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Hate Sink cleanup

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The main concern of a Hate Sink is whether the narrative treats the character as someone intended to be despised.

The character in question must actually display detestable qualities, and be hated by other characters at least, or treated by the narrative like someone you are supposed to hate. The author's declared intent cements an example, but is not needed if the narrative itself treats the character as someone who is supposed to be hated.

A Hate Sink may have charismatic traits, a troubled past, or complexity, but in order for this trope to be in effect, such traits must be de-emphasized by the narrative in favour of their detestable traits.

Please note that we do not use Effort Posts.

Edited by gjjones on Dec 3rd 2020 at 7:43:25 AM

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#2101: Oct 31st 2019 at 2:07:19 PM
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#2102: Oct 31st 2019 at 5:17:38 PM

[tup] Ralf and Joachim

Looper, Georgie, any thoughts on the Bronx Warriors trio?

Looperreallyreallyrocks Since: Jun, 2018
#2103: Oct 31st 2019 at 6:07:53 PM

I’ll read the EP’s and vote on them later.

UPDATE: Alright, I read the proposals just now. Not familiar with the work, so I’m not too sure... but I’ll give a weak [tup] anyway since they sound like real dicks.

Edited by Looperreallyreallyrocks on Oct 31st 2019 at 9:49:23 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#2104: Oct 31st 2019 at 8:29:34 PM

  • Bronx Warriors series:
    • 1990: The Bronx Warriors: Hammer the Exterminator is a mercenary who left the crime-ridden Bronx to make a name for himself. When the daughter of a recently-deceased MegaCorp president flees to the Bronx so the Vice President can't use her as a puppet, Hammer is sent in to capture or eliminate her. When the girl is defended by a criminal named Trash, Hammer kills some of his gang and pays other to betray them. When this doesn't work, he starts a Mob War with a rival group so he can kill the two and escape undetected. Trash manages to end the war, so Hammer gives up and has sone thugs burn both gangs alive.
    • Escape 2000:
      • Floyd Wengler is a mercenary hired to clear out the Bronx so it can be gentrified. Being Only in It for the Money unlike his well-intentioned bosses, Wengler immediately starts massacring the burough. Trash survives one of these attacks and starts a rebellion, so Wengler has various rebels' relatives kidnapled and forced to suicide bomb their base. When his boss President Clark is kidnapped, Wengler takes the opportunity to betray him so his replacement can pay him more, forcing his goons to kill themselves in booby traps while he hunts them down. The people of the Bronx start to openly revolt against Wengler, so he simply abandons his men to their fates, killing anybody who hinders his escape.
      • Vice President Hoffman is one of the people managing the gentrification project, and easily the most loathsome of the bosses. Happily signing off on Wengler's genocidal plans, Hoffman secretly plots to usurp the company from Clark. He seizes an opportunity to do so when Clark is kidnapped, offering Wengler a raise if he kills him. After the assassination succeeds, Hoffman has his chauffeur drive him away from the ensuing battle between his men and the Bronx's residents in cowardice.

Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Oct 31st 2019 at 8:31:23 AM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#2105: Oct 31st 2019 at 8:57:21 PM

Hey, since a few more minutes are left, I wanted to give one last Halloween EP.

What's the work?

Flowey is Not a Good Life Coach is an Undertale Dark Fic that is either a prequel or Alternate Universe to the original game (it is ambiguous), following Papyrus as he begins training with Flowey. Flowey, bored and wanting to try something new, decides to help Papyrus become a Royal Guard member.

Except that his 'training' is psychological torture that slowly breaks down Papyrus...

Who is Flowey the Flower? What does he do?

Flowey is, as in canon, a dear friend of Papyrus. One day, Flowey divulges a bit of his past as Asriel. Then he decides to teach Papyrus the same lesson he failed to learn- that it is kill or be killed.

To this end, he starts putting Papyrus through a 'training regimen' that consists of Flowey brutally beating up Papyrus and challenging him to defend himself. He outright tells Papyrus that he is fighting for his life- and a later chapter states that he reloads saves, heavily implying if not indirectly stating that he kills Papyrus during these training exercises before resetting to revive him. Every time Papyrus is being disobedient, Flowey uses his vines to break his arm or some other body part, and it is written in full gruesome detail. He then tells Papyrus that the training will occur every night, and warns Papyrus to keep the training a secret- and that if he tells, Flowey will go after his loved ones. Not an easy task, considering that Flowey often leaves Papyrus with horrible bruises and scars. Whenever they meet, Flowey also tries to manipulate Papyrus by telling him that his loved ones are worthless and holding him back, and using his genuinely tragic backstory as Asriel to lower Papyrus's guard.

Papyrus spends the story in fear of his former 'best friend', and tries to keep what is going on a secret, which gets increasingly harder as Flowey's activities take a toll on him. During a spar session with Undyne, Papyrus sees Flowey in the distance, waving to him, causing him to freak out, lose balance, and accidentally fling a powerful spell at Undyne, severely wounding her. Papyrus then accuses Flowey of setting him off on purpose to hurt Undyne- though Flowey denies it, it is unclear if he really did not mean to or if he is making a feeble attempt at deflecting the charge.

Flowey constantly pressures Papyrus into coming to practice every night, and with the immense burden on him, Papyrus changes from the cheerful skeleton we know him as to a bitter, quiet man who frequently gets into arguments with his brother Sans- and not 'Sans made a pun, how dare you' arguments, legitimate arguments. As Papyrus grows more distant from his former pals, Flowey encourages his increasing estrangement.

It all comes to a head when Undyne falsely accuses Sans of abusing Papyrus, thinking that he is the source of his injuries. Papyrus, distraught at his brother being imprisoned unfairly but unwilling to disclose the true abuser's name (for to do so would put them all in danger), runs away into the forest. Then Flowey shows up and gives Papyrus one last test- he must kill an innocent monster. Papyrus, of course, does not want to comply, so Flowey threatens his loved ones. First, he wants Papyrus to murder a teen snowdrake- instead, Papyrus warns the snowdrake to run. Flowey, once again punishing Papyrus for this, then tries (unsuccessfully) to get Papyrus to kill a moldsmal. When Papyrus refuses, Flowey offs the moldsmal himself.

Finally, Sans shows up to rescue Papyrus- so Flowey appears and decides to kill them both. It is only thanks to the help of Undyne that the Foul Flower is finally slain by Papyrus himself. Even then, his last words to Papyrus are how proud he is of him finally killing someone.

What makes him personally despicable?

While he never quite commits mass murder, Flowey is still awful here. It is indicated that he kills Papyrus repeatedly, and besides, his brutal physical and psychological torture is described in detail and enough for him to qualify. He also murders a moldsmal onscreen, an event played for sorrow and horror despite moldsmals not being sapient.

Mitigating Qualities?

Flowey still has his Freudian Excuse here. However, the fic takes the stance that Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse. Flowey uses this to manipulate Papyrus, and he himself begins to consider it less and less. The fic essentially treats Asriel and Flowey as two separate characters. As the fic says in the last chapter:

The things Flowey had done and threatened to do were unpardonable. An innocent monster was dead, his friends had been put in terrible danger, and Papyrus had memories and scars and a new level of violence that he would never be rid of.

And he dies in the end, so the possibility of redemption is thrown out the window, especially if one takes the interpretation of the work being an Alternate Universe.

Verdict?

He fails the CM test due to agency issues, but I am certain he will pass here, so nice consolation prize, I guess.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#2107: Nov 1st 2019 at 6:03:14 AM

[tup] Flowey.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#2108: Nov 1st 2019 at 6:05:08 AM

New proposals, from The ABCs of Death.

    The Dog's Trainer 

Who's the candidate?

An otherwise-unnamed dogfighter from "D is for Dogfight."

What does he do?

He runs an underground fighting ring where he kidnaps dogs. When their humans go looking for them, they're kidnapped too. Both wre subjected to Training from Hell until they are forced to fight each other to the death. And based on the midsing posters he keeps as trophies? He's done this dozens of times. Luckily, karna gets him when his most revent fighter manages to calm his dog down, and the two team up to wreck the entire ring, finishing the trainer off with a fire extinguisher to the skull.

Personally despicable?

Forces people to fight their own dogs to the death for sport.

Redeeming qualities?

None. The short is light on characterization, but he's shown to enjoy his work.

Verdict?

[tup]

    Frau Scheisse 

Who's the candidate?

A fox who is also a Nazi, from "H is for Hydro-Electric Diffusion."

What does she do?

Pretending to be a burlesque dancer, Scheisse seduces British pilot Bertie the Bulldog into a trap. She has a small robot punch him in the balls before subjecting him to Electric Torture with a special machine. She slowly lowers him to electrified water, aiming for a painful death, before Bertie is teminded to keep calm and carry on by the disembodied voice of Winston Churchill. He uses quick thinking to escape, defeat Scheisse and knock her into her own trap.

Personally despicable?

Nazi, seductress and torturer.

Redeeming qualities?

The segment is a spoof of WWII-era British propaganda, and there is some inherent humour (and furry bait) in a literal foxy lady, but I'd argue the genre they're spoofing makes the intent more clear. We're not supposed to root for her, at least.

Verdict?

[tup]

    Stoker 

Who's the candidate?

An agent of a dystopian government, from "V is for Vagitus (The Cry of a Newborn Baby)".

What does he do?

When two Propogation Control agents, Lainey and Nezbit, capture an unapproved family (due to overpopulation, reproduction is only allowed by permit), Stoker shows up to claim it. You see, the baby is psychic, and the government has been experimenting on such for years. Stoker commands the robotic Nezbit to butcher the family, including the baby, so they can be taken to be reanimated for science, flat-out admitting that he doesn't consider them to be living beings. However, the baby is still alive despite being decapitated, and starts massacring Stoker's goons in revenge. Stoker orders the guy holding the head killed so it can be destroyed, but it simply fliws away from the gunfire abd uses its abilities to make Stoker's head explode.

Personally despicable?

Murders an entire family, including a baby, with intent to experiment on the child, and throws his goons' lives away to do it. He also puts a human face on the dystopian regime.

Redeeming qualities?

Absolutely none. Just a coldhearted agent of a nightmarish machine.

Verdict?

[tup]

    The Janitor 

Who's the candidate?

A school employee and paedophile, from "Y is for Youngbuck".

What does he do?

We first see the janitor perving on a bunch of young boys playing basketball. After they leave, he licks the sweat off of the benches they sat on. Squick. The janitor convinces one of the boys to go hunting with him, raping him after the kid kills a deer. Later, the boy confronts him and rips his head off with the dead deer's antlers.

Personally despicable?

Paedophile. 'Nuff said.

Redeeming qualities?

None. This short is very light on characterization, so all we know is that he likes hunting and fucking children.

Verdict?

[tup]

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#2109: Nov 1st 2019 at 7:06:07 AM

[tup] Trainer, Scheisse, Stoker, Janitor.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#2110: Nov 1st 2019 at 10:54:47 PM

[tup] Janitor, Schiesse and Stocker

EDIT: [tup] Dog Trainer too

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Nov 1st 2019 at 11:36:11 AM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#2111: Nov 1st 2019 at 11:34:42 PM

I think I found a good image to put on the Anime & Manga Hate Sink Subpage.

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/tumblr_m4b5fdjg811rwyy9so1_500.jpg

Edited by Shadao on Nov 1st 2019 at 11:35:13 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#2112: Nov 2nd 2019 at 12:09:50 AM

  • The ABCs of Death:
    • "D is for Dogfight": The unnamed trainer runs an organization where he kidnaps dogs. When their humans cone looking for them, he has them kidnapped too. He subjects both human and dog to Training from Hell before forcing them to fight to the death.
    • "H is for Hydro-Electric Diffusion": As a parody of WWII British propaganda films, this short has a loathsome Nazi in the form of Frau Scheisse. After seducing Ace Pilot Bertie the Bulldog, Scheisse has a small robot punch him in the groin to capture him. She then proceeds to subject Bertie to Electric Torture while slowly lowring him into electrified water to shock him to death.
    • "V is for Vagitus (The Cry of a Newborn Baby": Stoker is an agent of a dystopian government in a Bad Future where procreation without a permit is banned and psychics are subjected to genocide. When two of his agents capture a psychic family, Stoker has all of them killed with the intent to resurrect the baby for experimentation, flat admitting that he doesn't consider them to be people. When the baby reanimates and starts massacring his goons, Stoker orders the guy holding uts head gunned down in a desperate attemot to wipe out the child. Cold and ruthless, Stoker exists to put a hatable face on a nightmarish regime.
    • "Y us for Youngbuck": The unnamed Villain Protagonist is a school janitor and secret paedophile. After he pervs on some boys playing basketball, he licks the sweat from the bleachers with disgusting glee. Eventually convincing one of the boys to go hunting with him, the janitor rapes the kid after he kills a deer.

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#2113: Nov 2nd 2019 at 10:27:05 AM

[up][up] Gonna have to say [tdown] to the image. Those unfamiliar with Fullmetal Alchemist will not know what about this image represents the trope, and probably just think it is a funny picture. The image does nothing to show that the guy with glasses burning in hell/Shou Tucker has done anything particularly vile (even if fans know he has). What I am saying is, the picture does not provide the necessary context- for all the reader knows, Shou is a nameless extra burning because Rule of Funny.

In general, finding an image for this trope is kinda hard, because the point is authorial intent, and there is not much of a way to show that besides using a Show Within a Show and the in-universe audience reaction (hence the image on the main page).

Edited by MasterN on Nov 2nd 2019 at 10:31:41 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#2114: Nov 2nd 2019 at 5:45:06 PM

OK I got a candidate that I recently got approved as a Complete Monster as well as a minor character from the same work.

What's the Work?

The Edge of Sleep is a recently released Podcast staring Mark Fischbach as Dave, it follows Dave, a man who suffers from Parasomnia, which I can best describe as extreme sleepwalking combined with night terrors brought on by thing's he's seen recently. In the world, people suddenly start dying in their sleep and Dave, his coworker Mateo, his ex girlfriend Katie, and a nurse named Linda have to figure out what's going on while staying awake.

Who is Gus?

Gus is a friend of Katie and Dave. He was present at a party Katie invited Dave to. When Dave gets there everybody except Gus has already left. When Dave talks to Gus, he apparently forgot his name despite them meeting several times before. He explains that the party host, Randy, is pissed at Dave, presumably about whatever made Katie break up with Dave and forgets his name again despite Dave having just told him. When Dave finds Randy, who fell asleep and died, Gus refuses to help Dave take him to the hospital since he's a drug dealer who doesn't want to be arrested. Later when Katie calls Dave she says that Gus gave her something that she thought was MDMA but it was really Speed and she's freaking out as a result.

Any likable traits?

Nothing really, he tries to keep Dave away from Randy since Randy said he'll beat Dave up the next time he sees him but that's it, he's really just an unlikable stoner.

Who's the Trespasser?

The Trespasser is a Serial Rapist who's been kidnapping girls, raping them, and killing them with drug overdoses to hide his involvement. He's first seen in his van in the parking lot of the facility Mateo and Dave work as security guards at, trying to trick Dave into giving him money by pretending to be a veteran only for Mateo, who's an actual vet, to expose his lie and he then leaves after they question the sounds of a girl in the back of his van. After everybody starts dying he's seen looking over the now dead city with awe and mockingly telling the girl in her van that he mother is probably dead. He then steals a gun and kidnaps Katie. He attacks the hospital that Mateo, Dave and Linda are at, shooting Dave and capturing him. He straps Dave to a table, clearly intending to give him a slow painful death. Dave tells him a story from his childhood where he cut his stomach open with a knife in his sleep, after which the Trespasser invites him to "get some R&R" by coming with him as he "drives down the coast" after kidnapping more girls. However he first decides to castrate Dave in order to keep him away from Katie, mockingly saying he'll be as happy as a neutered dog. He's then stopped by Mateo who locks him up. As soon as this happens he starts pathetically begging for his life, claiming he has a family and dismissing the girls he hurt as "junkies." The group then agrees to strap him into an MRI to see what happens when a person dies in their sleep, and before dying he yells that Dave will suffer far worse than him due to the nightmares their encounter will give him.

Any likable traits?

Again none, he has a calm friendly attitude but it makes him come off as smug. He's friendly with Dave but subverts that with his attempt to castrate him and his final words to Dave.

Conclusion?

Two easy yeses.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#2116: Nov 3rd 2019 at 12:29:09 AM

[tup] Gus and Tresspasser.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#2117: Nov 3rd 2019 at 1:19:35 AM

I think the Image works fine. The fact He's specifically burning in hell shows how he's supposed to be someone your enjoying seeing Suffer

Things are really about to get Fun around here
GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#2118: Nov 3rd 2019 at 1:25:40 AM

Abstain on the image. However, it could help if we point out in the description that even the likes of Kimblee, Envy or Lust went to heaven.

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#2119: Nov 3rd 2019 at 9:05:53 AM

Abstain on the image. I am more inclined to bupkis subpages, though.

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#2120: Nov 3rd 2019 at 9:32:22 AM

Here’s my draft for John Thorpe:

  • ‘’Northanger Abbey’’: John Thorpe is James Morland’s friend and a boorish Gold Digger who seeks to marry Catherine Morland, mistakenly believing her to be a rich heiress. Desiring to have Catherine all to himself, Thorpe makes repeated attempts to sabotage her attempts to make friends with the Tilney family, making shameless lies to force her to spend time with him. Thorpe also lies to General Tilney about Catherine’s wealth to get him to drive up his own prospects. When this backfires with the General pushing Catherine towards his son Henry, Thorpe slanders Catherine to General Tilney by projecting his own situation onto Catherine’s family, prompting him to throw Catherine, who is staying with the Tilneys at this point, out of the house in the dead of night. A shameless liar who talks of nothing but carriages and horses and speaks with crude language, John Thorpe is the closest thing to a Big Bad in Jane Austen’s novels.

Edited by k410ren on Nov 3rd 2019 at 12:32:38 PM

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Brainulator9 Short-Term Projects herald from US Since: Aug, 2018 Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Short-Term Projects herald
#2121: Nov 3rd 2019 at 12:24:37 PM

Yeah, Hate Sink to me is a BUPKIS-level trope, with the main page at least being able to get said PKIS.

Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#2122: Nov 3rd 2019 at 6:36:13 PM

Plus, several images have been cut even though the caption elaborates on the context, because the image should stand on its own. If the caption is doing all the heavy lifting, then it is considered Just a Face and a Caption.

Any more votes for FINAGLC!Flowey?

Edited by MasterN on Nov 3rd 2019 at 6:38:43 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#2123: Nov 4th 2019 at 7:44:26 AM

Bring the pic to Image Pickin'; I think it could work if paired with a good caption.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#2124: Nov 4th 2019 at 9:08:31 AM

Ok. On an unrelated note, I would like to recommend the following quote as the page quote for The Bible.

The King's chief minister was Haman, a man who hated the Jews. Esther's uncle would not bow down to Haman. Haman was so angry that he plotted to have all the Jews killed, and he drew lots to decide on the date. The Persian word for lot was Purim. Anyone who went to see the King without permission was put to death, but Esther was brave enough to tell her husband of her religion. The King forgave her and Haman was put to death. The full story is read aloud at the synagogue. Every time Haman's name is mentioned the children stamp their feet, boo, hiss and shake rattles in an attempt to drown out the sound of his name.

BBC Bitesize Guide to Jewish Festivals, on the custom of Jeering at the mention of Haman's name on Purim.

Alternately, the following could work as an image.

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/1840ffff_750b_41ed_9bb3_8eb6cad3e302.jpg
"And when Haman saw that Mordecai would neither kneel nor prostrate himself before him, Haman became full of wrath."

Another image suggestion would be:

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/006_sodom_gomorrah.jpg
Lot went out to the mob locking the door behind him. ‘No,’ he shouted, ‘Don’t do this wicked thing. They are my guests.’ ‘Lot, you are a foreigner living in our city and now you want to play the judge,’ the angry men shouted. ‘We’ll treat you worse than we were going to treat them.’

Edited by SkyCat32 on Nov 4th 2019 at 12:26:24 PM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#2125: Nov 4th 2019 at 9:23:13 AM

Honestly was thinking on something more of the lines of Balaam beating his donkey, but this is okay. Should we also probably consider certain exceptions though? I know characters like Esau can't count because he was legitimately screwed over in his birthright, or Cain who was screwed over by God who accepted Abel's sacrifice instead of his.


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