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Hate Sink cleanup

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The main concern of a Hate Sink is whether the narrative treats the character as someone intended to be despised.

The character in question must actually display detestable qualities, and be hated by other characters at least, or treated by the narrative like someone you are supposed to hate. The author's declared intent cements an example, but is not needed if the narrative itself treats the character as someone who is supposed to be hated.

A Hate Sink may have charismatic traits, a troubled past, or complexity, but in order for this trope to be in effect, such traits must be de-emphasized by the narrative in favour of their detestable traits.

Please note that we do not use Effort Posts.

Edited by gjjones on Dec 3rd 2020 at 7:43:25 AM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#1901: Oct 14th 2019 at 12:10:19 PM

Very well, @Lightysnake. I will delete the Luke entry, and EP the real candidate.

Here is Hopkins.

Edited by MasterN on Oct 14th 2019 at 5:48:35 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#1902: Oct 14th 2019 at 12:11:31 PM

Link

Edited by papyru30 on Oct 14th 2019 at 1:11:40 PM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#1903: Oct 14th 2019 at 12:20:33 PM

Apparently you said the comic was ongoing, which makes me apprehensive because of the possibility that he will turn out to be sympathetic later on, but for now Kim gets a [tup].

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#1904: Oct 14th 2019 at 12:25:52 PM

It is ongoing, I feel fairly confident that he'll continue to count. BTW I forgot to post the unapproved examples from the comic's page, here they are.

  • Hate Sink: A few characters qualify as this.
    • Sang-Chul Kim. He constantly antagonizes Yeong-Gi, acts creepily around Shin-Ae, and he's a sexual predator.
    • Yui Hirahara. She initially treats Shin-Ae as a possible baby factory, and subsequently tries to manipulate her and Kousuke into a relationship neither of them want. She then exploits Shin-Ae's position to make her work for the company, under a man who tried to take advantage of her twice, has been supplying that same man with the means to do so, and is implied to be an abusive parent towards Yeong-Gi.
    • Subverted with Meg. Her extremely rude and condescending attitude towards Shin-Ae makes her seem like this at first... and then the party arc happens. When Meg sees the drug vial that Sang-Chul dropped, she immediatley goes to warn Yeong-Gi and Kousuke that Shin-Ae may be in danger. Not only that, but she joins the Hirahara brothers in searching for the drugged Shin-Ae after learning that Sang-Chul had taken her from the ballroom. Despite initially appearing as such, Meg's actions during her second appearance demonstrate that she is definitely not written to be unlikeable.

Also if we don't allow subversions, should the entry for Adam Taurus be cut since the entry itself says that his role as a Hate Sink is subverted by his last moments?

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#1905: Oct 14th 2019 at 12:58:55 PM

Yes. Cut it.

Also, thank you for helping me with Dario. Here is his finished writeup:

  • Lunarosse: The Illusion Master, really Dr. Dario Naumov, is the one who tricked the Anti Villains Corlia and Yliandra into waging war on each other. He is the psychologist of the real life Corlia/Yliandra who grew to hate her because she didn't reciprocate his feelings towards her and because he hated the small role she gave him in her story. This causes him to start wreaking havoc on the titular world of Lunarosse, the dream world Corlia made, in a spiteful attempt to hurt Corlia and Yliandra. He creates three avatars- Zevahn, Bellehan, and Naamari- to manipulate both sides of the war. He uses Noel's unrequited love for Channing to create the evil Gerard, and then uses him to fake Naamari's death to reignite war, then has him pin the murder on and repeatedly attack his friends, and at one point psychologically tortures the heroes with images of their friends insulting them, including insulting Noel for being gay, before forcing the heroes to kill Noel near the end. He also demonstrates his pettiness by blasting a soldier just for making a stupid comment and having billionaire Escobar killed when he wanted to end their partnership. When his plans are revealed, he decides to destroy the whole world and rebuild it the way he wants it to be. A petty manipulator who wants to destroy Lunarosse out of pure selfishness, Dario Naumov contrasts Corlia and Yliandra with his lack of sympathetic qualities.

Edited by MasterN on Oct 15th 2019 at 10:26:28 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#1906: Oct 14th 2019 at 6:01:31 PM

Alright so I finished playing this game Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice and I was considering posting Zynbel in the CM thread. However after going over him with lighty who says that he doesn’t count, I thought that I would at least post him here. Now let’s talk about the game.

What’s The Work?

Hellblade is a Dark Fantasy action-adventure video game developed independently by Ninja Theory. The premise revolves around Senua, a warrior from the 8th century suffering, traveling to Helheim to rescue her dead lover’s soul from the goddess Hela.

She also suffers from psychosis, which takes the form of a curse haunting her through voices in her head caused by “Furies” and the “Darkness” the latter of which is a representation of the abuse she suffered at the hands of her father Zynbel.

Who Is He? What Has He Done?

Zynbel is a druid who was devoutly religious to his beliefs and as such when his wife Galena and daughter Senua suffered from psychosis, he believed that they were cursed and would inflict horrific atrocities on both of them to “rid” them of their curse and appease the gods he worships.

He would start with his wife Galena whom he had burned alive at the stake while Senua was only five, a memory so traumatic, that Senua believed that her mother died of her own accord instead and became a horrifically abusive father towards Senua performing rituals on her locking her inside the house in a pit for days, forbade her to socialize with others, throw outbursts at her, and emotionally manipulate her into staying his with.

Eventually Senua, with the help of her lover Dillion, would stand up to Zynbel and attempt to leave him, only for Zynbel to hit her to the ground. However Senua was no longer afraid of Zynbel and followed through with leaving him.

As Senua was gone it was heavily implied that Zynbel made a deal with the Northmen leading to his village and allowing them to ransack the village and in return the Northmen would release him.

This led to everyone getting killed in the village, including Dillion, while the fate of Zynbel remains unknown, but his influence of Senua would remain manifesting as the Darkness, a dark and overwhelming inner voice that degrades Senua and attempts to emotionally manipulate her

Is He Likable? Is He Sympathetic?

His reasons for all the atrocities he inflicted on Senua and Galena was that he believe that they were cursed and wanted to get rid of their curse. However Senua calls Zynbel out on his excuses claiming that he just a deluded fanatic who only cared about himself.

It’s not confirmed wether Zynbel wanted to help Senua or was only looking out for himself, but it is made clear that what ever Zynbel’s reasons, it does not excuse Zynbel cruel and horrific treatment on his family.

Even his claims to protect the village from Senua’s curse falls flat as it was strongly implied that he led the Northmen to attack and in return they won’t kill him. So yeah no sympathy there and he’s never been given any likable nor Evil Is Cool qualities.

What Makes Him So Hatable?

What makes him so hatable is his horrific treatment towards his family having his own wife burned alive while Senua was only five and subjecting the poor girl to his cruel abuse under his deluded pretense that he’s “saving” her.

His abuse on Senua was so bad that it basically manifests as the darkness that plagues her mind throughout the game where strongly implying that it wasn’t her psychosis that made her such a Broken Bird but rather the years of horrific abuse inflicted by her own father.

Final Verdict

I’ll leave it to you guys

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#1908: Oct 14th 2019 at 7:21:58 PM

There very much can be Aversions, Played With ECT. Unlike CM or MB.

For example having a Sadist Teacher who seems to just be there to be a Jackass. But later is shown to have much more depth then that.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#1909: Oct 14th 2019 at 8:03:39 PM

Here's Sang Chul

  • I Love Yoo: Sang Chul Kim is the spoiled son of an associate of the Hirahara Corporation. He's a loudmouthed and lazy Jerkass who antagonizes others and insults them both too their face and behind their backs. During the formal hosted by his father, he is enlisted by Yui Hirahara to sexually assault Shin Ae, which he nearly does. He's also all but confirmed to be the masked man who drugged Shin Ae's drink near the beginning of the comic.

Edited by papyru30 on Oct 15th 2019 at 12:59:53 PM

Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#1910: Oct 14th 2019 at 10:24:22 PM

In regards with the Played With aspect of Hate Sink, here's my stance:

No Aversion or Inversion. By default, anyone who is not a Hate Sink is an aversion or inversion (which would be akin to Creator's Pet).

Subversions, Downplayed, or Zig-Zagged examples should only be used for special circumstances (and these must require EP in my opinion).

Severus Snape is a good example of that. JK Rowling has stated on record that Snape was based on her least favorite teacher and does everything in her writing to make him so unlikeable and nasty until the eleventh hour at the final book where his true allegiances were revealed. Because of this last minute revelation, Snape is not a straight example of Hate Sink yet at the same time cannot be removed from the category due to how he was portrayed for the majority of the series.

Edited by Shadao on Oct 14th 2019 at 10:24:43 AM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#1911: Oct 15th 2019 at 10:25:59 AM

[up]...you make a good point.

If anyone else wants to vote on Colonel Hopkins (need one more vote), here is the EP I made of him.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#1912: Oct 15th 2019 at 12:02:46 PM

I agree, this isn't a YMMV trope like Magnificent Bastard or Complete Monster so I feel like there can be some wiggle room on that since Subversions and Downplayed examples can happen to almost any normal trope.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#1913: Oct 15th 2019 at 4:47:29 PM

[tup] Zynbel.

Special thanks to Lighty for weighing in on the candidates, even if at least one of them turned out to be a bust.

When I said that you weren't meant to take Esau's side, I meant that I wasn't entirely sure he qualified as a Hate Sink based on the narrative itself, but at the very least was under the impression that he wasn't meant to be rooted for. Whether this makes him a Designated Villain or not really depends on which Word of Dante you subscribe to, and that discussion is beyond the scope of this thread, IMHO.

As for Sodom, even just going by narrative alone, the fact that they intend to rape the houseguests is enough for me to believe that they were intended to be hated, (although I may not have explicitly stated as such in the effortpost).

I would like to see someone make a case for Lot himself, actually. If I recall correctly, he isn't looked upon kindly by commentators for almost allowing his daughters to be raped.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#1914: Oct 15th 2019 at 4:51:58 PM

The scriptures outright call Lot a righteous man. Even despite of trying to sell his own daughters out.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#1915: Oct 15th 2019 at 4:54:26 PM

You can't make a case for Lot, because the work is so intrinsically on his side. Lot is the one good guy in Sodom. He's made clear to be a good person, and the whole "have my daughters" is straight up Values Dissonance when guest right was so sacred it was better to sacrifice one's daughters than allow one's guests to be violated.

I mean, maybe 'The people of Sodom and Gomorrah?' Maybe? I'm not sure how groups work here.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#1916: Oct 15th 2019 at 5:03:59 PM

I guess Lot is out of the question, then.

As for large groups of people, we decided that due to this being an Author Intent trope, groups could qualify as long as they fit the bill, IIRC.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#1917: Oct 15th 2019 at 5:34:06 PM

Okay, so for Judas...there are a few things. The Gospel of Mark is considered the earliest of the gospels and his motivations for betraying Jesus weren't fully developed. Later gospels give the thirty pieces as his motivation. Or that he was possessed by Satan. The exact role Judas played in the gospels are also kind of skewered. On the one hand, many have agreed that Judas's betrayal led to the salvation of humanity in Christian theology. Oppositely, Gnostics had referred to him as the greatest of the apostles for having triggered the events leading to humanity's salvation. Judas had also been used as a justification for Christian antisemitism...which is not good.

Overall, could be an arguable downplayed example, but at the same time, Iscariot feels a little too complicated to call a straight HS.

Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#1918: Oct 15th 2019 at 6:10:27 PM

[tup] Colonel Hopkins

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#1919: Oct 15th 2019 at 6:12:41 PM

I am not sure what the tally is for the Sodomites, so I'm putting off any possible writeups until I know what the consensus is.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#1920: Oct 15th 2019 at 6:18:16 PM

[tup] the Sodomites

Things are really about to get Fun around here
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#1921: Oct 15th 2019 at 7:59:51 PM

I'm gonna count Lightysnake and Master N as abstaining, but otherwise, I have 4 [tup] otherwise, so here is the writeup.

  • Book of Genesis: The Inhabitants of Sodom propagate a culture of greed, selfishness, and stinginess, having enacted laws prohibiting any acts of charity or hospitality. Upon learning that Lot has invited guests into his home, the hostile Sodomites demand that the men be brought out to be raped as punishment for daring to expect hospitality from them. When Lot attempts to convince the Sodomites to take his daughters instead, the Sodomites mob Lot's house, attempt to break down the door, and, despite being struck blind, try in vain to attack Lot and his family before being eliminated in a storm of sulphur and flame. A sadistic, putrid populace, the Sodomites' disregard for others on a cultural level is often used as a cautionary tale on the importance of treating others with respect.

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#1922: Oct 15th 2019 at 8:18:14 PM

Yes to the Sodomites, nay to Essau and yes to Hopkins.

Edited by Klavice on Oct 15th 2019 at 8:20:19 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#1923: Oct 15th 2019 at 8:21:25 PM

Any more votes for Zynbel so far I only have two

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#1924: Oct 16th 2019 at 4:50:47 AM

New proposal, from Tokyo Gore Police.

Who's the candidate?

Tokyo's unnamed chief of police.

What does he do?

At first the chief seems like a fatherly figure, having taken Rika in after her father was assassinated, though he is shown to keep a woman with no arms or legs as a pet. However, halfway through the movie he's revealed to have ordered the assassination so he could privatize the police force, indirectly causing the Engineer ranpage when he eliminates the hitman he hored to do it and inspiring the man's son to seek revenge via mad science. After ome of his men is turned into an Engineer, the chief orders his men to massacre anybody who might be associated with them, forcing his pet human to give him head while he gleefully watches. When Rika confromts the chief, he decides to kill her, injecting himself with the Engineer serum to do so. However, Rika manages to decapitate him in the ensuing duel.

Personally despicable?

Corrupt, genocidal and owns a sex slave.

Redeeming qualities?

His hatred of Engineers may seem reasonable out of context, as they are mutants who grow weapons after being hurt, but they're pretty explicitly shown to not be Always Chaotic Evil, and he's proved to be a giant hypocrite when he makes himself into one.

Verdict?

[tup]

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#1925: Oct 16th 2019 at 5:24:17 AM

[tup] Chief of Police

It's Spooky Month!

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