I have the feeling that "Soft Reboot" is simply when fans just can't accept "reboots" so they have to say that it's still in continuity.
I mean, it makes no sense. It can't be the same continuity if the storyline is restarted, even if the characters are the same.
There may also be cases where a work, or its creator, calls their work "a reboot/reimagining/remake/remaster/etc" when in practice, they're wrong, either out of ignorance or deliberate lie.
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No. Soft Reboots are definitely a real thing. They're entry points for new fans, light on explicit references to earlier installments, but not retconned out entirely. Generally this happens when Long-Runners either want to attract a new generation of fans but not throw everything out and start over from scratch, or the work has experienced a bit of Sequelitis and wants to course-correct.
Doctor Who is an excellent example of this. The revived 2005 series is definitely still canon with the original series from the 1960s, but you don't need to have watched the original to enjoy the new one. The revived series has actually done this with itself twice: first when Steven Moffat took over as showrunner, and again when Chris Chibnall did.
Anyway, these tropes should definitely have an entry on Square Peg Round Trope if they don't already, and that write-up for Sister Trope works, too.
Edited by Primis on Jan 27th 2019 at 8:50:44 AM
How do we know if the works of Soft Reboot don't "retcon old things out completely"? Even Continuity Reboot would have at least a few things stay the same.
"The revived 2005 series is definitely still canon with the original series from the 1960s"
I never watched Dr. Who, but I have to question what you mean by "still canon with". Different people apparently have different idea about what amounts to "canon" (and "continuity", for that matter) and how that word is used.
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NaNo 4328 / 50,000
No Story Arc stems from the previous version, but some of the Noodle Incident references are Continuity Nods if you were familiar with the older series.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
It can't be a "Continuity" Nod if the storyline is different. (I doubt Mythology Gag works either)
There might be a better "reference" trope for this kind of case, as this trope would help defining Soft Reboot better.
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...why not?
An explicit reference to an earlier story clearly means that there's continuity.
Soft Reboot is more about instigating a tonal change to be engaging for both old and new audiences, continuity is maintained and even nodded towards but not demanded of the audience. Usually this is established fairly clearly in the story, but other times it's confirmed just by Word of God.
Continuity Reboot as a trope leans more towards resetting big franchises, erasing everything that came before and starting fresh. The Remake as a trope leans more towards making a new version of a singular story. You wouldn't really say that A Star Is Born (2018) is a Continuity Reboot of the previous three versions of the same story.
In general all these tropes will have some overlap (and even professionals have used professional terms wrong), so long as individual definitions are clear and examples consistent we shouldn't really worry about trying to define them apart from each other.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
@ [[1]: Thank you for that.
As for the Sister Trope definitions, are they OK?
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Your Sister Trope definitions imply that one is a Sub-Trope to another (like Trope A, except add B).
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Ah, I messed up my wording, sorry.
I'm simply confused about what kind of "nod" a Soft Reboot story would show and how it's called. If it's nods towards the original (pre-rebooted) story, it can't be called "continuity nod" as that is defined as "nods to the previous works in the continuity" (like the Solo and Empire Strikes Back example) and Soft Reboot means it's a new continuity (even if it's identical in some way to the old one).
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No, Soft Reboot does not mean it's a new continuity. That's where the "soft" part comes in: it's still canon with what came before, it just doesn't constantly reference it.
"What came before"? Now I'm even more confused with the wording.
Taken from the page itself:
Why do I read this as "a reboot, except not really"? All of those explanations make them sound not like reboots at all. Pitiful.
Some of the examples aren't exactly (meant to be) reboots too; Mega Man X, for one, is a Sequel Series to Mega Man Classic. It's not a reboot in any way.
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NaNo 4328 / 50,000
That makes some sense, perhaps the Soft Reboot page could be improved slightly and Wall of Text shortened?
Have I got things wrong with Ultimate Universe at the top of this page?
Edited by Merseyuser1 on Jan 29th 2019 at 5:36:34 PM
Then where's the actual reboot there? Just Word of God? Or maybe because the old story doesn't continue anymore?
You're getting so hung up on the word "reboot" that you're completely ignoring the "soft" modifier.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Well, as crazysamaritan has clarified what the trope meant by "reboot", now I'm questioning the "soft" part.
It can't be a reboot if it's a sequel.
...nor if it's a prequel or Time Skip.
There's Elsewhere Fic, but I don't know if we have official works version of that trope.
...Now does "sequel" mean "following the previous work in the same continuity" or not? (And doesn't Non-Linear Sequel sound like an oxymoron?)
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NaNo 4328 / 50,000
- Soft: This story is still in Continuity with the previous stories.
- Reboot: The characters and plot are introduced to the audience as if it didn't have any prior Story Arcs.
Edited by crazysamaritan on Jan 29th 2019 at 10:22:30 AM
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
What about this on the Continuity Reboot page:
Often called a "re-imagining" by squeamish writers not wanting to admit that they are throwing out previous continuity (though not always, see Alternate Continuity for exceptions), though this causes confusion as "re-imagining" is also used in the same context as "remake": ground-up retellings with no connection to past continuity (Planet of the Apes (2001), for example, which is credited with popularizing the term "re-imagining" in this context).
Isn't re-imagining a separate trope or not?
"Re-imaginings" are always Continuity Reboots. I don't know that I'd call them distinct enough to be a separate trope, but calling something a "re-imagining" does have certain connotations to it that just "reboot" or "remake" don't.
Remakes and reboots tend to just be "do that again", while re-imaginings change certain fundamental aspects of the original.
Battlestar Galactica (2003) is a great example. It's a reboot of the original 1978 series and has the same basic premise, but it's wildly different in execution.
But I wouldn't call, say, The Dark Knight Trilogy a re-imagining of the 90s Batman films, even though those are wildly different as well. They don't really change much of anything fundamental about Batman, they're just Darker and Edgier, at least in comparison to the earlier movies.
Basically, a "re-imagining" is what you get when you throw Continuity Reboot, Retool, and Ultimate Universe into a blender and press "purée".
Edited by Primis on Jan 31st 2019 at 2:44:06 AM
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
I don't think it's all that confusing. Using Pokemon as an example:
- Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire is a Soft Reboot. The characters, setting, plot and most Pokemon are new, but it still exists in the same continuity as the previous two games, Pokémon Red and Blue and Pokémon Gold and Silver. Because it doesn't follow the connecting plotline set by the other two games and goes on it's own path, it's a reboot, but because it does still exist in the world of the other two games, it's only a Soft Reboot. New players could come in blind and not need to know the other two games to enjoy Ruby and Sapphire.
- Pokémon: I Choose You! is an actual Continuity Reboot of the Pokemon anime. It's a retelling of the first season, and while some of the events of the anime happen in the movie, they happen in different contexts, sometimes for different reasons, and the story ultimately ends up in an entirely different place. It's not in the same continuity as the original anime. It's in it's own continuity and is a retelling of Ash's journey.
Edited by WarJay77 on Jan 31st 2019 at 2:51:08 PM
Current Project: The Team
But if the story doesn't continue, you can't say that it's still in "continuity".
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It says on the page The Remake "Reimaginings take more liberties with the original than remakes typically do, so billing a project as a reimagining is a signal that the audience should not expect it to closely follow the original."
I've seen in this TLP discussion about Soft Reboot
that "reboot" is an often misused word.
I don't want to start a new TLP for Re Imagining as if it were a trope if there's no point to doing so. I don't want to get into The Same, but More with launching a trope; I've already done this once.
Am I correct in thinking that The Remake and Continuity Reboot are Square Peg Round Trope examples?
I'm wick-checking these two tropes, as some of them are simply:
or
and I want to avoid a zero-context example.
On the same subject, would this fit Sister Trope:
I'm just checking to ensure that the tropes are used correctly, and that my possible entries for Sister Trope make some sense.
Edited by Merseyuser1 on Jan 27th 2019 at 2:13:46 PM