This is a thread for checking up on pages for works that have not been released yet, to make sure that they are not straying into rampant speculation or posting crazy behind the scenes spoilers. You can bring both individual examples or entire pages to attention here.
In extreme cases, any page can be locked, but hopefully that won't be necessary.
(As these pages often are hit with zero-context examples and shoehorning as well, all four - speculation, spoilers, ZCEs, and shoehorning may get addressed simultaneously.)
The policy governing this effort is Creating A Work Page For An Unreleased Work. Cleanup is being tracked using the Unreleased Works sandbox.
All pages for unreleased works should include a %% comment at the top of the page, confirming the policy and linking to this thread and the Administrivia page. It doesn't have to be exactly the same as the example provided here, but this provides a template to work with.
%% Speculative troping is not allowed on TV Tropes.
%%
%% We trope what DOES happen in works, not what MIGHT happen or is LIKELY to happen.
%%
%% For unreleased works where all we have to go on is advertising and other supplemental materials, we have some detailed guidelines, which can be found at Administrivia/CreatingAWorkPageForAnUnreleasedWork.
%%
%% NOTE - these rules also mean that unreleased works should only have one page image, and that image should NOT be changed again until the work is released.
%%
%% If you have questions, please consult the Unreleased Work Speculation Cleanup thread at https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=15514631230A64268600
%%
%% Thank you.
%%
Edited by Mrph1 on Feb 10th 2024 at 8:16:52 PM
Amphibia appears to be entirely Speculative Troping:
- Bioluminescence Is Cool: Amphibia has bioluminescent mushrooms, some of which grow to gigantic sizes.
- Feathered Fiend: One of the antagonistic creatures in the intro is a gigantic chicken-monster chasing Anne and Sprig.
- Frog Men: The citizens of Amphibia are anthropomorphic frogs.
- Token Human: Anne is the only human in a world populated by anthropomorphic frogs.
- Trapped in Another World: An ordinary girl is transported to a World of Funny Animals.
The show isn't out yet; where is this information coming from?
Messaging ~Commander Visor to explain about Amphibia.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.In cases like these, it may make sense to link to the known pre-release information at the top of the page, to avoid having to repeatedly cite the same trailer (or in this case intro).
- Bioluminescence Is Cool: Cut it for now, as though it appears to apply, we don't quite have enough information yet.
- Feathered Fiend: Keep it, as it specifically cites publicly released material.
- Frog Men: Keep it, as both the premise and the intro confirm the trope's presence.
- Token Human: Cut it for now, as we don't know for sure there aren't other humans present.
- Trapped in Another World: Keep it, as both the premise and the intro confirm the trope's presence.
Citing "the premise" is circular reasoning. Do you know what the premise is? Or are you speculating?
For example, full context for Trapped in Another World would explain what world the character(s) came from, what world they're trapped in, how they got from one world to the other, why they can't leave, etc. Do we have all that information right now? Because the way the entry is written, it's barely got more context than "trope happens."
Edited by HighCrate on Mar 11th 2019 at 4:11:23 AM
Isn't Amphibia's entire premise about a girl that gets trapped in a world full of frogs?
Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢I don't know. Is it? What are you basing that on? A 30-second intro with no dialogue?
Word of God. Gotcha. Can you write up full context for Trapped in Another World, citing Word of God as your source?
In cases like this, would it make sense to link to the press release in the lede, to ensure future tropers have access to the citation?
I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.Yes, it's fine to have a link above the line.
The trope still needs more context than "trope happens."
Edited by HighCrate on Mar 11th 2019 at 9:34:53 AM
There was an attempt.
- Trapped in Another World: According to this press release, Anne is magically transported to the world of Amphibia with no way back home.
"no way back home" — You're inferring this; the article doesn't actually say she's trapped. It could be like Dragon Tales and the first episode establishes how she can move between her world and Amphibia.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.I didn't know if there'd be enough context otherwise.
- Trapped in Another World: According to this press release, Anne is magically transported to the world of Amphibia.
Edited by Crossover-Enthusiast on Mar 11th 2019 at 2:25:32 PM
Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢I deleted two tropes from Maleficent: Mistress of Evil because it was speculation based on the title alone.
- Darker and Edgier: Likely downplayed in comparison to the first film, but the subtitle suggests it'll be this.
- Start of Darkness: The subtitle suggests Maleficent may finally start living up to her villainous ways, which was a common criticism of the first film.
With those two removed, there's only one valid trope.
If there's not enough context, then the entry should be deleted or commented-out until there is enough context.
The Frog Men entry is similarly devoid of context beyond "trope happens." Look at the first paragraph of the trope description of Frog Men. Can we honestly, without making assumptions or speculating, say which of these common traits of Frog Men apply to this work?
As the page has fewer than three valid entries with context, motion to cut.
Edited by HighCrate on Mar 12th 2019 at 5:45:33 AM
From The Batman (2021)
- Big Bad Ensemble: The movie is reportedly going to involve multiple villains from Batman's rogues gallery with The Penguin rumored to be the main Big Bad.
Is it speculation?
It is reportedly speculation, rumored to have been written by someone who isn't sure if the trope actually applies.
I've supposedly said that the entire page is like that, and I may support the notion that it might be cutlisted in the future.
Actually, let's take a closer look at that page:
- Big Bad Ensemble: The movie is reportedly going to involve multiple villains from Batman's rogues gallery with The Penguin rumored to be the main Big Bad. Speculation and rumor
- Film Noir: The Batman is expected to be a more character-driven and stylistically noir movie compared to previous iterations. It will also explore Batman's experiences as the world's greatest detective to a greater extent. Speculation
- Genre Throwback: According to the director, the works of Alfred Hitchcock will be a major inspiration for the movie. Speculation. Just because one of the creators is influenced by someone who made a lot of noir films doesn't necessarily mean the final product will be a Genre Throwback.
- Prequel: The film will take place years before Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice and will focus on Bruce Wayne earlier on in his career as a vigilante. Speculation. I have no doubt it's intended to be a prequel, but major changes and retools happen during production all the time.
- Revisiting the Roots: Matt Reeves stated in an interview that the film will feature "an almost-noir driven, detective version of Batman" that will emphasize the heart and mind of the character. Speculation. Suicide Squad went through massive rewrites and reshoots at the 11th hour to change the tone of the film. How do we know this won't as well?
The film isn't even in active production yet. This page is nothing but spinning vague statements from interviews as if they were ironclad fact. It's the definition of Speculative Troping. Cut it.
Edited by HighCrate on Mar 12th 2019 at 7:17:35 AM
Also, it got a little buried above, but motion to cutlist Maleficent: Mistress of Evil for having fewer than three valid tropes.
~Clock 22 and ~Chipmunk Hunk created those respective pages.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.My question is: If Word of God confirms that a trope is going to be in a work, is it still speculation?
Creator statements are still speculation, but you can cite the interview/blog/tweet. This is why trivia-tropes like Word of God aren't supposed to have the warning button inside main wiki examples; you can use them to give context to a trope. If said trope ends up happening entirely off-screen and the only evidence we have for the trope occuring is a creator statement, then it needs to be moved to the trivia subpage as a subbullet to Word of God. If it turns out they were blatantly lying, then it gets moved to the trivia subpage as a subbullet to Lying Creator.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.My apologies if my Batman 2021 page is mainly made up of speculation, I thought it should've been made due to the fact it's coming out in about two years and no one made the page yet. If needed, you can cut the page.
I didn't mean to add any wrong information to the website, I hope that no one thinks I meant any of my editing in malice.
Edited by Clock22 on Mar 12th 2019 at 11:17:52 AM
I really dislike this "speculate now, clean up later" approach. The whole point of this cleanup thread is to prevent messes like that.
Word of God isn't enough to make an example valid by itself, especially in a work that hasn't even been produced yet. That just leaves us with pages full of, "Well, Word of God said that this will happen." The creator isn't actually God. They can't predict the future. They've announced their intentions, but things change. Rewrites, reshoots, scrapped early drafts. Writers and directors can be replaced. Actors can be recast. We don't know whether the trope will actually happen in the work, whether it'll be a Missing Trailer Scene or What Could Have Been or what.
Now, if a trope is already demonstrably present in material that we do have access to, and citing Word of God can add further context, then fair enough. Write the example and include the Word of God.
Edited by HighCrate on Mar 12th 2019 at 11:32:45 AM
I consider Creator interviews and announcements to be part of the marketing for the work. I'd rather we put Unpublished Works all in the same category (instead of two places), but the current wiki policy is to allow examples from marketing and allow pages on the main Wiki. Thus, Creator statements are speculations on the finished product, but valid examples of marketing for the project.
Edited by crazysamaritan on Mar 12th 2019 at 3:14:16 PM
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Removed The Movie example from Steven Universe: The Movie and added this in its place:
- Wicked Heart Symbol: The teaser is framed with Garnet, Amethyst, Pearl, and Steven reflected in a heart-shaped gemstone. The gem flips, each time switching to another member, before flipping to a silhouetted Gem as wicked laughter is heard.
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