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theLibrarian That all you got? from his own little world Since: Jul, 2009
That all you got?
#176: Mar 3rd 2021 at 8:17:07 AM

Yeah, Spike is a major minor character; he's in nearly every episode but he's very rarely the focus. Hitch is actually a main character.

That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.
Theriocephalus Amateur Veteran from gimme a map and a moment and I can tell you Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Amateur Veteran
#177: Mar 3rd 2021 at 8:42:05 AM

I am not familiar enough with G1 and G3 to tell whether any of the male characters was prominent enough to be counted as a main character.

I am not familiar with G3, but the main thing with G1 is that it doesn't have anywhere near as sharply defined a central cast as G4 does — mostly it has a number of characters of varying prominence who get rotated in and out of the spotlight, but there's a fairly smooth gradient between "staple of the show" and "appeared once and never again".

So with that in mind, insofar as a main cast exists, it's indubitably ninety percent female or more, but Spike is definitely a part of it (insofar as he tends to appear more often than most ponies, anyway). Danny... is maybe a part of it? He's a fairly prominent character, although not the degree that Megan or some of the major ponies are.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#178: Mar 3rd 2021 at 8:44:07 AM

I'm not sure that is such a good development. One of the strengths of this franchise, and the last series in particular, was its females-only cast, allowing for a strong roster of female personalities in the last series. This feels like another step in the direction of shifting the franchise more to a male focus, which we've already seen with Sunburst.

Optimism is a duty.
MorningStar1337 Like reflections in the glass! from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
Like reflections in the glass!
#179: Mar 3rd 2021 at 8:47:18 AM

I suppose it is a matter of who will be the protagonist. I know that a lot of male-focused shows with an Improbably Female Cast tend to have a male protagonist (especially Harem Series).

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Mar 3rd 2021 at 8:47:30 AM

VengefulBale Pythor from Dark Bale's Base Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Pythor
#180: Mar 3rd 2021 at 8:47:31 AM

[up][up] Eh, I'd hardly count Sunburst as a "shift in focus". Discord is more of a main character than him

Edited by VengefulBale on Mar 3rd 2021 at 10:47:37 AM

Certified Evil Genius and Commander
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#181: Mar 3rd 2021 at 8:48:27 AM

Yes, but when Sunburst shows up, he tends to suddenly be the most capable pony in the room.

Optimism is a duty.
VengefulBale Pythor from Dark Bale's Base Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Pythor
#182: Mar 3rd 2021 at 8:53:05 AM

[up] I mean, isn't FIM in general guilty of everyone (male, female ponies alike) being useless in critical times and only one guy being useful?

Certified Evil Genius and Commander
Snicka Since: Jun, 2011
#183: Mar 3rd 2021 at 8:59:57 AM

My impression, based on his body language, is that Hitch is that "over-confident daredevil" type that Rainbow Dash was in FiM. This type of role is rarely played by female characters, so having this role be filled with a male feels like a step back toward traditional gender roles.

[down]I guess you're answering to the post above mine, not my post, right?

Edited by Snicka on Mar 3rd 2021 at 6:02:14 PM

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#184: Mar 3rd 2021 at 9:01:06 AM

Yeah, but the thing is, that guy is usually a female. Making the capable one a male sends a rather different message on a show with a majority-female cast. Especially when the writer of that character is a male who seems to have a poor understanding of feminism.

Optimism is a duty.
TobiasDrake Queen of Good Things, Honest (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Queen of Good Things, Honest
#185: Mar 3rd 2021 at 9:16:48 AM

My impression, based on his body language, is that Hitch is that "over-confident daredevil" type that Rainbow Dash was in Fi M. This type of role is rarely played by female characters, so having this role be filled with a male feels like a step back toward traditional gender roles.

Ooh, I hope not. I could see it, given the way Gen 4 already used the Pillars of Equestria to dial back towards traditional gender archetypes and then "excused" AJ and Rainbow Dash's gender role non-conformity by making them a gay couple. I can definitely believe Rainbow Dash's role getting reassigned to a male character in the new cast.

But I hope that's not actually going to be what they're doing with Hitch here. It's believable, but I will say that a cocky smirk isn't nearly enough information to actually say definitively that this is the intent. Gonna file that under "Hasbro, Please Don't".

Edited by TobiasDrake on Mar 3rd 2021 at 9:18:09 AM

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
Sunchet Since: Oct, 2010
#186: Mar 3rd 2021 at 9:37:16 AM

I think Spike's role is nicely presented by the fact that he has a chair in the castle but it's a really small unmarked chair, right next to Twilight's.

@Redmess I think you're overreacting. I think adding token dude is a good thing. Generally, a male group/show is expected a token girl but girl groups usually insist on being female-only, no matter how many members they have. This is way more inclusive and hardly taking focus from women.

The only thing that worries me is that, judging by Hitch's body language in the teaser, they might go the stereotypical route and make him an overly cocky jock dude, probably the kind who keeps boasting and then failing humorously.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#187: Mar 3rd 2021 at 9:56:41 AM

But you're missing the part where having shows with a male-only cast is the default, whereas shows with females-only casts are a rarity. I don't see why there would need to be a male on the main cast for this show.

Optimism is a duty.
Snicka Since: Jun, 2011
#188: Mar 3rd 2021 at 10:49:40 AM

Can you tell a cartoon with predominantly male cast that does not have a "token girl" among its main characters? The TMNT have April, the Rescue Rangers have Gadget, DuckTales has Webby, the Smurfs have Smurfette (who is even the Trope Namer for The Smurfette Principle)...

Sunchet Since: Oct, 2010
#189: Mar 3rd 2021 at 11:12:21 AM

Exactly. What male-only? And April was probably the last time the token girl could be "outside of the team". Meanwhile, when girl shows have token dude, he's always outside. Spike is not a pony or Element of Harmony, Tuxedo is not Sailor Soldier, Caleb is not a Guardian, Malvaron is not a Mysticon...It's not like, say, Cheetara was just some kind of human hanging out with Thundercats or something.

Snicka Since: Jun, 2011
#190: Mar 3rd 2021 at 11:20:35 AM

The page Chromosome Casting lists Dastardly & Muttley in Their Flying Machines and The Trap Door as cartoons with zero female characters... the rest are just single episodes under the Western Animation header.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#191: Mar 3rd 2021 at 11:22:11 AM

Hmm, ok. I guess that's just a mistaken impression, then.

Optimism is a duty.
Snicka Since: Jun, 2011
#192: Mar 3rd 2021 at 11:29:38 AM

If you check the pages Chromosome Casting and Sliding Scale of Gender Inequality, you'll see that there are lots of works with male cast and no prominent female characters, but television cartoons don't seem to be among these. Note that television animation is a relatively new medium, existing only since the 1960s, so it's not that surprising.

MorningStar1337 Like reflections in the glass! from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
Like reflections in the glass!
#193: Mar 3rd 2021 at 11:32:57 AM

The most infamous case of male-only Chromosome Casting of which I can think of (andeven them I'm not sure if it counts beyond the main cast) would be Supernatural where the main characters are male most of the recurring characters are male and any attempt at a female recurring character becomes a target of Die for Our Ship (of which there are only two viable options as a result, Destiel and incest).

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Mar 3rd 2021 at 11:33:08 AM

Snicka Since: Jun, 2011
#194: Mar 3rd 2021 at 11:57:49 AM

Old adventure novels usually had a bad case of male-only Chromosome Casting. The most famous example is probably The Hobbit, but another classic one is The Lost World. It's notable that every single adaptation of The Lost World kept the core male cast (Challenger, Roxton, Malone and Summerlee), but they always added a token female or two to the group, always under a different name.

DoctorWTF Since: Jul, 2020
#195: Mar 3rd 2021 at 2:42:09 PM

Because if there's hundreds or thousands of years seperating the two stories, then does Happy Ending Override still apply?

... I mean, yeah, in a strict sense. But does that mean nothing bad can ever happen again in a story's universe, no matter how much time passes, because it would undo a happy ending?

The problem isn't something bad happening, but specifically having absolutely everything the Mane Six achieved over the course of "Friendship is Magic" flushed down the toilet.

Though it might arguably not be that bad if it were a recent development. That is, if the ponies had been living in harmony for most of the period between G4 and G5, and just need a friendship refresher course from this new crew.

TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#196: Mar 3rd 2021 at 3:12:36 PM

My actual guess is that this is a 'friendship recession' and Twilight made contingency plans to deal with it...Celestia-style, planting little clues here and there.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#197: Mar 3rd 2021 at 3:50:24 PM

So someone will have to make a New Friendship Deal, then.

Optimism is a duty.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#198: Mar 3rd 2021 at 4:49:59 PM

Wouldn't twilight still be around hundreds of years from now. Going off celestia and Luna.

Maybe they'll keep it as greater scope paragon of some sorts.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
DoctorWTF Since: Jul, 2020
#199: Mar 3rd 2021 at 5:06:04 PM

[up] Some have speculated that immortality is not a standard feature of alicorn physiology - that Celestia and Luna were kept alive by their magical connection to the sun and moon. Kind of hard to discuss lifespans when you aren't allowed to mention death.

Though if Twilight isn't immortal, one would expect her to account for that and arrange for her teachings to be preserved for future generations.

MorningStar1337 Like reflections in the glass! from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
Like reflections in the glass!
#200: Mar 3rd 2021 at 5:07:40 PM

I suspect that Twilight eventually appointed a successor and Ascended to a Higher Plane of Existence latter. Assuming that her adventures are history to G5 instead of fiction.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Mar 3rd 2021 at 5:08:14 AM


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