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Ah, right. Sorry. I tend to get snarky when I'm being spoken to with that tone. I'll remove that bit.
Yay for no-context pagetoppers.
Edited by TheLovecraftian on Jun 12th 2019 at 7:06:37 AM
Okay, let us assume that porting every single model and every single animation (and do keep in mind that this accounts for all the formes and variants, thus inflating the number beyond the number of individual species). Now you need to double check, probably even triple check, that nothing gets broken in transition, make sure that everything interacts correctly with everything else and so on and so forth. And that is top of creating all new models for new Pokémon and trainers, animating new moves (heck, they probably need to animate old moves depending on how they deal with them) etc etc. Things aren't as easy as simple drag-and-drop.
Edited by TPPR10 on Jun 12th 2019 at 1:09:37 PM
True. But, again, this is a team of people who have experience in the industry, and especially experience with this franchise specifically. They've worked these models before. Not only that, but an engine change doesn't occur overnight. They've probably been setting this up for quite a few years, probably ever since before we had a release date for the Switch. Which would mean they have a basic model for how to place a Pokémon into the new engine, something they can then exploit with the old models and animations to cut time. Give them a once-over, test them en-masse while the animators add more, you have a pattern established that can work pretty quickly.
Given the current amount of Pokémon we've already seen in these trailers, they probably have been using this to transfer them already, so transferring the rest would not take more than a few months depending on how many people are working on Gamefreak at the current time. And with how important this project is, what with being the first main Pokémon title on the Switch, you'd expect them to devote everything they have to it.
Edited by TheLovecraftian on Jun 12th 2019 at 7:18:49 AM
We can say with some certainty that the amount of labour involved in such a project is prohibitive. Because if it wasn't, we wouldn't be having this shitshow, as they would simply do it.
I hope we get to see following Pokemon from Yellow/Heart Gold/Soul Silver. We had Dummied Out animations from Sun and Moon, so I'd like to see them here.
I reckon the new Pokemon will be rather limited, given the pattern of Odd Generations = Lots of new faces and Even Generations = Not many new faces.
Given the current state and discussions surrounding the videogame industry, I'm in a permanent state of slight skepticism towards development practices. I don't think there's been any news regarding Nintendo or it's affiliates just yet, be it about them abusing their employees or them being lazy for cash like other companies, but still, I don't think there's that much of a reason for them to be doing this, especially after the introduction of Home.
Why do I get the feeling that there's going to be a Jimquisition episode about this shitstorm?
Edited by CybranGeneralSturm on Jun 12th 2019 at 3:29:56 AM
Saying "we know there's a problem because Masuda says there is" isn't going to convince people not to complain. Because with Game Freak's track record, many people don't believe this would be a problem for anyone else other than Game Freak, which makes it hard to take their explanation in good faith.
Actually, there has been news about Nintendo and crunch... in that Animal Crossing was deliberately delayed so as to not overwork their employees.
It's finally come to this.
I was hoping this would begin after we reached 1k Pokémon, but alas.
I mean, this is gonna sound quite unpopular, but logic dictates that, regardless of how much hardware processing capacity improves over consoles and how many "future-proofing" was done, they would eventually reach a "critical mass" of species that could no longer fit into one game in a reasonable way without significant loss of quality. I've always wondered what they would do once that happened, and it seems I got my answer sooner than I had expected.
It may seem like there haven't been any major changes, but a simple change in engines requires a lot of work to make sure everything transitions as properly as possible. And yes, animations do take up a lot of memory, regardless of the actual work involved. I am no programmer myself, but some friends who are commented that it's amazing that the current games aren't bigger than they are, memory-wise.
So yeah, this sucks big time and it really pissed me off, but it would come to be eventually.
Which is not to say that there aren't ways to deal with this. Patches should not be discarded as a possibility (especially considering the Switch hardware and the huge backlash that is happening right now), or maybe (yes) roster rotations between games. These ways may not be optimal though, given their being understaffed and overworked as they are.
Dunno if that says good things about Nintendo, or says a lot of the work left to do given that Japan work ethic is "keep going till you break".
People kept talking about the Pokemon Bank. From context I guessed that its where you store Pokemon to transfer between games, and is compatible with the 3DS games. When I looked it up for further details, I learned that it is a paid service, with an annual fee. Now I get why people aren't just regular pissed, but super pissed. People are paying for a service that exists specifically to transfer Pokemon between games, and Sword and Shield won't even use it.
Edited by WillKeaton on Jun 12th 2019 at 5:06:34 AM
I can't even begin to tell you the amount of hoops I had to jump through to pay for that thing, just because I'm not in Japan or the US. And yeah, it bothers me that this kinda makes all that effort to store my Pokémon pointless. It's just a part of the issue I have, but it is a part of it.
Well, regardless of what they do next, GF can't just ignore non-Galaran Mons forever. Hopefully they will still be using Bank or Home for when they come back, though.
I'm so mad. I've been playing Pokemon since Sapphire came out, and I've been consistently transferring all my Pokemon from game to game throughout my whole life. I have a humongous collection of Pokemon sitting in Bank and Ultra Sun right now, and those Pokemon are all the Pokemon from my literal childhood.
This is Game Freak telling me that I have to leave behind around half of my childhood Pokemon that I have kept with me for years and years now, and I will not stand for it. For me, this is personal.
Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jun 12th 2019 at 4:42:09 AM
I've been doing much the same, since Firered and Emerald. I've got personal teams, nuzlocke survivors, random shinies collected through the years, legendaries, mythologicals, event Pokémon, all sorts of things collected over the course of almost two decades. It's really frustrating that I might not be able to keep using them.
I mean, take my main teams for each game alone. I've made it a tradition of importing all my mains teams to update movesets and see how they measure up against the newest Elite Four. My Kanto and Hoenn team from Gen III have faced every champion in every game thus far, and now they might not get to do that this time just because the teams are broken up. Some might be transferred, some might not. It's really vexing.
Edited by TheLovecraftian on Jun 12th 2019 at 8:49:11 AM
I don't mind how the Pokemon restriction is done in Gen V, but this is a level of ridiculous and those are not the same thing whatsoever.
I wanted to expand this.◊
But, alas, Masuda says they are changing THE POLICY. So no more games with the complete roster.
And I say, it is a good time to resign.
I'll concede on my point about delaying the external media.
But if Gamefreak are so pressured they have to cut corners like this in order to pump or new merchandise. Then they still should move the series to a biannual release, because it seems they were stretched so thin for this one.
Also maybe they should focus less on the battle gimmicks every generation that they leave half baked and abandon next gen. That's just me though.
Personally, even if I agreed with the reasons given as to why they aren't including all the Pokemon (and I don't, or at least, I don't think any of them are valid problems that aren't of Game Freak's own making) I'd still have to call this a really scummy move just based on the timing.
If they wanted to tout this as a sort of fresh start, a cleaner slate on a brand new type of console from which to soft-reboot Pokemon... cool. I guess. Still don't necessarily agree with it, but hey. Different strokes. Don't do it after you just teased a central hub with full cross-game compatibility. It just feels so insulting to go "hey, we're making this awesome thing that can communicate between all the Switch games, Pokemon Go, AND Pokemon Bank, so you can store all your Pokemon in here!" only to turn around and say "Buuuuuut you're gonna have to keep waiting to see some of your potential favorites on the Switch, because Sword and Shield, the games we touted as being for more experienced longtime fans, is just straight-up not going to have some Pokemon in it".
And even worse, they announced it at the tail end of a treehouse segment. Not during the original unveiling of Home, not during the Pokemon-centered Direct a week ago, not during the actual Nintendo presentation where they were going to have maximum eyes watching and the perfect time to hit the maximum number of people and perhaps better explain and allay fears as to why this was happening. It feels tucked away, almost like a legal disclaimer. Like the sort of thing they were hoping they could sweep under the rug, and if it weren't for the immediate and vocal backlash, they might have.
Well, that was a dick move, indeed.
Behold our glorious animation upgrade.
I wonder if that was a big part of why the backlash was so big.
It is that the entire bestiary is somebody's favorite. 184 mons being missing from Ruby and Sapphire sent the franchise into hibernation.
Still, for the record, Masuda has said in Famitsu that "there is nothing decided on bringing them into Sw Sh via patches". And that he wanted to bring them all.
Guess they need to HIRE PEOPLE. As they HAVE ALL THE MONEY.
YES. If it's so difficult that it's causing problems like this, they need all the [REDACTED] help they can get.
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