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Hate Sink cleanup

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The main concern of a Hate Sink is whether the narrative treats the character as someone intended to be despised.

The character in question must actually display detestable qualities, and be hated by other characters at least, or treated by the narrative like someone you are supposed to hate. The author's declared intent cements an example, but is not needed if the narrative itself treats the character as someone who is supposed to be hated.

A Hate Sink may have charismatic traits, a troubled past, or complexity, but in order for this trope to be in effect, such traits must be de-emphasized by the narrative in favour of their detestable traits.

Please note that we do not use Effort Posts.

Edited by gjjones on Dec 3rd 2020 at 7:43:25 AM

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#5227: Jan 18th 2024 at 1:14:57 PM

Cut Phasma and Zanza

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#5228: Jan 18th 2024 at 7:40:51 PM

I agree with cutting Zanza and Phasma.

commentspaee Since: May, 2023
#5229: Jan 20th 2024 at 7:37:44 PM

For Danganronpa V3: Killing Harmony fans, Korekiyo Shinguji is on here. But I am pretty sure Evil Is Cool applies and his personality is fake along with the two he killed, which makes him sympathetic by the slightest amount. Not by much, obviously, he's still the Ax-Crazy Serial Killer. Does he still count due to Word of God?

Not based on my opinions, by the way, what I believe is he should stay.

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#5230: Jan 20th 2024 at 7:59:17 PM

If we took the "Truman Show" Plot reveal argument too seriously, we'd nuke the majority of the pages about the game by that logic.

Regardless, he is noted repeatedly to be creepy and is revealed to be a Serial Killer with Villainous Incest who intentionally tried to kill the cast for insane reasons and acted condescending during the trial, compared to others the cast gives him no sympathy. I'd think he's not supposed to be liked.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
gjjones Musician/Composer from South Wales, New York Since: Jul, 2016
Musician/Composer
#5231: Jan 21st 2024 at 1:40:18 AM

While I've removed the Hate Sink trope from Ziemma and Minerva's sections from the Characters.Fairy Tail Saber Tooth page since some of its sub-tropes (i.e. Abusive Parent, Bad Boss, Dirty Coward and Jerk with a Heart of Jerk) are already listed in their sections, the Saber Tooth in General section has this:

  • Hate Sink: After Raven Tail is disbarred from the Grand Magic Games, Saber Tooth fully takes on the role of the guild meant to be rooted against. They get better after the Grand Magic Games.

Keep or remove?

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
SpaceProtagonist (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Abstaining
#5232: Jan 22nd 2024 at 6:22:21 AM

Alright, I've already discussed Tammy Gutermann on here, and some of the users wanted to keep her (although I personally disagree with that, finding her to be an entertaining and wasted character more than anything). But if we're going to keep her there, can we at least update her entry?

"it's implied that she also murdered another well-liked character, Squanchy, in the same episode, all while getting away with it unscathed and scot-free."

Okay, A) Season 7 revealed Squanchy was very much alive, so this doesn't hold up anymore. And B) the second half implies she's a Karma Houdini who never faces comeuppance. Whoever wrote that clearly hasn't seen the Season 4 finale (or simply forgot to update it since then). Let's just say... her Karma Houdini Warranty expired big time.

Let me know what you think of her.

Edited by SpaceProtagonist on Jan 22nd 2024 at 9:22:38 AM

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#5233: Jan 22nd 2024 at 6:14:56 PM

For Kork, yeah... if took the premise too seriously? Tsumugi wouldn't be a Complete Monster, hell, you could make the argument in that regard that Junko herself is far too silly to count as a Monster despite her crimes because the executions are not taken seriously and usually Over The Top Played for Laughs,it's literally a game about adolescents and young adults killing each other for the audience's amusement and occasional catharsis whether being forced to or not. But we take Danganronpa with a grain of salt here, yeah its silly and over the top but these people are real in game (mostly) innocents being killed or forced to kill to survive. That's the long answer. He's not going anywhere. As for Tsumugi herself, anyone think they're less of a Scrappy and more of a Hate Sink given they aren't Evil Is Cool in the slightest? I mean, they aren't a well liked Mastermind but the audience is not supposed to like them and as silly as some of the executions are, they're fronted by Monokuma and not the Mastermind. Yes to cutting Phasma and Zanza too.

Edited by Klavice on Jan 22nd 2024 at 6:16:49 AM

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#5234: Jan 22nd 2024 at 8:29:42 PM

As mentioned before, it's best to unpack Evil Is Cool with specific attributes as it makes a poor argument. Evil Is Cool is subjective while Hate Sink is not, if a character has appealing qualities it's best to spell them out.

Regarding Danganronoa V3, not sure if Tsumugi is comedic enough after the reveal, but they have Near-Villain Victory, The Determinator and a Graceful Loser, while also not being the leader of the organization.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
cwallace135 Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: Singularity
#5235: Jan 23rd 2024 at 7:22:54 AM

Hello! Hope you are doing well! I said that Zanza should be cut, and people agreed. However, he is still on the page. I would remove him myself, but I am suspended. Is it okay if I ask someone else to remove Zanza? Thank you!

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#5236: Jan 24th 2024 at 8:30:58 PM

I'll remove him if you can direct me to the page he's on. And yeah [up][up] right about V3's mastermind. But hold up, if they are a Graceful Loser, and I did have some issues with their effortpost, does that make them incompatible with the Complete Monster trope, because a CM cannot be a Graceful Loser as that's showing respect which is a redeeming quality.

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#5237: Jan 24th 2024 at 10:30:05 PM

[up] That's for Complete Monster cleanup to decide if losing will to live after plan got derailed and letting everyone go is a negating quality, and last time I've brought a character just follows an evil organization they got invalidated due to not having full responsiblity for their actions.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
GenericGuy2000 I’m here, I guess. from a generic place. Since: Jul, 2021 Relationship Status: Cast away
I’m here, I guess.
#5238: Jan 25th 2024 at 5:13:54 PM

So, I'm reading through One Piece and I just finished the Enies Lobby Arc, and I'm kinda curious about the reasoning here for removing this entry.

The reasoning was that she loves her own daughter, but the flashbacks never present that in a sympathetic way, since that is only shown to emphasize to the audience how badly she treats Robin, similar to Uncle Vernon's love of Dudley being used to contrast how awful he is to Harry. The few scenes she has center on how she neglects, overworks, and verbally abuses her niece. I think that she would still keep given this part of the thread's header.

  • A Hate Sink may have charismatic traits, a troubled past, or complexity, but in order for this trope to be in effect, such traits must be de-emphasized by the narrative in favour of their detestable traits.

I’m gonna put some Gloom in your eye.
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#5239: Jan 25th 2024 at 7:30:23 PM

On Hazbin Hotel's Main Index I found this on Adam's sheet.

  • Hate Sink: Not as worst Valentino, but is more of an unpleasant jerk to Charlie and an unrepentant sexist.

Bro is a world-class asshole but I think he is too Laughably Evil to count. And also he had an awesome Villain Song

Edited by Snoketrope on Jan 25th 2024 at 7:30:46 AM

Bow to the Prototype
Moroaica Since: Aug, 2017
#5240: Jan 25th 2024 at 7:33:39 PM

I just removed it. Adam has the same issue with Mammon he's just too goofy to be a Hate Sink. They're practically the same guy.

AudioSpeaks2 Since: Apr, 2022
#5241: Jan 25th 2024 at 7:33:53 PM

[up][up] Remove Adam

He's both Laughably Evil and Evil Is Cool

Is douchebaggery is very much Played for Laughs and his sadism is meant to be infectious to watch.

Compare that to Valentino, whose actions are taken seriously at all times barring his tantrum in episode 2, but even that scene shows how pathetic and psychopathic he is.

Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Jan 25th 2024 at 11:34:04 PM

AudioSpeaks2 Since: Apr, 2022
#5242: Jan 25th 2024 at 11:38:36 PM

It seems, King Nilbog re-included an entry for Adam again.

Permission to remove without causing some edit war?

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#5243: Jan 26th 2024 at 2:24:35 AM

Cut Adam, guy is a dick, but to much of a riot and awesome singer.

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#5244: Jan 26th 2024 at 2:26:59 AM

Even with new episode's reveals, he still kind of Laughably Evil.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Moroaica Since: Aug, 2017
#5245: Jan 26th 2024 at 3:10:19 AM

I won't remove it again bc I don't want to edit war, but I'll just restate my agreement. Adam is way too jokey, hammy and entertaining to be a hate sink. He's pretty much a walking CMOF.

Do we want to preventively discuss Lute in case someone adds it to her? Shes closer to this than Adam but I think her role as The Comically Serious, her stoic badass demanor, and acting as somewhat of a straight man to Adam are all preventers.

AudioSpeaks2 Since: Apr, 2022
#5246: Jan 26th 2024 at 3:30:32 AM

[up] Yeah, Lute is as comedic and definitely as cool as (if not moreso than) Adam even though that might not seem obvious, she's also Evil Is Cool due to the way she holds herself. Especially in Episode 6 where she's just badass during "You Didn't Know".

The only true Hate Sink in Hazbin currently is Valentino

Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Jan 26th 2024 at 7:31:11 PM

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#5247: Jan 26th 2024 at 3:33:27 AM

I've went ahead since everyone're in agreement.

Edited by Amonimus on Jan 26th 2024 at 2:33:56 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Mattman_the_Storyteller Since: Aug, 2018
#5248: Jan 26th 2024 at 1:52:41 PM

A lot of genuinely villainous characters in Talentless Nana have the Hate Sink trope, with one notable exception. Should this character qualify for the trope using this description I came up with?

  • Yuuka Sasaki is a seemingly friendly tomboy who claims to have the Talent of Super-Strength and is dating the necromancer Shinji Kazama. However, it's revealed that Yuuka is the true necromancer and is actually a psychotic Yandere who murdered Shinji and reanimated him as a corpse puppet to mold him into her ideal boyfriend, all because Shinji rejected her advances and is actually going out with another girl. Yuuka is such a deranged individual that Nana, despite planning to kill her even if she was innocent, is noticeably disgusted and disturbed with her to the point she kills Yuuka without even bothering to let her finish her Motive Rant.

[down] Does that mean no?

Edited by Mattman_the_Storyteller on Jan 26th 2024 at 3:05:13 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#5249: Jan 26th 2024 at 2:38:46 PM

She’s probably fine on memory.

GenericGuy2000 I’m here, I guess. from a generic place. Since: Jul, 2021 Relationship Status: Cast away

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