Pokémon Anime: Singular Series Split and Reorganization

Well, ever since the Image Pickin thread for the Pokémon anime brought the problem of the main page being constantly outdated by the show's ever growing cast and never ending adventure (which also threatens to turn the main image into a pixelated mess or an oversized photo), I suggested that since Pokémon show itself has been divided into separate series based on generations (Advanced Generation for Gen III, Diamond and Pearl for Gen IV, etc.), it would be best to divide the anime page into several pages dedicated to an individual series. And this garnered some traction among some Tropers, including Piterpicher.

Piterpicher had notified me that he created the Pokemon Anime Singular Series Sandbox to reorganize the tropes (and add new ones) into separate series from the main page, and asked me if I can help. Well, for me, it's a dream come too. After several days (possibly weeks) of adding, editing and organizing the sandbox, I think we have working foundation. Of course, more help, addition and advice would be nice. Such as a few variables that may need approval in light of Trope Clean-Up threads like Knight of Cerebus and Hate Sink. Or if the individual pages need need sub-folders for different seasons like XY and XYZ.

For example, in the Diamond and Pearl section, I identified three characters (Paul, Pokémon Hunter J, and Team Galactic Cyrus) that feel like they fit the bill of Knight of Cerebus since prior to their debut, the anime didn't feel that dramatic, serious or even dark compared to before. Of course, the problem is that they don't appear at the same time and yet also represent different aspects of the Pokémon show that the others don't represent (Paul is a cynical, ruthless rival but not evil, whereas Hunter J represents the arrival of ruthless villains, and Cyrus intentionally escalates the world ending stakes), it's a bit hard to narrow the examples down if possible.

Hopefully, this project will be productive and we can finally split the anime into separate series.

Edited by Shadao on Feb 16th 2019 at 12:08:38 PM

We do indeed have a working foundation. I don't think individual series need folders for each sub-season, they would generally have around eight tropes at most, not really enough for folder material. I'm also thinking about expanding descriptions for each series, which I have already done partially, but perhaps more should be added.

Edited by Piterpicher on Feb 16th 2019 at 8:33:39 PM

Glad to hear. As far as general description goes, I think it is best to describe the overall journey of Ash in that particular series as well as Ash's new companions and their journey, and the conflict with the regional villainous teams.

I think we can look into Bulbapedia's description for individual series as inspirations, that is if Bulbapedia is cooperating.

Edited by Shadao on Feb 16th 2019 at 11:21:56 AM

Should the pages all link to the same YMMV.Pokemon Anime and Trivia.Pokemon Anime, or should those two pages be split?

Hmmm, that's a hard one for me. Right now, I would say link them to the main YMMV and Trivia until we are able to sort out the more specific entries to go into individual pages while leaving the general reception of the whole anime to main pages. Each series has a different reaction (OS has nostalgia value, AG is not really talked about, DP had good reception, BW doesn't have good reception, XY generally has good reception save for a few contentions, and SM is a mixed bag leaning positive) and it would be better to have individual YMMY (not sure about Trivia though) in the long run if the anime goes on for the next 20 years.

Edited by Shadao on Feb 16th 2019 at 6:57:56 AM

I have managed to get quite a bit of individual YMMV, it's listed on the sandbox page in folders underneath the main anime pages. And I think there could still be more.

Well, I just reviewed and tweaked the Early-Installment Weirdness examples on the Kanto Saga and my goodness, the list is almost a page unto itself! I think it deserves its own dedicated page at this rate.

Edited by Shadao on Feb 22nd 2019 at 3:01:15 AM

EarlyInstallmentWeirdness.Pokemon already exists. Should the anime have its own page, then?

The entire list came from the anime main page itself, which is actually a bit longer with examples of Early-Installment Weirdness coming from Sun & Moon. I will note that the folder for the anime examples in that page link has a different description set of Early-Installment Weirdness (plus a few new ones that I didn't notice).

Maybe compare and contrast the list, clean up a few places, and simply cut the whole list with a brief overall description of how different the early Kanto days were compared to modern times and see here link, perhaps?

Even then, I think the anime folder needs to be reorganized chronologically.

Wouldn't Sun and Moon fall under Later-Installment Weirdness or Revisiting the Roots since it's the most recent saga?

Apparently, the qualification is that Sun and Moon's early episodes are quite different to how they written today. Technically, that is Early-Installment Weirdness within the context of the series on its own.

(x5) Maybe the anime examples should have their own page, then. EarlyInstallmentWeirdness.Pokemon Anime?

Bumping this old thread in light of the upcoming Detective Pikachu movie. I think it's mostly done as a foundation, but I don't know for sure. How much until they are ready?

This thread has stalled due to a realisation from me. I've realised that most of the time, we're not using official names for the anime. We often use stuff like YMMV.Pokemon Anime, when in fact the official name is Pokemon: The Series (it's used on Netflix and the Pokemon website), or Funny.Pokemon Diamond And Pearl Anime, when we should use Funny.Pokemon The Series Diamond And Pearl. However, to use official names, it seems like we'll need to move around 50 pages to variants of Pokemon: The Series (there's also the character pages on Characters.Pokemon Anime, like Characters.Pokemon Advanced Generation Cast which we'll have to move to Characters.Pokemon The Series Ruby And Sapphire). Don't worry about Recap pages though, they're fine. And I've used the official names on Sandbox.Pokemon Anime Singular Series. Overall, I'm sure this kind of move wouldn't go unnoticed, and I think we should also get some consensus for moving pages to official names. I do believe such a move to be necessary, though, as this wiki seems to go for official English names when it comes to naming works. I hope we can finish this before Sword and Shield has its anime.

Edited by Piterpicher on May 5th 2019 at 9:42:23 PM

I will say that they were only called The Series fairly recently (starting with XY). Before then, it was simply known as Pokémon, no distinction. Hence we have been using Pokémon anime to make it clear which Pokémon media we are talking about. I think this might warrant a Grandfather Clause considering how long it took for the company to give a proper distinction.

Edited by Shadao on May 5th 2019 at 11:10:23 AM

Admittedly, we do Grandfather Clauses sometimes… That's why VideoGame.Xenoblade is still on that name, rather than at VideoGame.Xenoblade Chronicles. So fine, I'll rename the folders to more current names. That said, why do we have pages like Funny.Pokemon XY rather than Funny.Pokemon XY Anime (and character pages use stuff like Characters.Pokemon XY Anime Rivals)? Should that be fixed? Only 3 pages use XY, while 5 use variants on XY Anime.

Edited by Piterpicher on May 5th 2019 at 8:26:57 PM

XY Anime just make sure it's not confused with XY games. But lately, I've been looking into the Bulbapedia's talk pages. Apparently, they are considering to go by the official route of the Pokémon Company's categorization.

If that is case, perhaps the fan names can be a redirect alternative names (with the bonus of "Also known as AG" such and such) while the "Pokémon: The Series" can be the official names. Or vice versa, which ever is easier. It might take a large overall regardless.

I think there should be a vote or crowner of how we name these series because this is clearly not a simple split.

Edited by Shadao on May 5th 2019 at 4:01:32 AM

The current series name overrules the preceding names, so I'd go with a rename, but a crowner should probably be set up to make a decision. I just hope that "the Series" is permanent so the wicks have to be changed back in ten years.

When the Sword & Shield anime gets officially announced, what should be done? Does a page instantly get created? What if the Japanese name isn't the same as the English name? I don't think an English reveal will be for several months.

As of now, the pages have yet to be launched. But I think it's a safe bet to assume it'll be Pokémon The Series: Sword & Shield.

And hey, we did rename Pokémon Everyone's Story to Pokémon The Power of Us. I don't think renaming would be a big issue (but I do want a crowner for the overall naming for individual series).

I'd like to see that crowner too, if only so we can say we have a consensus one way or the other.

I feel a crowner is necessary, even though I believe the renames to be justified.

Going by Wikipedia it's "currently advertised as Pokemon the Series in English."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PokA9mon_(anime)

Edited by lalalei2001 on Jun 8th 2019 at 12:45:05 PM

A hurdle we haven't considered yet is the distinction between the Japanese/English series. The original Japanese series was split into two English series, but this distinction did not exist until a decade after the fact.

It would probably be easiest to count the first 274 episodes (ending on "Hoenn Alone!") as a single series, to match both the Japanese broadcast and the original English broadcast.

So in light of a recent and groundbreaking Pokémon event in the anime, I kinda want to revive this old project again, especially if the new series is a reboot.

It seems that the basic structure is well established but over the past few months of no activity, I suspect that new entries have been made in the main page. How much more tropes and details should we add before it's all ready to go?