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The main concern of a Hate Sink is whether the narrative treats the character as someone intended to be despised.

The character in question must actually display detestable qualities, and be hated by other characters at least, or treated by the narrative like someone you are supposed to hate. The author's declared intent cements an example, but is not needed if the narrative itself treats the character as someone who is supposed to be hated.

A Hate Sink may have charismatic traits, a troubled past, or complexity, but in order for this trope to be in effect, such traits must be de-emphasized by the narrative in favour of their detestable traits.

Please note that we do not use Effort Posts.

Edited by gjjones on Dec 3rd 2020 at 7:43:25 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#1276: Aug 28th 2019 at 7:41:25 PM

[tup] Marvolo

Isn't Frollo already up?

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from some frozen wasteland (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#1277: Aug 28th 2019 at 7:44:43 PM

I think that his EP may have been done just in case.

Rawr.
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#1278: Aug 28th 2019 at 7:45:23 PM

This for the original Freddy or the remake one? Because the remake one is blatantly stated to have been a child molester.

[up][up] I believe in doing EPs on characters that may or may not be listed to document them. But primarily, the reason as to why I did the EP was because of the fact that many had used his Villain Song or his Draco in Leather Pants status to conclude that he was deliberately written to be cool when that is all reliant on audience reaction.

Edited by AustinDR on Aug 28th 2019 at 7:48:39 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#1279: Aug 28th 2019 at 7:48:21 PM

For Freddy.....Perhaps we could make it so he counts in the original but lost this in the sequels? Unlike MB or CM we can list Played With or Zig-Zagged examples.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from some frozen wasteland (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#1280: Aug 28th 2019 at 7:51:07 PM

[up] I believe we can, but we have to make note of examples that are played with.

Rawr.
Shadao To be a Master Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
To be a Master
#1281: Aug 28th 2019 at 10:19:31 PM

[tup] to Marvolo and Frollo.

Anyways, I've tallied up the votes for Scar

5 [tup] for Scar; 3 [tdown], 1 abstain. Hmmm, we don't have a clear majority so I'll lay out (with permission from @Kylotrope) a much more detailed explanation as to why Scar counts as a Hate Sink (and hopefully persuade a few folks on the fence):

What makes him personally hateable?

Prior to Scar, most classic Disney villains can be summarized as buffoonish as they are evil. The Evil Queen, Queen of Hearts, Captain Hook, Maleficent, Cruella De Vil, Shere Khan, Professor Ratigan, Ursula, McLeach, Gaston, Jafar; they were all villains who are funny as well as evil.

Scar is initially like that, having a campy personality and comedic moments that hint to his darker nature. But what separates him from the previous villains is the fact that he successfully killed Mufasa, a move that traumatized children worldwide as well as Simba. No other Disney villain had successfully committed onscreen murder and have it stick (most of the time, it's reversed via magic). And if that wasn't enough, Scar shames Simba into thinking that it's his fault that his beloved father is dead and tells him to run away from the Pride Lands. And then he sends the hyenas to kill his nephew for good measure. As the filmmakers put it:

“When Scar puts the guilt trip on Simba, that’s an intense idea,” allows one of the film’s two directors, Rob Menkoff. “That’s probably something that is not typical of the other Disney pictures, in terms of what the villain does.”

“Which is working psychological damage on the hero as a child,” adds the other director, Rob Minkoff, with a blunt, hearty laugh.

Once Scar commits the Moral Event Horizon, his charm as a villain vanishes and we are left with a detestable villain who is willing to let the lionesses and hyenas starve to death because he wouldn't admit any wrongdoing of how he rules. And keep in mind, that's for the animated film. The Broadway show and "live-action" remake also incorporate "The Madness of King Scar" subplot where Scar is forcibly trying to get himself a queen with or without her consent in the second half of the story.

Evil Is Cool?

"That's not to say a lot of the other villains weren't power-hungry dictators, but here's the thing: when they do get their power, they're still interesting characters. When Scar gets his power, he stops being interesting, and instead turns into a whiny little prima donna."
Nostalgia Critic, who pretty much sums up Scar's character in the second half of the film.

Like any other Disney villain who manages to win (albeit temporarily) and Take Over the World, Scar turns the Pride Lands into Mordor. But this isn't because Scar wants to show how evil he is. Rather, it's the result of him being a lazy king who shrinks his responsibilities and let the hyenas eat without restriction. He's such a lousy king that even the hyenas are starting to wish Mufasa back, which is something he cannot tolerate hearing. Yes, Scar acts as a child. A really spoiled child. He's not Jafar who basks in his status as Sultan and Sorcerer Supreme. He's not Ursula who terrorizes the seas with her newly acquired powers. He's not Maleficent who wants to spread evil and misery everywhere. He's just an incompetent king who was going to fail anyways because of his own policies. Simba merely saves what's left of the pride to ensure that there will be a future.

And when Simba finally confronts Scar for the murder of Mufasa, Scar cowardly uses the hyenas to fight his nephew and uses the ensuring chaos to flee from the scene. Even Gaston, who in the end was revealed to be a coward at heart, at least bravely fights the Beast alone with nothing but the tools on his back. Scar couldn't even muster that when given the chance. The only time he actually fights is when Simba corners him and he uses a dirty move to get the advantage. After blaming the hyenas for his crimes and then begging Simba to spare him. Yup, physically fighting Simba is literally the last thing he wants to do.

Originally, early drafts of the film had Scar defeat Simba by throwing him off the ledge, only to be consumed by the fire above as he madly laughs of his Pyrrhic Victory. While the official explanation for the change is that this earlier death scene was too graphic for Disney, I'm more inclined to believe that they changed it to make Scar's death more satisfying, as this final fight is also where Scar reveals the truth about Mufasa's death to Simba (meaning there was no public confession to the rest of the pride prior to this), and the scene made it look like Scar personally won even as he dies; he may not live longer but at least he dies sitting on Pride Rock as king.

Whereas in the actual death scene, Scar is clearly dethroned off of Pride Rock by Simba and his last moment is begging for mercy as the hyenas viciously eat him alive for his betrayal. An Undignified Death for an unworthy king.

All in all, we see a clear pattern from Disney's intent. Scar is never meant to be rooted for after murdering Mufasa, even with the best lines spoken by Jeremy Irons.

Edited by Shadao on Aug 29th 2019 at 1:25:41 AM

Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#1282: Aug 28th 2019 at 10:39:47 PM

@AustinDR I'm referring to the original continuity. I haven't bothered to watch the remake, so I can't say whether or not he counts there, but being a confirmed child molester, I'm willing to bet he would.

As for him counting in the first but not the sequels, he barely has much of a personality in the first except for the creepy enjoyment he takes out of chasing his victims down, and doesn't revel in cruelty for its own sake as much as he does in the sequels. The closest he'd probably come to counting are the third and fourth movies, but he's still got his charm in those, and in Freddy's Dead, he might have shown his absolute worst side, but by then, he's far too goofy to actually hate.

Edited by Stellarvore on Aug 28th 2019 at 12:40:11 PM

Shadao To be a Master Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
To be a Master
#1283: Aug 28th 2019 at 10:47:58 PM

[up] Well, we'll need an EP then to clear things up. I believe the reason Freddy was included in Hate Sink was that his crimes on paper are truly horrible even by slasher standards. Likable protagonists combined with a sadistic killer who murders children for fun? Sounds like a Hate Sink to me. But we need to see the film itself to judge if that was their intent with Freddy.

Also, any more votes for Scar? Anyone change their minds?

Edited by Shadao on Aug 28th 2019 at 10:48:33 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#1284: Aug 28th 2019 at 11:21:30 PM

Y'know what? Sure. [tup] Scar.

ETA: New proposal, from Masked Avengers.

Who's the candidate?

Lin Yung Chi, a rich man in a city terrorized by masked killers.

What does he do?

At first, Lin seems like your standard smug rich asshole, actively refusibg to help the imperial investigators solve the murders. He is eventually revealed to be the leader of the gang. As ut turns out, he founded the gang not as an assassins' guild, but just to Rape, Pillage, and Burn for the hell of it. He even drives his initial second-in-command away by torturing a guy to death and ordering a woman gang-raped. When the investogators start fighting his gang, Lin orders them picked off one by one, eventually slaughtering all but one and his ex-Dragon (who joined the heroes to stop him) via Booby Trap before finally being killed.

Personally despicable?

Smug, sadistic, rapey and brutal. Yep, I'd say so.

Redeeming qualities?

None. He can't even act nice when he's pretending to not be evil.

Verdict?

[tup]

Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Aug 29th 2019 at 2:31:42 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from some frozen wasteland (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#1285: Aug 29th 2019 at 3:45:13 AM

[tup] Lin.

[down] You need to make an effortpost, pal.

What is the work?

State the work and which medium it is a part of, as well as what the work is about.

Who is the character, and what do they do?

State who the character is, and what courses of action they take.

;What makes them personally despicable? State the specific reasons they are despicable, such as petty behaviour and personal villainy.

Evil Is Cool traits? Complexity? Freudian Excuse?

State whether or not the character has any traits which get in the way of them being despicable, and if so, whether said traits are de-emphasised in favour of their despicable behaviour.

Verdict?

State whether or not you believe the criteria are met.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Aug 29th 2019 at 10:03:07 AM

Rawr.
Snailfish The Timeless One from The planet Oban Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
The Timeless One
#1286: Aug 29th 2019 at 6:21:16 PM

If there's any FMA fans on here, I'm wondering if anyone's considered that General Raven and the other Central Commanders have earned a Hate Sink spot.

"I am the lord of Purity, who tolerates no deviation." My first online story
Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#1287: Aug 29th 2019 at 9:00:41 PM

[up][up]I think Snailfish was trying to ask first if anyone thinks that candidate counts before doing an EP.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#1288: Aug 29th 2019 at 9:15:53 PM

Please don't ignore my EP.

Shadao To be a Master Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
To be a Master
#1289: Aug 29th 2019 at 9:44:33 PM

[tup] to Lin. Anyone else for Scar?

Also, today is my birthday. tongue

IukaSylvie from Kyoto, Japan Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#1290: Aug 29th 2019 at 9:52:00 PM

[tup] Gaunt, Frollo, Scar and Lin.

Happy birthday, Shadao.

The Woobie Drafts; Pending Woobie Writeups
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#1291: Aug 29th 2019 at 10:11:33 PM

Yes to Lin.

Anyway...

First deciding to do another Disney Villain I don't really know lands it or not.

What is the work?

The Princess And The Frog is a traditionally animated film in the Disney Animated Canon about an African American waitress named Tiana who dreams of opening her own restaurant but gets caught up with a prince named Naveen who was tricked into the form of a frog by a known conman.

Who is the candidate?

Dr. Facilier, or the Shadow Man, is a voodoo sorcerer who aims to take over New Orleans after becoming rich. When he learns about Naveen's arrival in New Orleans, he transforms Naveen into a frog and tries to rope his treacherous valet Lawrence into a scheme to marry into the LeBouff family so he could acquire the wealth and kill off Big Daddy LeBouff. To make matters worse for him, Facilier finds himself deeply in debt to his Friends on the Other Side, who make it apparent that they were willing to collect him as payment. To stave off this when Naveen escaped, Facilier offers up the souls of the entire city to his Friends so that they could glut themselves.

With the deal being struck, Facilier sends out shadow demons to locate Naveen and also stomps on Ray the Firefly when he stole his talisman. Seeing Tiana nearly smash it, he quickly creates an illusion where she got everything that she wanted, claiming that it'd become a reality if she gave him the talisman. She nearly succumbs to his temptations but realizes the real reason as to why her father worked hard for his family and tries to smash it again. When Facilier's shadow grabs it, he gloats saying that she'd spend the rest of her life as a slimy, little frog. Using her quick thinking, Tiana catches the talisman with her tongue and destroys it. Facilier is horrified as his talisman represented the payment he made with his Friends, and now, they had come to collect his soul. Facilier tries to weasel his way out of receiving their wrath, but his shadow is grabbed and he is dragged kicking and screaming into the main voodoo mask which closes to reveal his tombstone.

Freudian Excuse? Complexity? Evil Is Cool?

Now, the setting makes it apparent that African Americans were on the receiving end of prejudice and being disadvantaged. Facilier himself implies that this was partially his motivation for getting rich. However, this is quickly tossed on its head once you remember when Facilier offered up New Orleans to sacrifice to his Friends for payment, that would also include the downtrodden areas of New Orleans that he originated from. The film makes it more clear that Facilier is primarily motivated by greed rather than out of a sense of being wronged.

Facilier is — as Naveen himself attests to — a very charismatic man with charm and a kickass Villain Song (which came back to bite him in the butt). He also has moments where he could be funny. But again, this is for the first half of the film. One can make the argument that once he decided to sacrifice New Orleans to pay off his debts is the moment where his cunning and charisma stops because of the fact that he was so greedy for power, he placed himself in that situation and was now trying to put his problem on a whole city. And if that's not the case where he stopped being charming, then he most assuredly loses it when he cold bloodedly kills Ray and then tries to screw over a poor black woman.

Personally despicable?

Fucking offering an entire city to avoid the consequences of something that was his own fault, or murdering the comic relief. Or trying to deceive a hard-working black woman who makes a more honest living? Take your pick.

And so, here's another one for the road.

What is the work?

The Banana Splits is that one horror movie from SYFY that no one asked for, but it exists. A dark reimagining of the original 1960s variety show, here, the Banana Splits are animatronics (really, there's no good reason as to why they are robots here when it could've been more effective to just have people in costumes doing the killing) that are established to have been around for 50 years, and a family named the Williams are celebrating the birthday of rabid fan Harley when they decide to take him on a trip to Taft Studios to see the Splits live. Too bad they chose to visit on the day that the Banana Splits Show was scheduled for cancellation.

Who are the candidates?

Human co-host Stevie, studio executive Andy, and stepfather Mitch Williams.

What have they done?

Let's start with Stevie. He is the one human star of the series who is a fine example of Nice Character, Mean Actor. In universe, Stevie is hated by the young demographic and his crew mates. And it's not hard to see why. He is a prudish drunkard who tries to appear on the show whenever he wanted in complete mockery of the script. It's not surprising that Stevie truly hated working for the show, and is delighted upon overhearing about its cancellation. After the show, he makes several jabs at the Splits, unintentionally enraging them. Drooper the Lion follows Stevie to one of the backstage rooms and grabs him. He then forces his lollipop (okay that sounds wrong without context) prop down his throat, killing him. We also get the satisfaction of seeing his corpse get immolated when the Splits were holding the kids hostage.

Next is Andy. For whatever reason, Andy decides to up and cancel the series despite the fact that it was still wildly popular. I mean sure chuck away fifty years of hard work because it's "old and lame." For this, Andy gets abducted by the Splits and is later revealed to have been nailed to the Splits' spinning wheel where he gets the honor of being the first one to receive the banana split. Drooper and Fleegle grab ahold of the studio executive and pull on his arms and legs until they snapped off, leaving him a limbless mess on the floor.

Lastly is Mitch. Mitch was Beth's husband and the stepfather of Austin Williams, the older half-brother of Harley. To start with, he cheats on his wife with his co-worker, and ultimately resents Harley and Austin for taking up most of Beth's attention never mind the fact that they were both her sons, so of course. He takes a dip out of the film when Snorky runs him over with his Banana Buggie for some indiscernible reason, but resurfaces apparently having an epiphany about how much of a jackass he had been to Beth and the kids and realizes that he loved Beth. Beth, having none of that, socks him, asking for a divorce. To make matters worse for Mitch, he gets struck again by a Banana Buggie (this time killing him) by a mad Poppy who had become a Banana Splits character in her own right and leaving the indication of a Sequel Hook.

Freudian Excuse? Evil Is Cool? Complexity?

No, no, and no.

Personally despicable?

Stevie is a perverted alcoholic. Andy cancels a show for no reason and very clearly abuses his position for kicks. And Mitch is a dirty, dirty cheater who prioritizes his needs over his family.

[down][down][down] Since when was attempt not counted? And I already addressed most of your arguments in the post. And crying for his life at the end? A Villainous Breakdown that takes away his levelheaded demeanor. Nothing there is charismatic, and the film itself makes it clear he got what was coming to him.

Edited by AustinDR on Aug 29th 2019 at 11:40:11 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#1292: Aug 29th 2019 at 10:57:39 PM

[tup] Facilier, Stevie, Andy and Mitch

Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#1293: Aug 29th 2019 at 11:05:20 PM

Yes to Lin, abstain on Scar.

Shadao To be a Master Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
To be a Master
#1294: Aug 29th 2019 at 11:20:43 PM

In regards to Dr. Faciler, I give a [tdown]. He's a Complete Monster for sure, but he never lost that charisma he had at the beginning, unlike Scar, and his entire character is all about temptation and manipulation. He's the devil that makes the deals, and he'll only win if you agree to them. He's only really rude to Naveen's butler, who is honestly deserves it for betraying Naveen for his selfish interest. To Tiana, he plays up his charisma as Keith David playing the devil. And considering that the story is about wants and what you have, it's a essential role for our protagonist to face. All great villains do these types of deals, most particularly Darth Sidious.

His scheme to sacrifice New Orleans to his Friends on the Other Side. Evil, yes. But it's not like he was able to execute the scheme at all to showcase how horrible he is. Compare that to Scar and Frollo, who actually partially succeed in harming the innocents on a massive scale for the audience to see; and they do it in a manner that is realistic. The sacrifice offer is fantastical in nature, on par with Ursula's Poor Unfortunate Souls. Really, the whole offering New Orlean thing only appears in that one scene and could have been cut from the movie and it would still make sense. It's only there to show how much trouble Facilier is in with his Friends, that this was his last shot, and that the stakes for our heroes has risen.

Maybe if Facilier succeeded, we would be having a different discussion. But since he does not and remains to be the same character as he was in the beginning, I don't think the filmmakers were trying to make him a Hate Sink. Heck, they even created Lawerence that Facilier works in proximity so that this villain would not be tainted by Unfortunate Implications of a villainous African American man trying to marry a white Southern girl with a disguise.

Edited by Shadao on Aug 29th 2019 at 11:34:37 AM

Klavice I Need a Freaking Drink from A bar at the edge of time (Don’t ask) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#1295: Aug 29th 2019 at 11:33:49 PM

Yes to Freddy but no to Scar and especially Facilier. I think Scar, superficial or not, has enough charm to prevent him from being this trope. Horrible? Yes. Complete Monster? Definitely? Hate Sink? Probably not.

Expect Lekain's effortpost soon.

Happy belated birthday Shadao btw.

You know what? Here he is!

Who is Vice Minister Lekain?

Vice Minister Lekain as you can tell by his title is the second in command of Begnion's clergy and nobles behind the Prime Minister Sephiran and the apostle herself.

What has he done that makes him so despicable?

More like, "what hasn't he done?" After all, Lekain is indirectly responsible for the entire Tellius games plots having murdered the apostle and blaming it on the peace loving herons. This caused a massacre by the people killing all but four of the Serenes Forest Heron Laguz clan, and crippling the king. If that wasn't enough to make him utter scum given he essentially kickstarted the Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds Big Bad 's plot to cause a war between of all the nations. In the next game, Lekain and Izuka, both incredibly racist senators, hatch a plan to exterminate the laguz (demi humans who can shapeshift so it's more than animal cruelty it's outright apartheid) for good. First Izuka goes to a random hapless young man, claiming he's the rightful heir to Daein. Then, after ordering Duke Numida and General Jarod to cruelly mistreat the Daeins who lost the war to Begnion and Crimea, Lekain continues his scheme by forcing Daein's naive new king Pelleas, to sign a Blood Pact which means that Daein has no choice but to obey the Senate, unless they want to see their people die one by one. Thus, Lekain assassinates the messenger in charge of a peace treaty between the Laguz and Begnion and declares war on the Laguz. Midway through the war after the Greil Mercenaries start decimating their forces, Lekain calls upon Daein to pincer the cornered Laguz Alliance forcing them to nearly be wiped out. Thus the alliance goes to war with Daein forcing Micaiah and Sothe two reluctant fighters to fight the alliance. They get holed up in a castle where the Alliance, led by Ike, decides to finish them off for good. As the war seems hopeless for the Daeins, the goddess Ashera wakes up and turns to stone every NPC in the game. Led by fanatical Lekain, this new army known as the Disciples of Order hound the protagonists at every mile. Prior to all of this, Lekain also gave a blood pact to the raven Laguz kingdom of Kilvas led by Chronic Backstabbing Disorder extraordinare, Naesala forcing them to betray their Laguz allies. The party meets up with Lekain in the tower and he explains his plot of getting Sanaki and Sephiran installed as the Empress and Prime Minister respectively to get the people's trust and then framing the Heron tribe for the murder of the grandmother of the current Apostle/Empress. What's even worse is he encouraged slavery and abuse amongst the nobles towards laguz of all races, forcing Oliver to be a villain and only turned "good" because his obsession with the heron laguz is that demented, almost like a paedo with their child target. That's not even going into the fact he tried to forcibly marry Astrid who was significantly younger than her (possibly a teen at the time of his proposal) and approves of Izuka turning the Laguz into Feral Ones (basically making them monstrous for profit).

Evil Is Cool? Redeeming Traits?

HA HA HA—No. None at all. Lekain is a fiend and an ass to the very end, and even has the gall to say what he's doing is Ashera's will. He has virtually no charm at all. I'd even say Eric Cartman has more charm than this bastard.

Verdict?

Easy, easy yes.

Edited by Klavice on Aug 29th 2019 at 11:36:24 AM

Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
Shadao To be a Master Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
To be a Master
#1296: Aug 29th 2019 at 11:43:01 PM

[up] Oh, Scar certainly has charm to him, especially in the first half of the story. There's no denying of that. But it's the second half where the question of Hate Sink comes into play since that's where we see Scar's true nature as The Caligula and a Psychopathic Man Child. It's very noticeable and almost overwhelm any sense of Jeremy Irons' charm as a result. Heck, it even contradicts Scar's own claim that he's got the brains whereas Mufasa's got the brawn since such poor mismanagement could not be the result of a smart lion.

And since Hate Sink is a trope that can be objectively Played With, I think the best compromise is to note how Scar devolves into a Hate Sink in the second half of the film.

Oh and [tup] to Vice Minister Lekain

Edited by Shadao on Aug 29th 2019 at 11:45:53 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#1297: Aug 29th 2019 at 11:43:44 PM

That, and you sound like you're relying more on audience reaction which we already established to not be a qualifier for the trope. The notion is that he clearly meant to keep that bargain with his friends. To say that it would be the same if it was removed is hogwash.

And of course the Banana Splits portion is ignored.

Edited by AustinDR on Aug 29th 2019 at 11:45:00 AM

Shadao To be a Master Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
To be a Master
#1298: Aug 30th 2019 at 12:01:40 AM

In regards to Banana Split, [tup] to Stevie and the others. In regards to Facilier, I'll switch to abstain in light of your counterargument, but I'm dreading to see Hate Sink devolve into something like People Sit On Chairs. I still remember one of the early points regarding the whole Hate Sink clean-up problem states that villains are, by default, Hate Sink because of their role in the story.

Edited by Shadao on Aug 30th 2019 at 12:16:06 PM

Klavice I Need a Freaking Drink from A bar at the edge of time (Don’t ask) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#1299: Aug 30th 2019 at 12:05:32 AM

Sorry, yes to the Splits candidates.

Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#1300: Aug 30th 2019 at 12:37:49 AM

[tup] to the Splits stuff and...

After thinking about it, [tup] to Facilier.

What really gets it for me is this, they didn't just have Facilier die, they have him die in one of the Most horrifying, "wouldn't be out of place in a Supernatural horror film" ways ever put to a Disney film. If it weren't For that? Id probably either Abstain or downvote. But given that and the fact his whole motivation is essentially to Wheazle his way out paying the price of a deal? I'm comphy upvoting him.

Also @Shadao. I'm...not seeing how them wanting to Avoid Unfortunate Implications has to do with them not wanting Facilier to be Hated.

And lastly @Klavice. You seem to misunderstand, its not that Scars charm is superficial, it's that he LOSES that charm in the second half.

Things are really about to get Fun around here

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