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Birds Of Prey (2020)

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TravelPsych Since: Sep, 2016
#301: Feb 11th 2020 at 8:04:08 PM

Saw it, loved it. I really like the direction they took her style in for this movie and think the roller derby inspired looks were on point. I liked how outrageous they were while maintaining some 90s edginess to them. The way the movie played up her education and past as a psychiatrist was a nice touch and drove in how dangerous she can be under the wacky exterior.

Huntress was hilarious. The contrast between her competence as an assassin and her practicing her introduction was hilarious.

I couldn’t get enough Montoya. The whole team worked together and I hope we get more of them.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#302: Feb 11th 2020 at 8:53:45 PM

Watching this I get the feeling that it will get a really Even Better Sequel.

Like one of those cases where “The first one was alright but the second one will be fucking shacktastic amazing.”

And it logically should be. Now that introductions & set-ups are out of the way we can head straight into the action & hopefully give the rest of the Birds actual character arcs. And I can see some of the possibilities.

Cain would deal with her family issues in Lady Shiva, Canary puts to rest her feelings about her mother hopefully with the introduction of Wildcat as her past gets delved on, Renee can become Question and/or get a love interest, & then there’s possible new members, all to the backdrop of them fighting ninja assassins throug Shiva commanding the League of Shadows.

There’s a lot of potential here. The only issue is that it’s a lot of fucking potential. Too much potential one could say.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#303: Feb 11th 2020 at 9:20:18 PM

One thing I'd love is if each sequel to this (if it gets any) focused on another character, which thanks to the change in perspective shifts the kind of narration and the genre of the humor.

Like, the next one focuses on Montoya's perspective, so it gets a lot of parody 80's cop action drama angles to it. Or from Huntress', so it turns into a Take That Us parody of tryhard dark action movies.

The only downside is of that is that Canary is the only one who isn't - on her own - funny. Which is to say that her character leans heavier on emotional weight than on humor compared to the rest of the cast, and when it comes to jokes she mostly responds to the others.

But then, I want Dinah in the Justice League, so I'm fine with her not getting her own movie if that happens. Or there being a Green Arrow family movie with her front and center.

The number one thing I always think of when I think of Black Canary is "led the Justice League," and I'd love to see this Canary grow into that kind of character over the course of several movies: go from this insecure person who isn't even sure she wants to do the right thing but can't resist when someone really needs her, to a determined and assured leader who can corral beings of galactic power to the right path through sheer force of will.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#304: Feb 12th 2020 at 4:41:43 AM

Star Wars and Captain Marvel and Brave and so on all had media headlines like that and their numbers were fine. Brand power (and the rating) is what's likelier to be the source of the money issue. If dudebros really had the power to sink or float a movie, Alita: Battle Angel would've done much better in the US.

Also film crews don't control what media outlets title their articles.

I’m going to agree and disagree. The films you mentioned all had feminist themes but they never talked about things like "male gaze" and "representing misogyny" as the main themes. Star Wars is well...Star Wars and the concept of female characters wasn’t framed the way BOP did, Brave was a family film (something the R rated Harley Quinn was never meant to be) and Captain Marvel was a feminist film but the negative articles were mostly from the aforementioned dudebros. Same with Alita, banners over the 2020 Oscars aside. It became a cult hit because of circumstance, not advertising.

No, film crews don’t control what media outlets title their articles. But when the directors, the producers, and the actors are all saying the same thing, that this is a film about fighting the patriarchy and Ewan Mc Gregor is playing a misogynist, people get that idea that that’s what the film will be about. It’s not a movie for you, the same way Tim Miller said that Terminator Dark Fate would "terrify misogynists" (although I contend the woes of that film had to do with the Terminator franchise exhausting all of its brand goodwill years ago).

You’re right about the advertising at least. Harley is not Deadpool no matter how much DC tries to make her Deadpool. Mostly because Deadpool as a character can carry a story by himself while Harley needs an interesting crew to bounce off of. I guess if there was a way to separate the two, it’s that Deadpool stories have characters reacting to him, while Harley stories have her reacting to others (which is why she needs strong characters to bounce off of like Joker or Poison Ivy). And the Birds have no real casual market penetration (the last time the BOP were referred to as such was a Batman: The Brave and the Bold episode that didn’t get reran very often because of a fairly suggestive song and dance number).

I maintain it wasn’t just one thing that sank this movie, but a lot of things in unison. Now it’s up to word of mouth to give the film legs.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#305: Feb 12th 2020 at 4:57:31 AM

I'm going to go with a theory that people aren't seeing it because they didn't like Suicide Squad and that Harley's massive-massive following is in large part teenage girls that can't see it.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
DeanCole Since: Jun, 2015
#306: Feb 12th 2020 at 5:10:40 AM

Eh, I do think the 'girl power' marketing has become divisive. Yea its not the only factor but it definitely didn't help either.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#307: Feb 12th 2020 at 5:40:47 AM

[up][up][up]I actually come from a country that didn't censor that. They must have been asleep when they let that in uncut[lol].

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#308: Feb 12th 2020 at 5:43:06 AM

Huh Harley already having a massive teen girl audience rather makes the R-rating a pretty dumb move.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#309: Feb 12th 2020 at 5:45:15 AM

They more or less removed the potential biggest audience for the film for unexplained reasons. An r rating isn't something associated with the birds of prey or harely usually.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#310: Feb 12th 2020 at 6:01:16 AM

Hey, so Montoya’s t-shirt was censored in my country for some reason.

Does anyone know what it says?

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#311: Feb 12th 2020 at 6:04:04 AM

I think it said "I shaved my balls for this".

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#312: Feb 12th 2020 at 6:08:12 AM

...Why the fuck did they censor it then?

While leaving everything else in the movie unedited?

Censorship is weird.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#313: Feb 12th 2020 at 6:09:28 AM

I guess that's the hill they wanted to die on. Censors having a weird hatred of swear words over violence is a thing for some reason.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Krory21 Since: Jan, 2019
#314: Feb 12th 2020 at 6:23:20 AM

It also may have been a 'we'll censor this of you leave that and that alone' situation. Kevin Smith has mentioned negotiating with the ratings board before.

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#315: Feb 12th 2020 at 6:32:46 AM

[up][up]Well except every spoken swear word in the film is left untouched. That's why it's baffling.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#316: Feb 12th 2020 at 6:35:34 AM

Really ?

That sounds odd....

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#318: Feb 12th 2020 at 6:40:25 AM

Ah, I should also add that my country does not speak English. I watched the subbed version, and Montoya's t-shirt was the only thing that was censored in it, so I thought it might have been something politically-related.

Edited by Nightwire on Feb 12th 2020 at 6:40:51 AM

TravelPsych Since: Sep, 2016
#319: Feb 12th 2020 at 10:03:49 AM

I agree that the R rating might be putting a dent in box office numbers on top of lingering Suicide Squad stink. Suicide Squad is the trash that got thrown onto Montoya and the R rating is the t-shirt she had to wear from lost and found. Or something.

Word of mouth and critical reception might give it a long tail and it’s doing good internationally.

Sequels with narration from Montoya (with everyone pointing out how cliche she’s being) and Huntress would be hilarious. Black Canary I imagine as more of the Straight Woman of the group with the humor she adds coming from reigning in and playing off Huntress and Montoya, both of whom probably assume they’re the Straight Women of the group.

I wonder what other meta humans they might bring in as members of the core group, recurring allies, or villains. One of my favorite things about the movie is how it had a terrifying villain in Black Mask but still leaves tons of room for escalation of stakes in future movies.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#320: Feb 12th 2020 at 10:20:35 AM

Part of the issue is they want to make Harley Quinn into the DC version of Deadpool.

Which was praised for its R-rating.

But Deadpool's fandom is pretty solidly 30+ year old comic book boys. Harleys is a lot more mixed due to the fact she's colorful and goofy as well as a violent antiheroine.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Feb 12th 2020 at 10:23:10 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#321: Feb 12th 2020 at 12:57:46 PM

There were at least two families with kids during my screening (yes, really tongue), so maybe there was a teen and under demographic that was missed for this film. Marvel movie audiences tended to include kid, and Shazam's family-friendliness might've been how it circumvented being based on a lesser known hero.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Feb 12th 2020 at 1:00:44 AM

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#322: Feb 12th 2020 at 1:16:07 PM

Deadpool in the modern day is designed to appeal to the 18-34 male demo. Swearing antihero with a lot of guns, fourth wall humor, and usually when he's a guest on a more family friendly show he's being shown as purposefully held back so he doesn't kill or curse.

Harley is a lot more...confused. She's a key part of several kid friendly ad lines (DC Superhero Girls) yet has an adult cartoon and this movie. She's supposed to be this feminist icon, yet most of her iconic imagery is her with Joker. So the end result is a character that can’t carry a film with a brand that doesn’t have the loyalty Marvel does, for better or for worse, attempting to thrust a square peg into a round hole.

Demetrios Lucky Seven from Des Plaines, Illinois (unfortunately) Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Lucky Seven
#323: Feb 12th 2020 at 1:40:06 PM

I hate how the OG costume has now become representative of that.

Sorry for the lateness of my reply, but now that you mention it, you're right. The Joker didn't even appear at all in Batman and Harley Quinn, and in that one, she wore the classic black and red costume of her own free will.

Come on! Let's bless them all until we get fershnickered!
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#324: Feb 12th 2020 at 1:43:53 PM

My feelings on the costume are: I like the red and black harlequin suit, but only in stylized animated works. In live-action or art with realistic proportions it looks unsettling to me.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#325: Feb 12th 2020 at 1:52:19 PM

Swap the bright red for a lighter shade of pink maybe?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server

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