I'm not sure it would really help. Exactly how would it change how people use it?
Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.Well, for starters, it was established that a good number of the examples currently on the page are just "work X has Y twist", not even explaining how this twist is a spoiler. If anything, my idea wouldn't change how people use the trope, but make the trope conform to how people are using it.
Second, as discussed, the concept of something that happens so early on in a work somehow being a spoiler doesn't make a lot of sense. The beginning of a work is meant to establish what the work is about, so of course important, plot-relevant details are going to be revealed, so it's strange to assume that these details are even meant to be spoilers in the first place and not just ordinary reveals to set the scene. My question early on, "How is any of this a spoiler", was only barely answered, with the assumption being that, because these events are twists that happen early on in the story, people knowing about them before engaging in the work would be a spoiler... even if the work itself reveals the spoiler on the cover... or in the synopsis... or in the title.
My point is that all of these things we're discussing are objectively twists because the work built up one way and then shifted gears part-way through to reveal the true plot of the story. Regardless of whether or not these twists get ruined by the marketing, by definition, they're plot twists. So why do we have to go and insist these twists are inherently spoilers, despite that they're integral to the plot of the work as a whole, revealed almost immediately, and the examples don't even explain how these things are spoilers?
We're just putting a label on these events that I find rather misleading. Spoiler implies that someone knowing the spoiler before engaging in the work would quite literally spoil the work for them, since there's no real mystery. How does knowing that Percy Jackson's world has Greek Gods in it ruin the work for anyone? It's literally the basis of the story. It can be considered a twist because, even if it's not kept secret by any means, the story frames the Greek Gods existence as an unexpected turn of events. That doesn't mean this twist is a spoiler to be ruined by the title of the work.
I just haven't heard any good arguments as to why we should call these examples spoilers instead of what they actually are, which are just early plot twists. Until someone can give me a good reason why I'm wrong about this, I'm sorry to say I won't budge, and nor will I believe that the amount of work it would take to change the title would overshadow the gain of having a title that actually describes the trope and the examples.
Edited by WarJay77 on Mar 17th 2019 at 2:00:03 PM
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall![]()
I'm a bit sorry for the big, unprovoked rant there, but once I got started I couldn't really help myself.
I've always defined First-Episode Spoiler as when a series does establish a status quo but then replaces it at the end of the pilot to create a different status quo. In the same vein as Decoy Protagonist.
For instance, take the pilot of Gargoyles:
It's established right away that gargoyles used to co-exist with humans, but were betrayed and hunted to near-extinction in the year 994. Only 6 gargoyles survived, who are then frozen in stone for a thousand years, and then woken up by a friendly Eccentric Millionaire in 1994.
That's the status quo that the show goes with for the first half of the pilot, but at the end, it's revealed that a 7th gargoyle survived: the mate of one of the other 6 gargoyles, someone they specifically believed died back in 994. It's also revealed that this 7th gargoyle knows the aforementioned "friendly" Eccentric Millionaire, and the two of them are actually the Big Bad Duumvirate, and this is the real status quo going forward.
If you're going in completely blind, I can totally see how this could be considered a spoiler.
Sure, but again, that's still also a twist. Why can't we just mention in the description that, even though these twists happen early on, they may still be spoilers for the unaware?
I think the only reason to use the current name is that the use of this trope implies something about the spoiler policy. Any work where this trope applies, the twist shouldn't be spoiler-tagged below the line (and this should be formalized in the Sandbox).
With 2,643 inbounds and 707 wicks, it's not trivial to rename, but we've done it for more highly used tropes.
Edited by naturalironist on Mar 18th 2019 at 10:24:07 AM
"It's just a show; I should really just relax"![]()
That works. I was just weighing in on the idea that "nothing that happens in the first episode can be considered a spoiler", which I don't agree with.
I have no real problem renaming this trope to First-Episode Twist.
Yeah, I don't disagree that nothing that happens in the first episode can be considered a spoiler, just that what the trope is currently describing is twists, which may or may not be spoilers.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallI agree that the first episode pulling a Bait-and-Switch with the status quo is a valid trope. I also think renaming would be a good idea, and think First-Episode Twist is a better name than the current one.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 20th 2019 at 1:42:08 PM
I got a rock for Halloween.Hmm, any suggestions? First-Episode Twist was being tossed around, Idk if there was anything else mentioned.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallI mentioned Early Twist earlier in the thread. First Part Twist?
Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!First-Episode Twist is right on target, why complicate things?
"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
I guess just to ensure that any possible disagreement with the title can be heard, as to avoid ignoring other potential name ideas.
I think both First-Episode Twist and First Part Twist are good. Both could go on the crowner.
Edited by GastonRabbit on May 3rd 2019 at 6:58:06 AM
I got a rock for Halloween.
Crown Description:
Whether certain examples are "spoilers" is too debatable, especially when compared to "twist".

Fair enough I suppose, I just think it would be a more accurate title and fix some of the issues we've been over in this thread.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall