Hate Sink cleanup

Chief.

Thanks for joining us, Jackie.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Oct 16th 2019 at 8:53:25 AM

Chief of police- but, just letting you know, you are supposed to describe the work first, so as to determine the general standard of hate-ability.

This is an objective trope, there is no standard of loathsomeness. That said, we generally do describe the work and how the character fits in the narrative.

chief of police.

Yes to Zynbel and Chief.

to Chief. Alright I now have 3 and you know what that means.

• Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice: Zynbel is a religious fanatic who believed that his wife, Galena, and daughter, Senua, were cursed when they were actually suffering from Psychosis. To appease his gods, Zynbel would burn his own wife alive when Senua was only five and would proceed to abuse Senua all her life until she eventually leave him. It was also heavily implied that he led the Northmen to attack his own village on the condition that they would spare him. While his fate remained unknown his influence on Senua proved to be so severe that it manifest into the Darkness that plagues Senua throughout her adventures.

Edited by G-Editor on Oct 15th 2019 at 11:31:30 PM

• Tokyo Gore Police: In order to privatize the Tokyo police department, its unnamed chief has an esteemed officer assassinated, killing the hitman when he's done. This ends up causing the assassin's son to become a Mad Scientist called the Key Man and create a horde of rampsging mutants known as Engineers to terrorize the city. The chief orders his police, including his deceased rival's daughter Rika, to kill any Ebgineers they find, despite many of them not working for the Key Man. When one of his officers is infected, the chief has the rest start massacring abybody who could possibly be an Ebgineer, sexually abusing a woman he keeps as a pet all the while. Rika arrives to atop the carnage abd avenge her father, so the chief proves his own hypocrisy by injecting himself with the Engineer serum to fight her.

Shadao, the chief is a massive Walking Spoiler, so I'd advise spoiling the whole thing on the work page at least.

New proposal, from Schindler's List.

Warning: This one's real dark.

Who's the candidate?

Amon Goeth, SS officer and commander of the Plaszow concentration camp.

What does he do?

While overseeing the camp's construction (done by Jewish slaves, of course), one of the labourers points out a structiral problem with a building. Goeth shoots her dead for contradictung his plans, then institutes the change anyways. After the camp is finished, Goeth gleefully administrates his little part of the Holocaust, regularly using the prisoners as target practice when he isn't just plain gassing them. A prisoner manages to escape, so Goeth personally butchers 25 in retaliation. Meanwhile, he has Helen Hirsch made his personal maid, gaining a lust for her. He sexually harasses her, but stops himself due to believing that raping a Jew us beneath hum. So he beats the shit out of her instead. After the end of the war, Goeth is tried and hanged for his crimes against humanity.

Personally despicable?

He's bad even by Nazi standards.

Redeeming qualities?

He seems to like Oskar Schindler, but only because Schindler is smart enough to know that acting like a pathetic, ego-stroking toady will get him to not look into his plan to save Jewish lives, and plays the role to a hilt. He does express some curiosoty when Schindler tells him about the virtues of kindness, trying it out by letting a prisoner live when he messes up cleaning, but he decides it's nit for him and kills the boy anyways.

Verdict?

Probably the easiest keep I've done on this thread.

Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Oct 17th 2019 at 6:42:53 AM

Amon

Goeth. Apparently, he was worse in real life.

This reminds me of my effortpost for Haman.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Oct 17th 2019 at 12:41:41 PM

It was a case of Historical Villain Downgrade since Spielberg thought the real Amon was too evil to be believable for audiences.

In case, Amon does get an easy since he serves as a complete contrast to the Punch-Clock Villain (then-turned hero) Oskar Schindler. And any moment where Amon seems to have a Pet the Dog are completely subverted almost immediately.

Amon Goeth might be the easiest keep we've had in a while. And I only recently saw Schindler's List. Easy to him.

amon

Amon Goeth. That isn’t to say Ralph Fiennes didn’t do an excellent job with him.

Amon Goeth

• Schindler's List: Amon Goeth is a monstrous SS officer sent to run the Plaszow concentration camp. Forcing Jewish prisoners to build the facilitoes, Goeth kills one for pointing out a design flaw and then implements the changes she suggested. After the camp is finished, Goeth enthusoastically implements the Final Solution, laughing at parents whose children he gassed and using the prisoners as target practice. He also forces Helen Hirsch to become his personal maid, beating her when he starts lusting after her and only not raping her because he feels fprcing himself on a Jew is beneath him. When Oskar Schindler tries to convince Goeth to feel the joy of kindness to others, he tries to let a servant boy off on a mistake before deciding that Evil Feels Good and killing him, proving that he's a sociopath to the very core.

The draft is not bad on its own (save for grammatical errors), but sometimes I feel some of them feel like rewrites of their Complete Monster entries. Case in point:

• Complete Monster: SS officer Amon Goeth is in charge of liquidating the Krakow Jewish ghetto, and is later in charge of the Plaszow concentration camp. When a Jewish forewoman protests the structure they are building is unsound, Goeth has her killed for raising her opinion, only to follow her instruction to improve the structure. Tormenting his prisoners for his amusement, Goeth shoots them from his quarters with a sniper rifle for sport; kills 25 in anger for one escaping; and laughs at the crying parents of children he sends off to the gas chambers. Subverting any chance at humanity he is given, when Oskar Schindler tries to convince him to show mercy, Goeth briefly considers sparing a Jewish boy who failed to clean spots from his bathtub before killing him; and finding himself attracted to a Jewish woman, decides to blame her for his own lust and savagely beats her.

Hate Sink should not be a weasel way to put in CM entries on non-YMMV page. Ideally, Hate Sink should be shorter, emphasizing on why this particular character is singled out by the author as the punching bag for the audience. And in Schindler's List, where you have murderous Nazis and cold-hearted Nazis everywhere (except Schindler), Amon's entry should not be a list of all his evil deeds but rather his overall personality that makes him vile even by Nazi standards.

My suggestion: Perhaps simplify his deeds to an overall personality that includes Hypocrite, For the Evulz, and Rape Is a Special Kind of Evil. Then explain why Spielberg's fictional Hope Spot/Pet the Dog moments for Amon are there to reinforce why Amon cannot be redeemed and should be despised for that.

Edited by Shadao on Oct 17th 2019 at 10:32:00 AM

Alright, let's try this:

• Schindler's List: Amon Goeth is a one-man cipher for the horrors of Nazism and the Holocaust. As commander of the Plaszow concentration camp, he enslaves the Jewish prisoners until he can gwt no more labour from them, after which they're sent to the gas chambers. Many don't even make it that far, being either killed as an example or Goeth's own amusement. Despite genuonely believing that Jews are not human, Goeth develops a lust for his maid Helen Hirsch, very nearly raping her until he decides such a victim would be beneath him. Instead, he beats her senseless. Oskar Schindler initially pretends to be a sycophant to flatter Goeth into not looking into his anti-Nazi activities, but evebtually feels compelled to speak up and try to convince the man to be more merciful. Goeth does attemot this, initially allowing a boy he enslaved to live despite an error, but ultimately decides that kindness is boring and kills the boy.

I brought up the specific crimes I did because they're important to the plot and Goeth's characterization. As for the other Nazis? There probably are other HS's amomg them, but it's been a few years since I saw the film.

I'll add this to the drafts too and let you guys decide which you wanna go with.

Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Oct 17th 2019 at 11:57:05 AM

These are the grammar correction:

• Schindler's List: Amon Goeth is a one-man cipher for the horrors of Nazism and the Holocaust. As commander of the Plaszow concentration camp, he enslaves the Jewish prisoners until he can get no more labor from them, after which they're sent to the gas chambers. Many don't even make it that far, being either killed as an example or Goeth's own amusement. Despite genuinely believing that Jews are not human, Goeth develops a lust for his maid Helen Hirsch, very nearly raping her until he decides such a victim would be beneath him. Instead, he beats her senseless. Oskar Schindler initially pretends to be a sycophant to flatter Goeth into not looking into his anti-Nazi activities, but eventually feels compelled to speak up and try to convince the man to be more merciful. Goeth does attempt this, initially allowing a boy he enslaved to live despite an error, but ultimately decides that kindness is boring and kills the boy.

• Schindler's List: Amon Goeth is a monstrous SS officer sent to run the Plaszow concentration camp. Forcing Jewish prisoners to build the facilities, Goeth kills one for pointing out a design flaw and then implements the changes she suggested. After the camp is finished, Goeth enthusiastically implements the Final Solution, laughing at parents whose children he gassed and using the prisoners as target practice. He also forces Helen Hirsch to become his personal maid, beating her when he starts lusting after her and only not raping her because he feels forcing himself on a Jew is beneath him. When Oskar Schindler tries to convince Goeth to feel the joy of kindness to others, he tries to let a servant boy off on a mistake before deciding that Evil Feels Good and killing him, proving that he's a sociopath to the very core.

As for which one to keep for now, I think there should be a vote. I do like the first sentence for the top draft since it signifies Amon Goeth as the Sink for Hate. Tone like that should be used more often and hopefully distinguish Hate Sink from Complete Monster.

As I wrote both, I'll abstain.

New proposal, from Pulp Fiction.

Who's the candidate?

Zed and Maynard, two brothers.

What do they do?

During a conflict between boxer Butch Coolidge and crime boss Marsellus Wallace, the two end up in Maynard's pawn shop. He nanages to knock them both out and lock them in his basement, calling Zed over. You see, the two are sadists who love nothing more than kidnapping and raping random men. They even have a long-term Sex Slave known only as "the Gimp." Having the Gimp watch Butch, the duo rape Marsellus. Butch manages to escape, but has a momemt of conscience and goes to free his nemesis. The two men fight back against their captors, killing Maynard with a katana and shooting Zed in the dick with a shotgun. Marsellus then notifies Zed that he will be tortured to death shortly, before allowing Butch to leave LA alive as gratitude for saving him.

Personally despicable?

They're serial rapists.

Redeeming qualities?

None. Despite being brothers, they don't even really show any care for each other that I recall.

Verdict?

Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Oct 18th 2019 at 3:56:47 AM

Maynard and Zed.

As for entries, I like the first one better. Hate Sink entries borrowing from the structure of Complete Monster entries is not a bad thing, but a Hate Sink entry has to place the emphasis on their despicable traits and actions as opposed to just their evil ones (although in some cases, they can overlap).

Speaking of cases where evil and loathsomeness overlap, I shall return in a bit with an effortpost for the Night Huntress duo from 2 days ago.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Oct 18th 2019 at 8:46:42 AM

• When Good Ghouls Go Bad: Coach Michael Kankel is pretty much the source of all the problems in the movie. He fear mongering and bullying tactics to keep Walker Falls from celebrating Halloween for twenty years, which in turn took a toll on the towns economy. He did so by spreading an Urban Legend of the curse of Curtis Danko, convincing everyone that Curtis was pure evil and making himself into a new pillar of the community. It's soon revealed as a kid, he was the one who indadvertedly killed Curtis by locking him in a kiln as a prank; when he discovers Curtis's death, not only did he not feel any remorse, he uses said death to fabricate the urban legend in the first place. The reason why he did this was because he was jealous that Curtis' statue was gonna win an art contest and so that he could play hero. He claims that he is doing this to honour his father's legacy, but even Kankel's own father is disgusted at his son's actions when he finds out.
• In the film adaptation Let the Right One In and its Americanized adaptation Let Me In: Jonny (or Kenny as he's called in Let Me In) and his older brother Jimmy lack their redeeming qualities from the original novel. Jonny/Kenny relentlessly bullies Oskar/Owen in violently humiliating ways, before threatening to drown him in a frozen pond. Jimmy is an even bigger sadist than his brother, and seen bullying him too. When Oskar/Owen stands up for himself, they later gang up on him in retaliation. Jimmy makes a "bet" with him about holding his breath underwater for three minutes, and either getting his cheek cut open, or his eye cut out.
• Life Is Strange: Mark Jefferson appears to be a charming and friendly teacher but when revealed to be ultimate villain of the game, in addition to being the mastermind behind the Dark Room - which entail the drugging, kidnapping, torturing and occasional murder of girls for the sake of his art - he is also an emotional manipulator; using his students admiration of him to form close but false friendships with them; taking advantage of Nathan's need for a father figure for his operations, later killing Nathan to provide himself a scapegoat; tries to subtly goad his previous victim Kate into killing herself in the midst of her bullying. While most of the other antagonistic characters are shown to have depths and are not entirely bad people, when Jefferson's true colours are revealed, he's shown to be a dark, narcissistic sadist, with no care or empathy for anyone around him.

Maynard and Zed. I seem to remember these guys were once Complete Monsters before the cleanup.

Can we also add Saeros' entry to The Children of Húrin since he appears in that work (The Children of Húrin is an expansion of Chapter 21 of The Silmarillion)?

Draft:

• The Children of Húrin: Saeros is a racist Elf in King Thingol's court who resented the presence of Turin as a ward of Thingol. One evening Saeros made insulting remarks about Turin's people, causing Turin to injure Saeros. The next morning, Saeros attempted to murder Turin over the last night's events, provoking Turin into stripping him and accidentally killing him by running him off a cliff. When Thingol heard of what Saeros had done, he pardoned Turin, while it was stated that Saeros would be held in Mandos, the land of the dead, for a long time due to his misdeeds.

I'd like to discuss this character from RWBY. He actually had a Hate Sink entry on his character page, but it was removed for the character not being effort posted.

Who is Jacques Schnee? What does he do?

Jacques is frequently alluded to early on in the series. Weiss, one of Jacques daughters and one of the main titular protagonists of the show, reveals that Jacques is the main reason the Schnee Dust Company has such a bad reputation. In a later episode, Jacques cuts Weiss off from the family fortune for continuously refusing to answer his calls. Jacques makes his first full appearance in Volume 4, where he forces Weiss to sing for good PR. Later on, during the charity fund, a frustrated Weiss calls out all the guests after one woman makes a rather insensitive comment about the fall of Vale. Jacques tries to restrain Weiss, but this triggers Weiss to accidentally unleash her Semblance and almost kill one of the guests. Later, Jacques harshly scolds Weiss for making the Schnee name look bad. Weiss retorts by pointing out that he only married in the family, to which Jacques promptly slaps her. Jacques then disinherits her from the Schnee name and detains her in the Schnee household. Luckily, Weiss is able to escape from Jacques with the help of the Schnee butler, Klein Sieben.

What makes Jacques personally despicable?

Jacques is an abusive Control Freak who only cares about himself, his company, and his public image. He's also a horrible father. As mentioned above, he treats Weiss like trash, even trying to stop her from getting a drink on her own during the charity fund. His running of the SDC is also awful. Under his leadership they use Faunus for labor, making Jacques partially responsible for the rise of the White Fang.

Evil Is Cool traits? Complexity? Freudian Excuse?

Whereas even fellow Hate Sinks Cinder and Adam have something going for them in the Evil Is Cool category, Jacques is just an ordinary man with nothing particularly cool about him. As for complexity, there's nothing there. He cares nothing for Weiss, and during his argument with her after the charity fund incident he flat-out states that he doesn't care about her dreams or ambitions. As for Freudian Excuse, there's also nothing there. His main motive is nothing more than greed.

Verdict? Another solid .

Edited by Connor2107 on Oct 18th 2019 at 8:41:47 AM

Jacques.

Jaques (who has a CM entry in Ruby and Nora), brothers, and first entry.