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Hate Sink cleanup

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The main concern of a Hate Sink is whether the narrative treats the character as someone intended to be despised.

The character in question must actually display detestable qualities, and be hated by other characters at least, or treated by the narrative like someone you are supposed to hate. The author's declared intent cements an example, but is not needed if the narrative itself treats the character as someone who is supposed to be hated.

A Hate Sink may have charismatic traits, a troubled past, or complexity, but in order for this trope to be in effect, such traits must be de-emphasized by the narrative in favour of their detestable traits.

Please note that we do not use Effort Posts.

Edited by gjjones on Dec 3rd 2020 at 7:43:25 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#976: Jul 27th 2019 at 5:43:51 PM

@ACW

Yes, in fact some Charachters may be Love to Hate for the Audience BECAUSE Of how loathsome they are, like the spades king from deltatune

Things are really about to get Fun around here
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#977: Jul 27th 2019 at 7:14:26 PM

I have adjusted Mysterio's entry a little and given a little more context as to what makes him personally despicable.

I would additionally like to welcome ACW to the thread.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jul 27th 2019 at 11:33:16 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#978: Jul 27th 2019 at 8:21:03 PM

Shadao, where are the drafts?

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#980: Jul 27th 2019 at 8:26:10 PM

[up]Thanks, Austin.

Why did you remove the links to the sandboxes and pending writeups, ~Shadao? By doing that you are putting us at a disadvantage.

Additionally, I have left spoilers unmarked for Mysterio's hate sink entry.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jul 27th 2019 at 11:32:47 AM

Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#981: Jul 27th 2019 at 8:34:22 PM

[up] I reseted my password out of security concerns (especially after hearing that passwords were being stolen), and apparently TV Tropes decided to reset my signature. Took me forever to find all the links back.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#982: Jul 27th 2019 at 8:39:01 PM

Oh. Ok. Sorry, I didn't realize that.

Anyways, [tup] Amai Mask.

As for Syndrome, I guess it depends on where the emphasis is. If his flamboyant grandstanding and false charisma are emphasized over his pettier qualities, I am not sure I'd say yes. However, if his juvenile vindictiveness is emphasized, along with his refusal to take responsibility for his actions, I'd likely say he is an easy keeper.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jul 27th 2019 at 11:52:52 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#983: Jul 27th 2019 at 10:14:06 PM

Now for an effort post from my favourite movie.

What is the work?

Die Hard is a beloved action movie starring Bruce Willis as John McClane. John is at a party at Nakatomi Plaza when a bunch of armed gunmen take over the building. The first thing John does after he realizes that there are armed gunmen is neautralize one...and call the cops on the radio. Unfortunately, the person who answers his call is an incompetent Police Supervisor, who does not believe his story.

Who is the unnamed Police Supervisor, and what does she do?

The unnamed Police Supervisor is a jaded LAPD officer who is dismissive towards John's call for help, as she thinks his call, and the fire alarm he pulled before that, are pranks. As such, the Supervisor attempts to dismiss John by telling him that the line he is using is for emergency calls only. When John attempts to convey the gravity of the situation, the Supervisor threatens to have John arrested for an FCC violation, causing John to continue to demand police presence at Nakatomi. Only when the Supervisor hears gunshots does she bother to send a cruiser.

What makes her personally despicable?

In four words? The Police Are Useless.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but police officers are supposed to take emergency calls seriously. When someone calls about a hostage situation, the police department is supposed to send someone to investigate, regardless of whether they think it is a prank. Aside from the fire alarm being pulled despite there being no fire, there was no justification for the Supervisor not to at least investigate. She fell asleep on the job big time, and that's if you're being favourable. If you're not being favourable, she willfully risked the lives of several people simply because she thought an emergency call may have been a prank.

Evil Is Cool traits? Freudian Excuse? Complexity?

Don't make me say it.

Do not make me say it.

Ok, fine I'll say it, on 3.

1... 2... 3! FEH!

Admittedly, the Supervisor does eventually send a cruiser to Nakatomi after hearing the gunshots, but at the same time...she sends a cruiser; and ONE cruiser is far from sufficient for a large hostage situation, even if she thought it was a prank. She was a hairsbreadth away from dooming the hostages due to the fact that she thought something was a prank. She is absolutely a Villainy-Free Villain in that regard.

Verdict?

Surprisingly easy keeper.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jul 28th 2019 at 8:13:27 AM

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#984: Jul 27th 2019 at 11:19:02 PM

Sure to the unnamed Police Supervisor.

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Professorchaos56 Yet another overworked cashier from Trapped in my own head Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: I want you to want me
Yet another overworked cashier
#985: Jul 27th 2019 at 11:26:24 PM

It has been the better part of 24 hours so I am going to purpose my next One-Punch Man candidate.

This one is actually a two-fer: Tank-Top Tiger and Tank-Top Blackhole.

Who are they? What have they done?

Tank-Top Tiger and Tank-Top Blackhole are part of the Tank-Top family, a significant portion of the heroes in One-Punch Man's Hero Association. Tank-Top Tiger and Tank-Top Blackhole are ranked C-Class number 6 and B-Class number 81 respectively. Unfortunately, they have a case of Small Name, Big Ego and tried to destroy Saitama's reputation as a hero.

Evil Is Cool? Complexity? Freudian Excuse?

Nothing.

What makes them personally despicable?

When Saitama jumped over Tank-Top Tiger in the rankings by destroying the meteor, Tiger and Blackhole turned the citizens Saitama save against him, telling them that it is his fault their homes were destroyed. They then tried to get him to quit by making the crowd chant for him to quit. Finally, they topped it off by pretending Saitama was going to attack the crowd so they had an excuse to attack him.

Author intent:

In contrast to the genuinely heroic S-Class hero Tank-Top Master (who stepped in to defend his brothers from Garou when Garou was attacking them and helps Mumen Rider and calls him brave), Tank-Top Tiger and Tank-Top Blackhole only purpose is to cost Saitama his attempt to get satisfaction from his hero work by ruining his reputation.

Verdict:

Big [tup] for the Tank-Top brother.

Professorchaos56 Yet another overworked cashier from Trapped in my own head Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: I want you to want me
Yet another overworked cashier
#986: Jul 27th 2019 at 11:26:51 PM

brothers.

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#987: Jul 28th 2019 at 1:55:05 AM

Sure to Tank-Top Tiger and Tank-Top Blackhole.

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#988: Jul 28th 2019 at 2:10:16 AM

I can vouch Tank-Top brothers being a Hate Sink. Sure to the Police Officer as well. But I need to think on Amai Mask

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#989: Jul 28th 2019 at 4:04:55 AM

Abstain on the Supervisor.

[tup] The One Punch duo.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#990: Jul 28th 2019 at 4:19:50 AM

[tup]Tank Top Bros. ~Professorchaos 56, would you like to weigh in on the Police Supervisor?

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#991: Jul 28th 2019 at 4:21:07 AM

Anyone know where Chris Hooker's entry is ? I sent it to drafts and can't find it anywhere.

Edit: Never mind I found it.

Edited by Beast on Jul 28th 2019 at 6:28:59 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#992: Jul 28th 2019 at 5:36:28 AM

Since the Supervisor has the requisite approval, here's the writeup, along with a few edits to existing writeups

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jul 29th 2019 at 12:48:07 PM

Professorchaos56 Yet another overworked cashier from Trapped in my own head Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: I want you to want me
Yet another overworked cashier
#993: Jul 28th 2019 at 7:17:53 AM

It's a late one, but [tup] to the Supervisor.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#994: Jul 28th 2019 at 9:16:52 AM

So I know this trope isn't the same as Complete Monster but I'm wondering if being a comedic character is disqualifying ?

Like I'm not talking about a character who just says or does something that gets a laugh, but someone who can be but having comic quirks while being a Cal Hockley type, and ultimately being subjected to hilariou revenge pranks.

It's just I wonder if being too much of a Butt-Monkey makes up for how loathable someone is and if that makes up for it ?

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#995: Jul 28th 2019 at 9:31:45 AM

It depends how much emphasis is placed on their detestable qualities.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#996: Jul 28th 2019 at 9:35:29 AM

Like some times their dickery is played for laughs, mainly when they are consistently on the butt of a joke, but other times we see their dickery in a more serious "what an arrogant dickbag" light that makes the revenge pranks into karma.

And yes, I have someone in mind.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#997: Jul 28th 2019 at 9:46:28 AM

I think a full scale effortpost is in order.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#998: Jul 28th 2019 at 10:09:37 AM

I'll get to it as soon as I'm done re-watching the movie.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#999: Jul 28th 2019 at 3:25:54 PM

Van Wilder is a 2002 coming of age comedy, staring Ryan Reynolds the titular character. Van is Fun Personified and spent seven years in college, spending his time hosting parties, charities and becoming something of a pillar of the student body. When he meets and bonds with a hard working journalist student Gwen Pearson, the two take reflect on eachothers lives, with Van's story arc being about growing up and moving on, especially when Van's father cuts his college fund. But enough about Van, let's talk about his Foil and the films antagonist Richard Bagg.

Who is he ? What does he do ?

Richard Bagg is not only President of the Student Government, but the Fraternity Delta Iota Kappa. Despite this Richard isn't all that popular, probably because he's an arrogant and condescending twit who walks on and talks down everyone, especially his pledges. He is also an aspiring med student and Gwen's boyfriend. In general he bullies and humiliates them, such as using them as living targets in croquet, using ones glass eye as a foosball. These are Played for Laughs but point out that he in is in fact a dickbag. Anyways when Gwen is picked to be do a piece on Van, Richard gets paranoid that Van is starting to bond with his girlfriend (and seemingly jealous of Van's popularity with the student body). So of course Richard and Van start a little rivalry, mostly pulling pranks on eachother such as Richard secretly inviting Van to a get together at Gwen's house hoping to humiliate him with her seemingly stuck up parents, and social circle. To both Gwen and Richard's surprise, Van manages to win them over. Later Van subject Richard to his first revenge prank; sending him a basket of pastries made with a special cream curtesy of Van's bulldog.

To further sabotage Van and Gwen's relationship, Richard tells everyone he and Gwen are engaged, even asking Van to host a bachelor party to rub it in his face. Despite this, Gwen rejects the actual proposal and gets into an argument with him. In further retaliation, Richard and his friends sneak several kids into one of Van's parties and secretly get them all drunk and frame Van. Van arrested and nearly expelled for college before Van makes an appeal that he be forced to graduate (something he procrastinated for seven years). Richard calls Gwen, asking her to "relieve" him while he prepares for an exam and an admission interview for Northwestern Medical School (during which he passivley Slut Shames Gwen). When she tells him off, Richard instead has sex with his sorority friend Gennie. When Gwen finds out about Richard framing Van, she comes up with a revenge prank of her own, and spices his protein shake with laxative. During the final exam, Richard hurries through the test to go to the bathroom but he is pulled aside by the doctors he was supposed to interview. There he shits his medical school dreams goodbye.

Complexity or Evil Is-

Imma stop you right there and tell you there's nothing cool or complex about him. He is a Gaston or Cal Hockley stand in a teen comedy movie. His characterization is that he is an arrogant condescending student who only cares about his ambitions, status, who walks all over people and only cares about Gwen being his "bitch" (his actual words). Although while he is possessive of Gwen, he's not abusive to her beyond his passive slut shamming towards her over her supposed affair with Van; "I know you had a fling with Wilder. I just hope you used protection, I wouldn't our future children to be tainted. "Because mommy went slumming one night back in college!"

They make it pretty clear we are not supposed to like the guy.

However my concerns is how much a Hate Sink can be comedic. Yes some of his jerkass antics, like how he treats and bullies his pledges. However his moments of comedy are not to make him endearing or anything, but simply to show that he's a prick. He does have quirks where he makes nerdy references to anatomical jargon (which gets a little weird during his sex scene with Gwen) That being said, there is a factor of him being bit of a Butt-Monkey; he's consistently at the butt of the joke, be it his revenge pranks, him being told off all the time, the Running Gag of him having premature ejaculation problems. His first scene has him get embarrassed when his hazing of the the pledges backfires.

What I'm getting at is, can a hatable character really be a Hate Sink if they are constantly humiliated ? Like doesn't that kind of make up for them being a prick ?

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#1000: Jul 28th 2019 at 3:36:05 PM

Sure to Bagg and yay 1000 posts

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."

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