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Hate Sink cleanup

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The main concern of a Hate Sink is whether the narrative treats the character as someone intended to be despised.

The character in question must actually display detestable qualities, and be hated by other characters at least, or treated by the narrative like someone you are supposed to hate. The author's declared intent cements an example, but is not needed if the narrative itself treats the character as someone who is supposed to be hated.

A Hate Sink may have charismatic traits, a troubled past, or complexity, but in order for this trope to be in effect, such traits must be de-emphasized by the narrative in favour of their detestable traits.

Please note that we do not use Effort Posts.

Edited by gjjones on Dec 3rd 2020 at 7:43:25 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#476: May 27th 2019 at 7:00:30 AM

Definitive yes on that piece of shit.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#477: May 27th 2019 at 7:00:54 AM

@username2527 Just doing an EP on both of these bastards in case if they're ended up getting deleted. They're easy keeps for sure but yeah...

Will wait for more votes for The Unknown Man and Toomoo

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on May 27th 2019 at 9:01:29 PM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#478: May 27th 2019 at 7:02:55 AM

My writeup for Zola

Zola Axlberg is one of the captains for the First Allies but ends up being a horrible Serial Rapist of the highest order. She first appears molesting Hilda by groping her, commenting that Ange will be her prey. Later in the episode, she attempts to have sex with Ange which she does not consent too, slapping out her eyeball. Later in the story, several characters state that they were pretending to be in love with Zola so they can escape Arzenal. When she dies from one of the Dragons eating her, no one in the show or audience sympathizes with her at all.

[tup] Toomoo

Edited by ReynTime250 on May 27th 2019 at 3:03:40 PM

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#479: May 27th 2019 at 7:05:09 AM

Ok well [tup][tup][tup] Tomoo (and Unknown Man).

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#480: May 27th 2019 at 8:40:20 AM

[tup]Anyone I missed.

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#481: May 27th 2019 at 1:30:21 PM

Okay, thanks for the feedback, I've added the following modified entry to the Drafts sandbox:

  • RWBY: Cinder Fall displays numerous negative traits that put her at odds even with her allies. She 'teaches' Emerald her place by slapping her when Emerald tries to question Cinder's decisions; when Jaune confronts her about Pyrrha's murder, Cinder mocks his lack of ability to protect the people he cares about then tries to make him suffer just for having the audacity to try and defeat her; after unleashing the Grimm and White Fang upon Vale, she watches the citizens dying with undisguised pleasure. Cinder's lack of loyalty causes Mercury to call Emerald deluded for being so loyal to a woman who doesn't return it and even estranges her from Salem, whose orders she is only willing to follow until they conflict with her own desire to kill Ruby. Cinder is self-aware, revels in her cruelty and shows no higher ideals, not even in distorted forms. Beneath her facade of a strong warrior, Cinder is a petty, sadistic bully who needs others to suffer so that she can feel powerful.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#482: May 27th 2019 at 1:49:51 PM

Looking good.

IukaSylvie from Kyoto, Japan Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#483: May 27th 2019 at 5:47:36 PM

[tup] Tomoo (which is the correct spelling) and the Unknown Man. By the way, "resulted in", not "resulted on", would be grammatically correct. I think Elfen seriously needs to use Grammarly.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#484: May 27th 2019 at 6:16:40 PM

[tup]Tomoo.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
MichaelSar Since: Feb, 2019
#485: May 28th 2019 at 5:37:00 AM

Would Priya from The Big Bang Theory qualify as a Hate Sink? It seems pretty clear to me that we're supposed to hate her for "stealing Leonard from Penny", and she gets derailed into an unlikable jerk pretty quickly. I think that Emily from Friends might count as well for similar reasons, especially since the other characters hate her as well.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#486: May 28th 2019 at 6:52:29 AM

The effortpost template can be found here. You need to effortpost them in order for us to get a clear picture.

I have edited the post in order to make it suitable for a thread header, explaining the main concern of the trope, and the nuances of the trope's entries.

Edited by SkyCat32 on May 28th 2019 at 1:35:16 PM

Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#487: May 28th 2019 at 11:41:48 AM

I saw the holler about pinning the template to the top of the thread, but that can only be done in the first post in the thread, so the OP is going to have to be either replaced with that content or it needs to be added in with the OP's content.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#488: May 28th 2019 at 11:46:57 AM

I have messaged gjjones to request his replacement of the original post with the FAQ.

Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#489: May 28th 2019 at 11:58:01 AM

Do people like Dolores Janes Umbridge and King Joffrey I Baratheon need EP's and can they be grandfathered?

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#490: May 28th 2019 at 12:03:18 PM

May be a good idea to EP them just in case.

gjjones Musician/Composer from South Wales, New York Since: Jul, 2016
Musician/Composer
#491: May 28th 2019 at 2:01:22 PM

Just hollered my post to make it a header as per the PM. Thanks.

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#492: May 28th 2019 at 2:05:30 PM

Haman the Agagite's name is missing. It just says "the Agagite"

gjjones Musician/Composer from South Wales, New York Since: Jul, 2016
Musician/Composer
#493: May 28th 2019 at 2:46:40 PM

Duly noted. Changed wording.

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#494: May 28th 2019 at 3:31:37 PM

Thanks, G.

Tomorrow I intend, without promise, to effort-post a Jack Reacher candidate in this thread. Nothing like an obstructive bureaucrat.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#495: May 28th 2019 at 8:20:34 PM

Kind of contemplating on whether to discuss Josh Tyler from Peele's Us. I mean, he's not evil, but he is a prick who pokes fun at Gabe and his family because they were a little short on the "American Dream." He is hostile with his wife especially when their Tethered break in by ignoring his wife at first and not going to see if there was anyone on the back patio. Unlike with characters like Red who is a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds who has legitimate reasons for her actions, or the Fake!Adelaide who while having crossed the Moral Event Horizon years ago did it in an understandable way. Josh, however, is an asshole. Either him or his Tethered.

gjjones Musician/Composer from South Wales, New York Since: Jul, 2016
Musician/Composer
#496: May 28th 2019 at 9:02:49 PM

[up][up] No problem.

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#497: May 29th 2019 at 9:27:51 AM

While I'm waiting to gain the motivation to do my CM writeups for Gallagher (who I'm thinking of proposing in this thread) and Anapa, I'll do an EP of a candidate of a different sort.

What is the work?

American History X is a movie about a former neo-Nazi, Derek Vineyard, who is released from prison, and trying to prevent his younger brother from following in his footsteps.

Who is Cameron Alexander, and what did he do?

Cameron Alexander is the leader of several neo-Nazi gangs, among them, the Disciples of Christ, the gang that Derek was a part of. He corrupts impressionable youths, either planting racist beliefs in their heads or feeding into ones they already had and making them that much worse. For example, Derek went from hearing his father rant about how it was unfair that white firefighters were laid off in favor of black firefighters to raiding a grocery store run by people of color and assaulting the employees.

While Derek is in prison, he tries to groom Danny, Derek's younger brother, who's already adopted his brother's former beliefs. Later on, at a party, Derek confronts him and tells him he's taking Danny out of the gang. Needless to say, Cameron doesn't react well. At this point, it's revealed that he really doesn't give much of a flying fuck about his own followers, and that in one of his previous gangs, he snitched on them to get a reduced prison sentence.

In a deleted scene, he goes to a burger joint with Seth, the insecure Fat Idiot of the gang, in hopes to try and make him his new Dragon. While outside, he sees a homeless veteran, and almost seems to sympathize with his plight ... but then makes a remark that if he were black (obviously, he doesn't say "black"), he'd "get a meal", and tells Seth to give him some money. I'll talk about why that's not mitigating later. In the joint, he jokes to Seth about how Derek was raped in prison, and an interracial couple walks in. Here, we get to see him at what might very well be his worst, where he and Seth run the couple out.

What makes them personally despicable?

Well, as said before, he sold out his own men in exchange for a reduced prison sentence. And that might imply that he's posturing on some level and really just doing it all for the money. In the aforementioned deleted scene, he boasts about how he's constantly running out of propaganda to sell on the Internet. Even if his racism is all a front, it's a damn convincing one and it's certainly caused a lot of trouble.

Evil Is Cool traits? Complexity? Freudian Excuse?

Okay, American History X is notorious for utilizing Do Not Do This Cool Thing, especially how a lot of the racist arguments are never really refuted (at least not strongly), and the Disciples of Christ tend to be a prime accidental example of Evil Is Cool every now and then. Cameron, on the other hand, is not cool. He's a contemptible, hateful, cowardly old man who might act like A Father to His Men, but will throw his own followers under the bus if it suits him. And regarding the incident with the veteran, that's more about him trying to spread his hateful ideology than it is about him having any real sympathy to speak of. Really hard to see that as "cool", let alone complex. And he's never shown to have any justification for being such a bastard, either. Furthermore, the movie's whole message is "hate is baggage", but we're never given a reason not to hate him.

Verdict?

I think he's a solid keeper.

Edited by Stellarvore on May 29th 2019 at 11:55:45 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#498: May 29th 2019 at 9:41:16 AM

[tup]Cameron Alexander.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#499: May 29th 2019 at 9:59:46 AM

Anyways, since people have a bit of a problem regarding my own grammar, I might going to bring several of my own write-ups to Get Help With English Here thread forum to compromise as I feel it's risky for me to use Grammarly but I'll see what I can do... EP, I'm not sure though but hopefully this can be a good compromise thank you. :)

And sure to the above

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on May 30th 2019 at 12:00:45 AM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#500: May 29th 2019 at 10:20:02 AM

Thank you Elfen.

Anyways, I don't make any promises, but I intend on rereading my Reacher book tonight. Whether I effortpost the character today depends on when I get home.


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