actually constitutes speculation, please? Because that shit was in the trailers. What's even the point?

Edited by Karxrida on Jul 1st 2019 at 9:26:15 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#1243: Jul 1st 2019 at 9:24:54 AM

Is it that big a deal, though? The ZCE thread can deal with works that are released and that someone can presumably watch/play/read to confirm what tropes are present and add context.

For unreleased works, adding zero-context examples in the expectation that someone else will come along and fix them later is mind-bogglingly inappropriate.

That said, if our approach thus far has been to comment the examples, it should be followed.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 1st 2019 at 12:26:21 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#1244: Jul 1st 2019 at 9:25:23 AM

Sounds like the citation, or lack of, made the difference there.

Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#1245: Jul 1st 2019 at 9:27:52 AM

It was deleted specifically for speculation, not lack of citation.

And I'm pretty sure HighCrate doesn't know enough about the game to make a good judgment call.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#1246: Jul 1st 2019 at 9:28:24 AM

How is one to tell the difference unless the example is cited? This is what I mean about doing correct work to begin with, not leaving things for other people to fix.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 1st 2019 at 12:28:42 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#1247: Jul 1st 2019 at 9:30:12 AM

The examples were like that before the citation policy was put into place.

I haven't had the time to edit shit or fix anything because of IRL stuff. And I'm now spending my last day of vacation dealing with this.

Edited by Karxrida on Jul 1st 2019 at 9:32:35 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#1248: Jul 1st 2019 at 9:32:21 AM

Why does it matter enough that you're "spending the last day of your vacation"? Are you that outraged on behalf of people doing bad work? Let's cheerlead incorrect editing rather than helping to fix it: that makes sense.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 1st 2019 at 12:33:09 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AzureOwl Since: May, 2009
#1249: Jul 1st 2019 at 9:32:54 AM

[up][up]Regarding The Current War, I believe the issue is adequately covered by an entry in the film's Trivia page:

  • The Shelf of Movie Languishment: This was one of two films meant to be released in 2017 by the Weinstein Company that ended up here instead, thanks to the Harvey Weinstein controversy and the company's resulting bankruptcy (the other being the horror movie Polaroid). The film was eventually released in 2019.

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#1250: Jul 1st 2019 at 9:33:22 AM

I think a good approach would be to contact the tropers who previously edited the page, and give them a fair chance to find a valid citation first, only cutting if one can’t be provided or a response isn’t given in a timely manner.

My musician page

Total posts: 3,552
Top