Follow TV Tropes

Following

Unreleased Work Page Cleanup (Speculation, Spoilers, Zero-Context, et al.)

Go To

This is a thread for checking up on pages for works that have not been released yet, to make sure that they are not straying into rampant speculation or posting crazy behind the scenes spoilers. You can bring both individual examples or entire pages to attention here.

In extreme cases, any page can be locked, but hopefully that won't be necessary.

(As these pages often are hit with zero-context examples and shoehorning as well, all four - speculation, spoilers, ZCEs, and shoehorning may get addressed simultaneously.)

The policy governing this effort is Creating a Work Page for an Upcoming Work.

Edited by nombretomado on Jun 10th 2019 at 6:08:27 AM

Crossover-Enthusiast F E A R from somewhere doing something Relationship Status: Chocolate!
F E A R
Mar 10th 2019 at 9:52:34 PM

Removed The Movie example from Steven Universe: The Movie and added this in its place:

  • Wicked Heart Symbol: The teaser is framed with Garnet, Amethyst, Pearl, and Steven reflected in a heart-shaped gemstone. The gem flips, each time switching to another member, before flipping to a silhouetted Gem as wicked laughter is heard.

I don't know what this thing is, and that terrifies me!
Mar 11th 2019 at 11:49:11 AM

Amphibia appears to be entirely Speculative Troping:

The show isn't out yet; where is this information coming from?

crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Mar 11th 2019 at 1:37:40 PM

Messaging ~Commander Visor to explain about Amphibia.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
bwburke94 My Ice Cream Waifu from Remnant Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
My Ice Cream Waifu
Mar 11th 2019 at 3:11:54 PM

[up][up] In cases like these, it may make sense to link to the known pre-release information at the top of the page, to avoid having to repeatedly cite the same trailer (or in this case intro).

  • Bioluminescence Is Cool: Cut it for now, as though it appears to apply, we don't quite have enough information yet.
  • Feathered Fiend: Keep it, as it specifically cites publicly released material.
  • Frog Men: Keep it, as both the premise and the intro confirm the trope's presence.
  • Token Human: Cut it for now, as we don't know for sure there aren't other humans present.
  • Trapped in Another World: Keep it, as both the premise and the intro confirm the trope's presence.

Misspelled trope names dealt with... for now. Moving back to the Understatement project soon?
Mar 11th 2019 at 3:56:49 PM

Citing "the premise" is circular reasoning. Do you know what the premise is? Or are you speculating?

For example, full context for Trapped in Another World would explain what world the character(s) came from, what world they're trapped in, how they got from one world to the other, why they can't leave, etc. Do we have all that information right now? Because the way the entry is written, it's barely got more context than "trope happens."

Edited by HighCrate on Mar 11th 2019 at 4:11:23 AM

Crossover-Enthusiast F E A R from somewhere doing something Relationship Status: Chocolate!
F E A R
Mar 11th 2019 at 6:59:47 PM

Isn't Amphibia's entire premise about a girl that gets trapped in a world full of frogs?

I don't know what this thing is, and that terrifies me!
Mar 11th 2019 at 7:10:59 PM

I don't know. Is it? What are you basing that on? A 30-second intro with no dialogue?

Crossover-Enthusiast F E A R from somewhere doing something Relationship Status: Chocolate!
F E A R
Mar 11th 2019 at 7:13:14 PM I don't know what this thing is, and that terrifies me!
Mar 11th 2019 at 9:25:43 PM

Word of God. Gotcha. Can you write up full context for Trapped in Another World, citing Word of God as your source?

bwburke94 My Ice Cream Waifu from Remnant Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
My Ice Cream Waifu
Mar 11th 2019 at 9:29:33 PM

In cases like this, would it make sense to link to the press release in the lede, to ensure future tropers have access to the citation?

Misspelled trope names dealt with... for now. Moving back to the Understatement project soon?
Mar 11th 2019 at 9:34:01 PM

Yes, it's fine to have a link above the line.

The trope still needs more context than "trope happens."

Edited by HighCrate on Mar 11th 2019 at 9:34:53 AM

Crossover-Enthusiast F E A R from somewhere doing something Relationship Status: Chocolate!
F E A R
Mar 11th 2019 at 10:57:54 PM

There was an attempt.

I don't know what this thing is, and that terrifies me!
crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Mar 11th 2019 at 11:22:25 PM

"no way back home" — You're inferring this; the article doesn't actually say she's trapped. It could be like Dragon Tales and the first episode establishes how she can move between her world and Amphibia.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Crossover-Enthusiast F E A R from somewhere doing something Relationship Status: Chocolate!
F E A R
Mar 11th 2019 at 11:25:04 PM

I didn't know if there'd be enough context otherwise.

Edited by Crossover-Enthusiast on Mar 11th 2019 at 2:25:32 PM

I don't know what this thing is, and that terrifies me!
Silverblade2 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Mar 12th 2019 at 1:01:31 AM

I deleted two tropes from Maleficent: Mistress of Evil because it was speculation based on the title alone.

  • Darker and Edgier: Likely downplayed in comparison to the first film, but the subtitle suggests it'll be this.
  • Start of Darkness: The subtitle suggests Maleficent may finally start living up to her villainous ways, which was a common criticism of the first film.

With those two removed, there's only one valid trope.

Mar 12th 2019 at 5:39:51 AM

[up][up] If there's not enough context, then the entry should be deleted or commented-out until there is enough context.

The Frog Men entry is similarly devoid of context beyond "trope happens." Look at the first paragraph of the trope description of Frog Men. Can we honestly, without making assumptions or speculating, say which of these common traits of Frog Men apply to this work?

As the page has fewer than three valid entries with context, motion to cut.

Edited by HighCrate on Mar 12th 2019 at 5:45:33 AM

Silverblade2 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Mar 12th 2019 at 5:41:08 AM

From The Batman 2021

Is it speculation?

Mar 12th 2019 at 5:42:44 AM

[up] It is reportedly speculation, rumored to have been written by someone who isn't sure if the trope actually applies.

I've supposedly said that the entire page is like that, and I may support the notion that it might be cutlisted in the future.

Actually, let's take a closer look at that page:

  • Big-Bad Ensemble: The movie is reportedly going to involve multiple villains from Batman's rogues gallery with The Penguin rumored to be the main Big Bad. Speculation and rumor
  • Film Noir: The Batman is expected to be a more character-driven and stylistically noir movie compared to previous iterations. It will also explore Batman's experiences as the world's greatest detective to a greater extent. Speculation
  • Genre Throwback: According to the director, the works of Alfred Hitchcock will be a major inspiration for the movie. Speculation. Just because one of the creators is influenced by someone who made a lot of noir films doesn't necessarily mean the final product will be a Genre Throwback.
  • Prequel: The film will take place years before Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice and will focus on Bruce Wayne earlier on in his career as a vigilante. Speculation. I have no doubt it's intended to be a prequel, but major changes and retools happen during production all the time.
  • Revisiting the Roots: Matt Reeves stated in an interview that the film will feature "an almost-noir driven, detective version of Batman" that will emphasize the heart and mind of the character. Speculation. Suicide Squad went through massive rewrites and reshoots at the 11th hour to change the tone of the film. How do we know this won't as well?

The film isn't even in active production yet. This page is nothing but spinning vague statements from interviews as if they were ironclad fact. It's the definition of Speculative Troping. Cut it.

Edited by HighCrate on Mar 12th 2019 at 7:17:35 AM

Mar 12th 2019 at 5:59:10 AM

Also, it got a little buried above, but motion to cutlist Maleficent: Mistress of Evil for having fewer than three valid tropes.

crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Mar 12th 2019 at 8:01:46 AM

~Clock 22 and ~Chipmunk Hunk created those respective pages.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Silverblade2 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Mar 12th 2019 at 9:28:51 AM

My question is: If Word of God confirms that a trope is going to be in a work, is it still speculation?

crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Mar 12th 2019 at 9:56:41 AM

Creator statements are still speculation, but you can cite the interview/blog/tweet. This is why trivia-tropes like Word of God aren't supposed to have the warning button inside main wiki examples; you can use them to give context to a trope. If said trope ends up happening entirely off-screen and the only evidence we have for the trope occuring is a creator statement, then it needs to be moved to the trivia subpage as a subbullet to Word of God. If it turns out they were blatantly lying, then it gets moved to the trivia subpage as a subbullet to Lying Creator.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Mar 12th 2019 at 11:16:12 AM

My apologies if my Batman 2021 page is mainly made up of speculation, I thought it should've been made due to the fact it's coming out in about two years and no one made the page yet. If needed, you can cut the page.

I didn't mean to add any wrong information to the website, I hope that no one thinks I meant any of my editing in malice.

Edited by Clock22 on Mar 12th 2019 at 11:17:52 AM

Mar 12th 2019 at 11:27:44 AM

[up][up] I really dislike this "speculate now, clean up later" approach. The whole point of this cleanup thread is to prevent messes like that.

Word of God isn't enough to make an example valid by itself, especially in a work that hasn't even been produced yet. That just leaves us with pages full of, "Well, Word of God said that this will happen." The creator isn't actually God. They can't predict the future. They've announced their intentions, but things change. Rewrites, reshoots, scrapped early drafts. Writers and directors can be replaced. Actors can be recast. We don't know whether the trope will actually happen in the work, whether it'll be a Missing Trailer Scene or What Could Have Been or what.

Now, if a trope is already demonstrably present in material that we do have access to, and citing Word of God can add further context, then fair enough. Write the example and include the Word of God.

Edited by HighCrate on Mar 12th 2019 at 11:32:45 AM

crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Mar 12th 2019 at 12:13:46 PM

I consider Creator interviews and announcements to be part of the marketing for the work. I'd rather we put Unpublished Works all in the same category (instead of two places), but the current wiki policy is to allow examples from marketing and allow pages on the main Wiki. Thus, Creator statements are speculations on the finished product, but valid examples of marketing for the project.

Edited by crazysamaritan on Mar 12th 2019 at 3:14:16 PM

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Total posts: 1,843
Top

How well does it match the trope?

Example of:

/

Media sources:

/

Report