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Hate Sink cleanup

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The main concern of a Hate Sink is whether the narrative treats the character as someone intended to be despised.

The character in question must actually display detestable qualities, and be hated by other characters at least, or treated by the narrative like someone you are supposed to hate. The author's declared intent cements an example, but is not needed if the narrative itself treats the character as someone who is supposed to be hated.

A Hate Sink may have charismatic traits, a troubled past, or complexity, but in order for this trope to be in effect, such traits must be de-emphasized by the narrative in favour of their detestable traits.

Please note that we do not use Effort Posts.

Edited by gjjones on Dec 3rd 2020 at 7:43:25 AM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#1776: Oct 3rd 2019 at 11:40:26 AM

Oh. That was in the original entry, if I remember correctly. Changed it.

Also, [tup] to the header thing.

Edited by MasterN on Oct 3rd 2019 at 1:45:11 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#1777: Oct 3rd 2019 at 5:17:03 PM

Actually. I don't support the thing about not mentioning other Charachters. Actually we already have a variation of that rule

"The entries for this trope should focus on who does qualify, not the characters who do not."

I dislike this rule. Reason being it's perfectly reasonable to note how there meant to Contrast other More sympathetic/Cooler Antagonists. It just needs to be worded in a certain way.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#1778: Oct 3rd 2019 at 5:57:27 PM

Ok, perhaps in some cases the intended contrast between other characters should be noted, but in those cases, the proper format is generally "Ploni Almoni sets himself apart from the more sympathetic/charismatic/complex antagonists of the story." And then the rest of the entry can be devoted to their despicable behaviour, which after all, is generally what sets Hate Sinks apart from other characters.

The format of, "you can't hate Joe Sixpack for x reason, you can't hate Tommy Atkins for y reason, but you can hate Ploni Almoni for z reason" just doesn't flow well, because it wastes time talking about why other characters don't qualify, when all that needs to be said is that the candidate displays qualities which set him apart from other characters who have redeeming qualities.

I have explained multiple times why too much focus on other characters besides the candidate takes up unwanted space. We are never going back to the "you can't hate x" format. Ever. At least, not if we want the entries to be legible.

I can live with something short like "z stands in stark contrast to y" to kick off the entry, as I assume you are suggesting when needed, however.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Oct 19th 2019 at 12:24:08 PM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#1779: Oct 3rd 2019 at 9:20:05 PM

Well, this one is pretty interesting.

What is the work?

The Shining is a 1980 horror film directed by Stanley Kubrick and based on the novel of the same name by Stephen King who royally hated this take on his book, but Imma be honest that I preferred Kubrick's take on the book more. You all know the story: a teacher-turned-writer named Jack Torrance takes the job of the winter caretaker of a hotel in the Rocky Mountains called the Overlook Hotel. His son, Danny, sees several traumatizing events which may be supernatural, or just in his head. Father goes crazy and tries to kill him and his mother. The usual.

Who is he? What has he done?

Jack Torrance. There are many things to say about this guy. For starters, he is a recovering alcoholic who has this irrational belief that everything is a slight against him. When being interviewed for the job, Jack puts on a flair of charm...but when he's with his family, he is noticeably cold and distant with them, such as not being alarmed that Danny knew what cannibalism was because he watched it on television. His relationship with his wife Wendy is even worse. He makes it apparent that he felt tied down to a loveless marriage and would constantly emotionally abuse and gaslight her by accusing her of being at fault while never acknowledging his side. When he goes into the hotel's bar and meets one of the ghosts, he outrights calls Wendy a bitch and a "sperm bank." Basically, because of the "white man's burden," he had found himself being forced into a marriage he did not want.

So, he gradually becomes insane, again it doesn't really matter if it has anything to do with whether the hotel is truly cursed, or if it's just a case of extreme cabin fever. He deliberately destroys the radio to keep Danny and Wendy stranded in the hotel, the intent being made that he was going to kill them. When Dick Hallorann sensed through his shining that something was wrong at the hotel, he goes to investigate...and is then bludgeoned to death by a wild Jack with an axe. He kept pursuing his family, with Danny managing to escape through the bathroom window, his mother not being too lucky, but she does stave him off by stabbing him with a knife. Ultimately ol' Jack met his demise when Danny made a fake trail in the maze and he freezes to death.

Freudian Excuse? Mitigating factors? Complexity?

Let's get this straight: the Jack from the original novel is tragic. He became the way he was as a result of his abusive father, and whenever he abused his family, he resented bringing harm to them. He also performs a Heroic Sacrifice to destroy the Overlook Hotel after momentarily regaining his sanity and telling his son he loved him. This is not the case with Jack Nicholson's take on the character. He is a dick even before he became Ax-Crazy in part due to the hotel. He treats his wife and son with contempt — with even trying to blame Wendy for putting it into Danny's mind that he would hurt him. He outright says that the only thing his wife was good for was bearing his son; he gaslights her; emotionally abuses her to the point that she's shaking like a deer in the headlights. The film makes it apparent that all Jack cared about the most was himself and his needs and that he felt that he was entitled to life in such a way, he takes everything that came his way — whether actual or imaginary — to be a slight against him.

That may overall be controversial as this is a vastly stark contrast to the original novel, but it's its own thing.

What makes him personally despicable?

An abusive, alcoholic, self-entitled prick of a father.

Is he cool?

Well, there's the memorable "all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy" and the famous "HERE'S JOHNNY!!" line, but aside from that...no. Nothing about him is cool as he is stripped from any of his likable or humanizing traits he had in the book.

Authorial intent?

Well, because the film goes out of its way to make sure that the audience never once feel sorry for Good Ol' Jackie Boy, I'd take that as a yes. As I have said, this was not King's vision on his character — with one of his criticisms being how Kubrick made him feel "cold," and downplayed his alcoholism, but given this is strictly Kubrick's vision of the character, I see no issue.

Edited by AustinDR on Oct 3rd 2019 at 9:55:48 AM

Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#1780: Oct 3rd 2019 at 9:33:57 PM

[up] Jack wasn't one of the poster boys for Adaptational Villainy for nothing. Or Adaptational Jerkass depending on your view. Normally, I would hold off such candidate until Doctor Sleep is out (especially if Stephen King is back to course correct Jack's character), but since this was Kubrick's vision and he's not involved with the sequel, then [tup] on the grounds of the director's intent.

Though there should be something to highlight how this was not King's intent.

Edited by Shadao on Oct 3rd 2019 at 9:34:36 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#1782: Oct 3rd 2019 at 9:53:06 PM

I thought I already made it clear that SK hated how Jack was portrayed in the film and that it wasn't his vision. I'll add something to it if I failed to do so.

Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#1783: Oct 3rd 2019 at 10:16:46 PM

[up] I was thinking about how the future entry should be written...

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#1785: Oct 4th 2019 at 1:09:10 AM

[tup] Jack's film incarnation.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#1786: Oct 4th 2019 at 6:04:51 AM

New proposal, from Kingsman: The Secret Service. Credit to Professorchaos for letting me do this one.

Who's the candidate?

The unnamed pastor of the South Glades Mission church. He's credited as "Fanatic Church Leader," so that's what I'll call him.

What does he do?

The first thing we learn about South Glades is that it's a recognized hate group, the kind of assholes that Richmond Valentine finds perfect for demonstrating his Hate Plague mind control signal to superspy Harry Hart. Valentine places Hart in the church during a sermon, where the Leader is spouting off all kinds of vitriol about black people LGBTQ, Jews, Catholics and... basically everybody that's not a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant. Hart tries to leave, but Valentine activates the signal and everybody is filled with a violent rage. They all start killing each other in a massive free-for-all, with Hart coming out on top due to his training. The Fanatic Church Leader meets his end when Hart impales his head with a spike.

Personally despicable?

Due to only having a few minutes of screentime, and an even smaller amount of spoken lines, the Fanatic Church Leader is characterized solely by his incredible amounts of bigotry.

Redeeming qualities?

None. He doesn't have the screentime to get any.

Verdict?

[tup]

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#1787: Oct 4th 2019 at 6:11:12 AM

[tup] Fanatic.

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#1788: Oct 4th 2019 at 2:43:32 PM

[tup]Fanatic Church Leader.

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Professorchaos56 Yet another overworked cashier from Trapped in my own head Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: I want you to want me
Yet another overworked cashier
#1789: Oct 4th 2019 at 4:45:35 PM

[tup] Fanatic Church Leader and Jack's film incarnation.

Edited by Professorchaos56 on Oct 4th 2019 at 5:29:11 AM

Professorchaos56 Yet another overworked cashier from Trapped in my own head Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: I want you to want me
Yet another overworked cashier
#1790: Oct 4th 2019 at 4:50:08 PM

[up][up][up][up]I finally submitted my draft for The President (hopefully I find time to do Charlie's soon) and I made an area for Kingsman candidates in the drafts tab, so when you make yours for the preacher, just slide it on in.

Edited by Professorchaos56 on Oct 4th 2019 at 5:35:16 AM

Mattman_the_Storyteller Since: Aug, 2018
#1791: Oct 4th 2019 at 5:15:45 PM

Are there anymore votes for Takasu from Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D's?

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#1792: Oct 4th 2019 at 9:43:56 PM

[tup] Takasu

[tup] Church leader

Now...The Devil's Double is a 2011 film about Uday Hussein, the psychopathic son of Saddam Hussein, and Latif Yahia, his reluctant Body Double. Based loosely on the extremely dubious Latif's autobiography.

Now...Well, it's obvious who is my candidate. I'm actually glad to mentioning someone who is not a CM.

Who is Uday Hussein?

Son of Saddam Hussein. Uday is a cheerful man in a playboy persona, which means that he's a Serial Rapist who abuses almost every woman he find.

He calls Latif Yahia, The Protagonist, to become his Body Double. Latif initially refuses, but Uday forces him anyway by torturing him and threatening his family, with Latif being whipped when he tries to take rests from his role.

A Politically Incorrect Villain with a hatred towards Kuwait, Uday is more than glad to declare the First Gulf War. Uday later kidnpas a 14 years old girl and forces her to escort him in a party, where he rapes her. There, Uday is enraged towards his father's personal bodyguard Kamel Hana Gegeo, seeing him as the a pimp providing woman for his father and thus hurting his mother. Once Gegeo enters in a drunk rage and insult Uday, Uday brutally kills him. The next day, Uday's bodyguards dump the body of the girl.

A Dirty Coward, Uday sends Latif, acting as Uday, to rally support among Republican Guard soldiers as forces of the Coalition of the Gulf War are taking control, in the mission, Latif suffers an assasination attempt towards Uday. Also, Latif rapes a wife in the day of her marriage, thus causing her to commit suicide, something which he don't cares at the level that he don't even recognize who she was.

Later, Latif is confronted by the father of the teen that Uday killed. Uday outraged by the man's pleas for justice and orders Latif to kill the man, but Latif refuses and instead slits his own wrists, something that amuses Uday. Latif is dumped in his home and after recovering, Latif confronts Uday in what escalates to a shooting where Latin escapes with Uday's lover, Sarrab.

Sarrab, fearing for her daughter in Iraq, calls Uday begging for the chance to return without being harmed.

Uday sends assasins and later, he calls Latif and offers him a chance to return, threatening to kill his father if he refuses. However, Latif's father tells his son to tell Uday "Go to Hell", which he does. Latif's father is killed and his body is dumped in the river, thus denying Latif's mother the possibility to bury her husband.

Latif returns to kill Uday in a clearly fake and fictionalized version of Uday's assasination attempt. Finding Uday trying to catch teenage girls, Latif tries to shoot him but a girl tries to prevent him, which leads to Uday taking wounds...on his genitals.

The epilogue mentions that Uday was permanently handicapped by the attack but survived until his killing by the U.S. forces in 2003 (That is...sadly totally fake, Uday IRL recovered and went in a raping spree to prove his virility...Yeah. Fuck Uday).

Why he's loathsome?

Serial Rapist, torturer, Evil Is Petty, Lack of Empathy, Faux Affably Evil, It's All About Me. Yep, easy yes.

Redeeming traits

He loves him mom. Something that motivates him to brutally kill his father's bodyguard. He's also a obvious hypocrite, hating said bodyguard for providing his dad with prostitutes when Uday is...well, pretty promiscuous.

No Sympathy for this, not at all.

Verdict?

Easy Yes.

Watch me destroying my country
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#1794: Oct 5th 2019 at 3:54:00 PM

It's been two weeks since my candidates were approved, and I haven't done their writeups yet, so I may as well get that done with.

  • Henry — Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer: While not on the same level of depravity as Otis, Henry proves to be plenty contemptible in his own right. He displays absolutely no genuine empathy for those around him, simply sitting back and watching a man being murdered in the park. At the end, he even murders Becky — who was being shaped up as a Morality Pet to him — and left her dismembered remains on the side of the road.
  • Y'golonacCthulhu Mythos: He is one of the few of his kind that can be regarded as truly evil, being a cosmic serial rapist and killer that has absolutely no problems with defiling and murdering anyone he gets his hands on.
  • Josef Mengele — Reign in Blood: Josef Mengele is portrayed in as horrific fashion as ever, reveling in his depraved experiments as the song's narrator condemns him as a "butcher" and his acts as "sickening".

Edited by Stellarvore on Oct 5th 2019 at 6:04:40 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#1795: Oct 5th 2019 at 10:10:21 PM

  • Kingsman: The Secret Service: The unnamed pastor of the South Glades Mission Church stands out as loathsome despite having very little screentime. Leading a recognized hate group, he spends his sermons deriding people of colour, LGBTQ people, Jews and anybody else who isn't a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant. Richmond Valentine decodes that his church will be the perfect place to demonstrate a rage-inducing signal, and forces the entire church to slsughter each other so superspy Harry Hart can understand his scheme.

I know it's short, but the guy is super minor.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#1796: Oct 5th 2019 at 10:11:49 PM

Belated "yes" to that human garbage. Are you also going to do President Tr- I mean the President from Kingsman: The Golden Circle?

Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#1798: Oct 6th 2019 at 12:20:38 AM

Professorchaos already did the President. He's on the drafts page. Even if they hadn't, I haven't seen Golden Circle yet.

Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#1799: Oct 6th 2019 at 12:30:14 AM

This little batch is up (with some modifications for Pennywise):

  • Philosophy Tube: The Arsonist, also known as the traveling salesman, is portrayed by Olly as embodying, to him, everything wrong with modern-day ultraconservative worldviews as well as representing a cautionary tale of how vulnerable people are towards far-right and fascistic ideas. In Steve Bannon, the Arsonist is used by Olly to highlight how the far-right uses superficial charm and exploits down-to-earth rhetoric to turn people against anti-racist and anti-fascist activists and light matches(a metaphor for committing hate crimes) with the arsonist. Further videos such as Abortion & Ben Shapiro and Climate Grief reveal that the Arsonist was responsible for burning his wife to death when she had an abortion and that the Arsonist believes that draconian forms of population control directed against immigrants and refugees are totally justifiable means of fighting climate change.
Scream 4
  • This is making a move: Mr. Walker is the adoptive father of Charlie Walker. Mr. Walker physically and sexually abused his biological son Kris, resulting in Kris drowning himself in a lake at the age of 13. Several years later, Mr. and Mrs. Walker adopted Charlie and Mr. Walker repeated the pattern with Charlie by physically and sexually abusing him, which drove him to become Jill Roberts' accomplice when she offered him a scrap of kindness. Overall, Mr. Walker is the primary instigator behind most of Charlie's psychological issues and it's clear that before long, he would be released from prison to torment more children.
  • The Lion King: Scar starts the film off as any typical Disney villain, Obviously Evil but with a witty and charming personality for the audience to enjoy. But once he becomes king, he loses all of his charms and devolves into a Psychopathic Manchild who leads the Pride Lands to ruin out of his own incompetence, abusing and blaming everyone but himself for the problems he has caused. He is ultimately mauled by his hyena minions after they realize he's willing to betray them to save his own hide.
  • The Last Jedi: For all his mystery and gravitas, it slowly but surely becomes clear that Supreme Leader Snoke is little more than a vile Smug Snake who emotionally manipulates and abuses Kylo Ren for his own selfish gain. Later on, he arrogantly toys and tortures Rey, making her watch the destruction of Resistance fleet, before forcing Kylo Ren to kill her to complete his training. His sudden Undignified Death at the hands of Kylo Ren all but cements him as a Big Bad Wannabe who has all of Emperor Palpatine's cruelty but with none of the charm or intelligence that the Sith Lord was best known for.
  • Rosario + Vampire: Gyokuro Shuzen is one of the heads of the anti-human terrorist organization Fairy Tale, and is the vilest one. Holding a grudge against Akasha Bloodriver for stealing her husband Issa's attention away from her, Gyokuro seeks to start a war between humans and monsters solely for the sake of spiting Akasha's dream of co-existence between monsters and humankind. Along the way, she conditions her eldest daughter Kahlua into a mindless killing machine, attempts to have her youngest daughter Kokoa killed by her own sister, and takes every opportunity to physically and psychologically torment Akasha's daughter Moka. Finally, she fuses with Alucard and attempts to destroy the whole world. Lacking the sympathetic backstories of Hokuto and The Masked King, Gyokuro is a monster both literally and figuratively.
  • It:
    • It is an ancient, vile monster hailing from the Macroverse. Arriving at Derry millennia ago, It awakens every 27 years to feed on Derry's children, salting their flesh with fear. Killing Georgie Denbrough as Pennywise the Dancing Clown, It continuously harasses the Losers Club, including taking sadistic delight in relishing Bill's guilt over his brother's death, and views itself as the supreme being. Even when its views are challenged after its first defeat at the hands of the Losers, It devotes the next 27 years calculating revenge to rectify it. When the Losers defeat It for the final time, It spends its last moments as a Dirty Coward desperately bargaining for its life, revealing It to be just a hollow bully who needs fear to keep itself ticking.
  • It (2017): Bill Skarsgård's take on Pennywise the Dancing Clown outdoes the original version in sheer depravity. Along with IT's crimes from the novel, IT taunts the possibility of Georgie being alive just to send Bill on a fruitless hunt that puts his friends in danger in the process. 27 years later, IT also pretends to save a gay man from drowning only to devour his heart in front of his boyfriend. IT kills a young girl after promising to remove her embarrassing birthmark, and — to further taunt Bill over his inability to save Georgie — makes him relive it by killing another boy in front of him.
  • mother! (2017): In an overly environmental film, humanity proves once again capable of committing horrible acts. Upon becoming fans of Him, they vandalize the house, wage wars over interpretations of his work, massacre crowds, distribute slaves through trading, and grisly eat mother's baby son in an ultimate act of depravity after accidentally killing him.

Edited by Shadao on Oct 6th 2019 at 12:30:28 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#1800: Oct 6th 2019 at 2:18:08 AM

Late yes to pastor dude.

Edited by miraculous on Oct 6th 2019 at 2:18:25 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

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