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Hate Sink cleanup

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In order to properly evaluate a Hate Sink candidate, the following questions must be answered.

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What is the work?

State the work and which medium it is a part of, as well as what the work is about.

Who is the character, and what do they do?

State who the character is, and what courses of action they take.

What makes them personally despicable?

State the specific reasons they are despicable, such as petty behaviour and personal villainy.

Evil Is Cool traits? Complexity? Freudian Excuse?

State whether or not the character has any traits which get in the way of them being despicable, and if so, whether said traits are de-emphasised in favour of their despicable behaviour.


State whether or not you believe the criteria are met.

In order for this trope to be in effect, the character in question must actually display detestable qualities, and be hated by other characters at least, or treated by the narrative like someone you are supposed to hate. The author’s declared intent cements an example, but is not needed if the narrative itself treats the character as someone who is supposed to be hated.

Haman the Agagite, for instance, displays qualities of ego, bigotry, and pettiness; additionally, there is a custom of jeering at his name’s mere mention. It goes without saying, according to this thread, that Haman was intended to be despised by the audience. Being a Draco in Leather Pants, like Draco Malfoy, or a character people Love to Hate, like Joffrey Baratheon, doesn’t preclude being a Hate Sink; being a Complete Monster, like Haman, certainly doesn't preclude this trope either.

The main concern is whether the narrative treats the character as someone intended to be despised.

With regards to this trope, actions still generally speak louder than words. The format of editing which brings up characters who don't fit the bill, doesn't generally go into enough detail with regards to what makes these characters loathsome.

The entries for this trope should focus on who does qualify, not the characters who do not.

Admittedly, this trope is less complex, but, because a Hate Sink carries out loathsome actions the same way a Complete Monster carries out evil actions, and a Magnificent Bastard carries out clever actions, it is ostensibly necessary to write these entries with a similar structure, albeit usually with a shorter paragraph.

Edited by gjjones on May 28th 2019 at 5:46:22 AM

Oct 10th 2019 at 1:39:52 PM

He is pretty cool and Laughably Evil, but he is also clearly meant to be despised, so [tup] phantom.

Why controversial, though? He seems like a pretty cut-and-dry case to me. And also, are we allowed to do blanket votes (ie everyone I missed, anyone I missed, All the Rest)? We banned them on the CM thread.

Oh, and [tup] for Jack.

Edited by MasterN on Oct 10th 2019 at 3:00:35 AM

Oct 10th 2019 at 5:07:49 PM

Anyone else for Ser Willem Bootle?

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
DemonDuckofDoom Keep away from Pumpkinhead from Some Pond in Hell Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Keep away from Pumpkinhead
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from The Zenith Theater Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
The Draftsman of Doom
Oct 10th 2019 at 6:17:05 PM

We haven't been so stringent on blanket votes, but it depends on what everyone thinks is appropriate.

I personally can do without them.

Anyone else want to weigh in?

Whoever did this is trying to control us, and it might be a game to him, but to us it's life or death!
Oct 10th 2019 at 6:54:28 PM

I abstain.

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Shadao Surprised Satoshi
Surprised Satoshi
Oct 10th 2019 at 7:52:57 PM

Hmmm, checking into the drafts, I find this example to be a huge wall of text, even longer than some of the CM entries I've read. I'm not familiar with this franchise, but I wonder if it can be cut down to size.

  • Puella Magi Madoka Magica: The seemingly harmless Kyubey, actually an alien Hive Mind that calls itself the Incubators, is the Overarching Villain of the series behind every individual Big Bad. An entity of unknown origin, Kyubey seeks to save the universe from impending heat death, but is willing to make whatever sacrifice it feels is necessary. To this end, Kyubey comes to Earth in search of energy, and finds it in the form of humanity. Kyubey thus establishes the Magical Girl system, in which it manipulates females into making contracts with it, granting them magical powers to fight creatures called witches, and any one wish they desire. What Kyubey doesn't say is that their wish is designed to backfire and ruin their lives in some way, and that their soul will darken until they themselves are turned into witches. Since humanity's beginnings, Kyubey has used this system to turn innocent girls into Child Soldiers who undergo psychological torture and eventually become mass-murdering monsters, in order to use humanity's despair as an energy source for the universe. In the main series, Kyubey makes a contract with Homura Akemi, a shy girl desperate to save Madoka Kaname, and grants her Time Travel powers, intending to use her tampering to transform Madoka into the most powerful witch of them all, and trying to bring their friends to despair to aid the process. In the timelines where it succeeds, it leaves humanity at her mercy while declaring that it no longer needs them. Within the last timeline, it manipulates Sayaka Miki into becoming a witch, forcing Kyoko Sakura to Mercy Kill her. Whenever Kyubey is confronted about their atrocities, they always resort to Victim Blaming to dodge responsibility. Even after being thwarted by Madoka, they refuse to give up. In Rebellion, Kyubey rejects Goddess Madoka's new, humane system, intending to restore the witch one because it is more efficient. Kyubey rebels against Madoka through an experiment to turn the lonely Homura into an unborn witch, using her to lure Madoka into a trap, and succeeding in transforming her into a demon that proceeds to overthrow Madoka. Finally, when this begins to backfire and the demon turns on them, they attempt to escape again. Despite having a noble goal, Kyubey mainly cares for self-benefit. Utterly sociopathic and stoic to the point of deriding individuality and emotion as diseases to be purged, Kyubey is completely uncaring of how many people, species, and planets are destroyed in the pursuit of their mission, and stands out as the series' only truly unsympathetic villain.

Here's the Sink: Hate Sink Drafts | Hate Sink Dates | Hate Sink To Do Lists | Pending Write-Ups
DemonDuckofDoom Keep away from Pumpkinhead from Some Pond in Hell Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Keep away from Pumpkinhead
Oct 11th 2019 at 3:20:06 AM

New proposal, from The Afflicted.

Much like my Ruth Chandler EP, I'm not calling this a Halloween EP because it's Very Loosely Based on a True Story. Also, this one's super fucked up.

Who's the candidate?

Maggie, a fundamentalist Christian mother of four.

What does she do?

After killing her husband for leaving her, Maggie starts horrifically abusing her kids, regularly flying into a rage and beating them. She ends up forcong her son Bill to become a day labourer and pimping out her eldest daughter. After trying to force-feed her second daughter fattening food, she shoots her in the shoulder and locks her in the bathroom for weeks. Maggie eventually decides to remove the bullet herself, but the alcohol and pills she uses as anaesthetic kills her. The eldest daughter tries to escape, findong the dad's body im the process, so Maggie makes her remaining daighter and son beat her to a pulp before locking her in a closet for a week. After she dies of starvation in turn, Maggie starts pimping the youngest daughter, which causes her to snap and shoot the monster dead.

Personally despicable?

Murders her husband and then subjects her children to literally every category of abuse.

Redeeming qualities?

None. She's a religious wacko, but this is more fanaticism and emotional manipulation than anything else. She claims she was beaten and raped by her father, but as she only mentions this once when manipulatimg one of the daughters, she's probably lying. The bullet removal is not so much an act of mercy as it's a punishment for the daughter for begging to be let go.


[tup]. Expect one more EP from the film.

Ongoing Projects
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from The Zenith Theater Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
The Draftsman of Doom
Oct 11th 2019 at 4:26:07 AM

[tup] Maggie. I promise you, there is no shortage of ways a fanatic of any religion can desecrate God's name.

Whoever did this is trying to control us, and it might be a game to him, but to us it's life or death!
DemonDuckofDoom Keep away from Pumpkinhead from Some Pond in Hell Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Keep away from Pumpkinhead
Oct 11th 2019 at 5:34:31 AM

New proposal, from The Afflicted.

Who's the candidate?

Randy, a Dirty Old Man Maggie kmows.

What does he do?

When Maggie starts pimping out her eldest daughter, Randy is the only customer we see. He comes over regularly to rape the poor girl umtil she dies. Maggie offers Randy her even younger daughter, which he accepts gladly. He roughs her up when she resists, and tells her that he's gomna be over much more often. However, as this is what causes Grave to snap and kill Maggie, he doesn't get the chance, but is unfortunately a Karma Houdini due to leaving before the violence occurs.

Personally despicable?

His only charavter trait is his love of raping minors.

Redeeming qualities?

None. He doesn't get any screentime beyond his raping.



Ongoing Projects
Oct 11th 2019 at 9:44:25 AM

[tup]Maggie and Randy (is the latter supposed to be a Meaningful Name)?

Anyways, here is the other EP from the A Song of Ice and Fire fanfic Robb Returns (See page 74 of this thread for general details):

Who is the Candidate?

Edwyn Dickon (what a name) is the landlord of an inn in the North.

What Does He Do?

He cheats everyone under his roof in some way or another; in Dacey Surestone's case, he drives up the costs of her rent and sets unreasonable (and false) fees for medicine, insinuating that she can pay him back in other ways. While Tyrion offers to pay whatever sum she needs, Dickon tries to cheat a wealthy merchant, leers at his wife and offers to 'comfort' her. She responds with a jaw-breaking punch, which causes a Bar Brawl. When order is restored, it turns out that Dickon fell headfirst into a full bucket of slops and drowned. The room takes a moment of silence to contemplate what happened, And There Was Much Rejoicing. The merchant and his wife buy the inn and sort everyone's problems out; it turns out that he's stolen something from everyone there and is incapable of dealing honestly with anyone.

What makes him personally despicable?

He's a Fat Bastard who's an extortionist, thief, and lecher who tried (under Ser Willem Bootle's orders) to turn Dacey Surestone into a Sex Slave. And he serves bad food.

Freudian Excuse? Evil Is Cool? Mitigating Circumstances?



Keep. He's a dick in name and deed.

Edited by k410ren on Oct 11th 2019 at 12:51:08 PM

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Oct 11th 2019 at 1:08:17 PM

[tup] Maggie, Randy, and A Dick in Name.

Will try trimming my Kyubey entry.

Klavice As if! from Pacific Canada Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
As if!
Beast Credit to Trent Duncan from Ontario, Canada Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
Credit to Trent Duncan
Oct 11th 2019 at 3:47:37 PM

[tup]Maggie, Randy and Dick.

So this is gonna be the an example of me bringing up a CM to the HS board. I normally don't do this especially with examples I brought up, mainly because I felt it would be repetitive to talk about how horrible the same character twice. But I decided to start making some exceptions. This was one of my personal favourite CM proposals from 2015.

The reason I bring this up is because in the stories universe, the is the anniversary of the final night of the games events and possibly this villains death.

Life Is Strange is a episodic Magic Realism teen drama/mystery game focusing of Max Caulfield, who attends Blackwell Academy as a photography art student in her hometown of Arcadia Bay where she reunited with her childhood friend Chloe Price after saving her from getting shot by the games Decoy Antagonist Nathan Prescott. Max discovers she has the ability to rewind moments of time and later learns she can time travel through photographs to the time or place they were taken. As she reconnects with Chloe, she learns Chloe's friend/crush and popular Blackwell student Rachel Amber has gone missing, and Chloe is still trying to find her, with the mystery surrounding her disappearance being the central conflict of the game.

So let's stop beating around the bush and talk about the candidate and the games true main antagonist Mark Jefferson.

Who is Jefferson ? What does he do ?

Now every school has that teacher everyone likes and Jefferson is that teacher; he's a famous photography artist - known for his depiction of lost innocence and despair in his photos - but he is on a teaching tour that landed him in Blackwell Academy; he's young, hip, charming and manages to have close and trusting friendships with his students who idolize him. He is also a father figure to the rich and emotionally/mentally unstable student Nathan Prescott and has him take part in out of school activities...these activities include using Prescott's money to build and fund "The Dark Room", a photography studio/torture dungeon, as well as having Nathan drug and kidnap innocent girls to take to the Dark Room where Jefferson tortures and continues to drug these girls so he can photograph them and catch the moment they loose their innocence. Sometimes, Jefferson will kill when he thinks it's necessary.

As it turns out, Rachel's disappearance and (as later revealed) death as a result of these operations. Another student, a sweet religious girl named Kate Marsh has been suffering depression; she has been subjected to slut shamming by the students, and even victim blaming from her fundamentalist mother and aunt. As we later find out Kate is a Dark Room survivor, and vaguely remembers her assault. When she goes to Jefferson to help, he has a Kick the Dog moment where he suggests she's looking to attention. We find out after The Reveal, Jefferson was subtly goading her to suicide and depending on the players actions, Kate will either kill herself or Max can talk her down from the roof.

Max and Chloe soon discover the truth about the Dark Room and find photo albums of Jefferson's previous victims and intended victims, and find out another popular student Victoria Chase is next on Jefferson's list; and they learn the truth of Rachel's death. They are still under the impression that Nathan or his father are behind the Dark Room when they go to warn Victoria at a part (successfully warning her will result in her going to Jefferson for help, in turn getting her abducted and murdered). They receive a text from "Nathan" threatening to dispose of Rachel's remains unless they met him at the junkyard, where Jefferson ambushes them, drugging Max and shooting Chloe.

Max is taken to the Dark Room where she is tortured for some time by Jefferson, who reveals his dark and twisted nature to her and that he killed Nathan in advance to use as a scapegoat for his crimes. Max is eventually saved by Chloe's stepfather David Madsen, Blackwell's head of security, whose been doing Dark Room investigations of his own - although Max has to help David in the actual fight with Jefferson before subduing him. Max can reveal that Jefferson shot Chloe, and David will shoot Jefferson in retaliation...mind you its later rendered moot later when Max uses a photo to go back in time before the party to warn Chloe about Jefferson in advance, saving her and Victoria. Max and Chloe than go to David with the information they have and Jefferson will be arrested.

Of course there is the matter of a giant supernatural storm to contend with, which Max and Chloe conclude is the result of Max saving Chloe at the beginning of the game. Max can choose to go back in time and erase the entire events of the game by letting Chloe die, which in turn gets Nathan and Jefferson exposed and arrested. Or Max can let the storm pass through, which considering Jefferson is in holding at the time, his chances of survival are slim (Word of God is its up to the player to decide who survived the storm).

Evil Is Cool ?

That's where it gets kind of odd bally, as Jefferson is a genuinely threatening villain when his true colours are revealed and seems like a pretty cool and charismatic guy during his Bitch in Sheep's Clothing ac. Derek Powers is pretty believable in selling his performance as Jefferson. This doesn't really stop the fandom from hating Jefferson as the piece of human garbage he is, but basic fandom consensus boils down to "Jefferson as a person is horrible and reprehensible, but as a villain, he does a pretty good job."

Complexity or Authors Intent ?

To keep in plain, Jefferson has no humanizing or sympathetic qualities to his name. We have him listed as a Complete Monster for a reason. There's really nothing to cover here; he's a Mad Artist with a fetish for girls losing their innocence and falling into despair, and by torturing girls, he gets the results he wants. He makes it pretty clear he feels no empathy or remorse for his victims (in fact he fakes it at one point), sees Nathan as nothing but a pawn or tool, and is a predator taking advantage of his students trust and adoration of him.

As for authors intent ? This game gets pretty deconstructive when it comes to some character archetypes and even flips them on their head; Alpha Bitch Victoria ? Troubled Abuser David ? Frank the drug dealer ? All of them ultimately fall into Jerk with a Heart of Gold trope and Max can even develop positive relationships with them depending on their actions. Nathan Prescott even turns out to be sympathetic and has an Alas, Poor Villain sendoff. Jefferson is the only antagonist to not get any such depth, if anything he gets flipsided with his Bitch in Sheep's Clothing act; before his villain reveal, he was a cool, friendly and approachable teacher - after his villain reveal, he's a Nightmare Fetishist Serial Killer, with the game making it a point for us to want to seem him get his.

Edited by Beast on Oct 11th 2019 at 5:47:59 AM

Billy: Oh my God! Michael! I'm a huge fan! You're such a big influence on my- Michael: I'm sorry, your name is Loomis ?
Kylotrope The Good Doctor
The Good Doctor
Oct 11th 2019 at 4:35:37 PM

Easy[tup] to Jefferson.

Cut them Down and Make them Holy, forgiven on this ground solely
Oct 11th 2019 at 7:30:45 PM

[tup] to Jeffershit.

Funny thing, though- he already has an entry on the main page. That being said, it was written before the cleanup effort, so maybe we should take another look at it.

Also, the CM thread deemed Henry to be worse than Otis, rather than the other ay around, so I have re-written the entries to show this:

  • Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer: The killers serving as the Big Bad Duumvirate are both awful in their own ways:
    • The titular Henry displays absolutely no genuine empathy for those around him, simply sitting back and watching a man being murdered in the park. He kills several people before meeting Otis, and teams up with him to kill several more, including a whole family, snapping the young son's neck on camera. In the end, although he seems to show a redeeming quality by killing Otis to save Becky from being raped by him, he subverts this by killing Becky — who was being shaped up as a Morality Pet to him — and leaving her dismembered remains on the side of the road.
    • The aforementioned Otis, while not on the same level of depravity as Henry, proves to be plenty contemptible in his own right. He is Henry's former cellmate who's letting him stay with him as he passes through the town. Implied to have been in prison for rape, Otis is introduced perving on his own sister Becky while helping her escape her abusive husband. After witnessing Henry murder a couple of prostitutes, Otis joins him in the killing, though Henry has to regularly stop him from raping women. However, he pushes the envelope as far as he can without crossing the line, including molesting the mother of a family the two massacres. Eventually, Otis gives in to his urges and rapes Becky, only to be stabbed to death by her and Henry, who has gotten sick of his perversion getting in the way.

Edited by MasterN on Oct 11th 2019 at 7:44:52 AM

DemonDuckofDoom Keep away from Pumpkinhead from Some Pond in Hell Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Keep away from Pumpkinhead
Oct 11th 2019 at 10:08:55 PM

[tup] Dickon and Jefferson

  • The Afflicted:
    • After killing her husband for trying to leave her, Maggie descends into religious mania and starts abusing them. Aside from beating them in random rages, Maggie forces her son into manual labour and her eldest daughter into prostitution while Force Feeding her middle daughter in an attempt to make her fat. When said middle daughter resusts, Maggie shoots her in the shoulder before fatally poisoning her in an attempt to remove the bullet. After the eldest daughter escapes, Maggie makes her two remaining children beat her bloody before locking her in a closet to starve and pimping out her remaining girl.
    • Randy is a Dirty Old Man and the only customer we see Maggie procure in her chuld prostitution ring. He regularly rapes the daughter, being especially happy that she's a minor. After said daughter dies, Randy gladly goes to the youngest daughter, roughing her up some before raping her. When he finishes, he tells Maggie to beat her for resisting him.

Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Oct 12th 2019 at 12:10:42 PM

Ongoing Projects
Oct 12th 2019 at 6:32:58 AM

Drafts and tree for ‘’Robb Returns’’:

  • ‘’Robb Returns’’:
    • Ser Willem Bootle is a Riverlands knight known across three kingdoms as a ne’er-do-well who alienated all his neighbors. Looking to pay back a debt, Bootle travels to his cousin Lord Torgen Surestone’s keep, whereupon he poisons Lord Surestone and declares himself lord on account of his gender, then proceeds to seize the estate and evict Surestone’s daughter Dacey, the rightful heir. It’s revealed later that Bootle ordered an innkeeper named Edwyn Dickon to keep her at his inn and turn her into a prostitute to keep her from contesting his title. Upon his capture, Bootle declares that he should have been heir because Dacey is a bookish girl and remains defiant up until he attempts to swear his innocence on the Fist of Winter, which judges him guilty and strikes him down; his lies literally killed him.
    • The aforementioned Edwyn Dickon is an innkeeper who is incapable of dealing honestly with anyone. Ordered by Ser Willem Bootle to turn Dacey into a prostitute, Dickon drives up unreasonable prices for board and medicine, insinuating that there are “other ways” to pay back her debt. Dickon makes the mistake of trying to cheat a wealthy merchant and making advances on his wife; the wife punches him and he falls into a full bucket of slops and drowns, And There Was Much Rejoicing. After his death, it’s revealed that he stole something from everyone at the inn. In general, Edwyn Dickon was A Dick in Name and deed.

Edited by k410ren on Oct 12th 2019 at 9:38:53 AM

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Klavice As if! from Pacific Canada Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
As if!
Oct 12th 2019 at 11:45:10 AM

Yes to Jefferson.

Anyway, phantom's writeup.

  • Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney – Dual Destinies: The nameless spy known only by the moniker phantom, also known as Imposter Detective Fulbright is easily one of the most depraved villains in the series. His career starts when he places a bomb on the HAT-1 rocket and causes the astronaut on board to have a phobia of space. He then proceeds to murder Athena's, (then an 11 year old girl) mother and force the blame onto her. Then rookie Prosecutor Simon Blackquill takes the heat for the crime especially after seeing Athena covered head to toe in blood. Some time later and phantom kills the real Bobby Fulbright and assumes his identity. 7 years later and phantom sets up three more bombs in the space station as well as the rocket the new astronaut Clay Terran was going to enter with his idol. After a brilliant move by Director Yuri Cosmos to foil the plan, phantom proceeds to murder the young astronaut Terran and starts Apollo's revenge. Before the first trial can reach a verdict, phantom sets up another bomb in Courtroom number 4 where the trial is being held. This severely injures Apollo, and nearly kills everyone else in the courtroom as well. Phantom then casts suspicion on Athena through a forged piece of fingerprints on the lighter that he held, which basically turns Apollo against her. In the end he was petty, and more concerned about keeping his identity secret than anything else and willing to use any means necessary to do so.

Feel free to add it to HateSink.Ace Attorney too.

Edited by Klavice on Oct 12th 2019 at 10:10:26 AM

Pending Writeups, Drafts Discussion Dates
Oct 12th 2019 at 6:04:19 PM

Is it possible to add the entry for Saeros in The Silmarillion to The Children of Húrin since he appears in both books?

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Riley1sCool How... dramatic. from On the planet. In space. Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
How... dramatic.
Oct 12th 2019 at 6:21:07 PM

Jefferson's a great example of a villain being a great antagonist and a Hate Sink. [tup] To him.

Dwight, are you my Stalin?

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