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Hate Sink cleanup

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The main concern of a Hate Sink is whether the narrative treats the character as someone intended to be despised.

The character in question must actually display detestable qualities, and be hated by other characters at least, or treated by the narrative like someone you are supposed to hate. The author's declared intent cements an example, but is not needed if the narrative itself treats the character as someone who is supposed to be hated.

A Hate Sink may have charismatic traits, a troubled past, or complexity, but in order for this trope to be in effect, such traits must be de-emphasized by the narrative in favour of their detestable traits.

Please note that we do not use Effort Posts.

Edited by gjjones on Dec 3rd 2020 at 7:43:25 AM

TheWrongOne41 The Clown is in town (*he*/she/they) from Somewhere, Mexico Since: May, 2022 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
The Clown is in town (*he*/she/they)
#4026: Jul 10th 2022 at 1:28:19 PM

Everyone has had some detestable qualities at some point in the show. Heck i actually consider her one of the "better ones" in the family.

I'm going to delete that part if you don't mind.

Edited by TheWrongOne41 on Jul 10th 2022 at 1:52:03 AM

Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice. (also i'm fluid now)
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#4027: Jul 10th 2022 at 8:56:59 PM

Still didn't get to read all the stuff on Promising Young Woman yet, but the thing about both Ryan and Al compared to Joey—asshole misogynist friend who convinces him to cover up Cassie's murder and then runs when the police arrive—is that they're each meant to be somewhat identifiable even while each represents how awful men can be to women whether they know they're doing it or not and each is a different type for that too.

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#4028: Jul 10th 2022 at 10:58:37 PM

@Beast

I think they count, it sounds like the redeeming features are basically there to make them scarier or demonstrate 'Real People like this exist IRL' rather then get the audience to like them in some way.

Bow to the Prototype
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#4029: Jul 11th 2022 at 3:25:39 PM

Ryan and Al are still given human traits and yeah, they're each probably not meant to be likable. I could see them each being this too in that case.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#4030: Jul 12th 2022 at 10:25:58 AM

Here's the entries I wrote for them.

  • Promising Young Woman: Among this film's deconstructions, one of which is that of the Nice Guy, especially in compliance to rape culture.
    • Alex Monroe was a popular and beloved med student at Cassie and Nina’s college. So much so that when he raped a drunk Nina in front of his cheering friends, the school did nothing about it. While Nina and Cassie’s lives went down a spiral, with Nina killing herself, Alex would go on to be a successful doctor, surrounded by friends, family, and is engaged to a loving fiance. When a vengeful Cassie confronts Alex, he pathetically whines that it was not his fault, cowardly claiming that being accused of rape is every man’s worse nightmare; when he overpowers and kills Cassie, his only concern is how this incident will ruin his life. Luckily, due to a Thanatos Gambit by Cassie, both his murder of her, and his rape of Nina are exposed as he’s arrested at his wedding.
    • Ryan Cooper spends much of the movie presenting himself as a genuinely loving boyfriend, and successful doctor, whose relationship with Cassie helps her heal her from her trauma. Which makes it heartbreaking for Cassie when she discovers Ryan was a witness to Nina’s rape, laughing at it as it occurred. When Cassie confronts Ryan, Ryan only cares about his reputation being ruined, and tries love bombing Cassie before telling her to forgive him. When she refuses, Ryan accuses Cassie of being self righteous and a failure. When Cassie goes missing, he lies about her being mentally disturbed, before attending Alex’s wedding. When Alex is arrested, it’s implied that Ryan’s involvement will be exposed and his reputation will be ruined.
    • Joey, a friend of Alex and Ryan's, has none of their seemingly charming qualities, instead being openly skeevy and sexist, with a sick sense of humour that puts even Alex off. He had a hand in Nina’s rape, filming the incident in front of the cheering and jeering of their friends. Attending Alex’s bachelor party, when Alex kills Cassie, Joey coddles Alex by saying it’s not his fault, before helping dispose of Cassie’s body in the woods. Despite his claims of friendship and loyalty, when the police arrive at the wedding to arrest Alex, Joey is seen running away, leaving him to deal with the fallout.

Edited by Beast on Jul 12th 2022 at 10:26:50 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#4031: Jul 13th 2022 at 9:21:39 PM

Starting to wonder if we need an MB Versus HS sandbox. Haha. The entries look good though. The ACI for Ryan there didn't fit the ACI trope, so I wrote a new one that did.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jul 13th 2022 at 9:52:52 AM

Furygildeman Since: Nov, 2017
#4032: Jul 18th 2022 at 9:00:20 AM

Found this in the Stranger Things page.

  • Jason himself is a big one, too. He's a Jerk Jock with a massive ego who immediately blames Eddie for Chrissy's death, rallying first his fellow jocks, and later the whole town, against Eddie and the Hellfire Club. During the season's climax, when Lucas and Max are in the Creel house attic, he shows up with a gun to confront Lucas, refuses to listen to reason, and is directly responsible for Max not getting pulled out of Vecna's clutches in time, leading to the apocalyptic Downer Ending of the season. His getting painfully bisected by the opening rifts is, if anything, inadequate punishment for everything he did.

Now I hate Jason an he’s a destestable character, but there is some degree of sympathy and when he sees Max all catatonic his priority is waking her up. He’s horribly misguided and his behavior is terrible but I don’t think he counts as a Hate Sink

CyberController Blitzy.... from Pride Ring Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: I don't mind being locked in this eternal maze!
Blitzy....
#4033: Jul 18th 2022 at 9:07:44 AM

Yeah, he’s not actually evil, just extremely misguided. Cut it.

Just made a server on discord.Come join me.
Furygildeman Since: Nov, 2017
#4034: Jul 18th 2022 at 9:35:46 AM

I think Vecna counts but I don’t want to fall into the hole of designating him that because he’s a CM. It’s my personal analysis of the character and I’d like to suggest him and see if people agree. He’s not exactly charming overall and if Mindflayer counted then the guy who was actually the mindflayer the whole time might.

RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#4035: Jul 18th 2022 at 9:41:06 AM

[up](x3) Cut it.


[up][up] It's actually possible a non-villain to be a Hate Sink, which was actually stated on the main page before this was retooled into a Super-Trope (many details were removed when that happened).

Furygildeman Since: Nov, 2017
#4036: Jul 18th 2022 at 9:59:17 AM

Yeah but once again Jason has a degree of Sympathy to him and also some redeeming qualities as shown with his concern with Max. He’s July’s t wrong about everything and handles it in a hates me way but he’s not a hate sink

RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#4037: Jul 18th 2022 at 10:01:38 AM

[up]I'm aware. I also agreed to cut it and I didn't say he was a villain, if that's what you're getting at.

Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#4038: Jul 18th 2022 at 11:51:04 AM

Speaking of Stranger things, Troy (incidentally the one in the pic) and James... Troy is an easy keeper in the show itself but the tie-in comics The Bully gives them both Sympathetic P.O.V. where their friendschip is portrayed as genuine and we see that Troy has an abusive dad.

Should they be cut and can they stay on the ground that the comics are B canon?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#4039: Jul 18th 2022 at 12:16:35 PM

Isn't Vecna a normal horror movie villain? I don't think he really does anything that's particularly hateable for that genre compared to like hundreds of similar villains?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#4040: Jul 19th 2022 at 2:20:36 AM

Jason is played as more of a Tragic Villain. He becomes a bad person but he is meant to still be complex and such.

Mind Flayer did not count, we talked about that a few times here. Someone just kept re-adding him like Homelander. Vecna I do not think counts. He is meant to be more of the 'scary' pure evil, he is designed to evoke the classic slasher villains and such.

With Troy I think you could just say something along the lines of 'the comics however go in a different direction' and such.

Edited by Snoketrope on Jul 19th 2022 at 4:57:53 AM

Bow to the Prototype
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#4041: Jul 19th 2022 at 8:24:25 AM

Does Angela count for this? Other than potential audience empathy due to being badly hurt and breaking down in tears when El smacks her with the roller skate, her behavior beforehand is pretty reprehensible.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jul 19th 2022 at 8:24:36 AM

Furygildeman Since: Nov, 2017
#4042: Jul 19th 2022 at 2:34:10 PM

She counts. She’s clearly meant to be hated. I think overly so. The Duffler brothers really go full Stephen King with their bullies. Like I’ve known bullies like that but they aren’t everywhere

Edited by Furygildeman on Jul 19th 2022 at 2:34:43 AM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#4043: Jul 19th 2022 at 10:53:41 PM

It is possible that moment she gets the concussion and totally flat out cries makes her Unintentionally Sympathetic though or is that just me?

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jul 19th 2022 at 10:55:02 AM

RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#4044: Jul 19th 2022 at 11:17:24 PM

[up][up]I agree with keeping her.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#4045: Jul 20th 2022 at 7:28:22 AM

Jason's an easy cut and here's an annoying one:

From Juda/Yuda's character sheet on Fist of the North Star:

  • Hate Sink: He is a sadistic and repulsive scumbag who rivals Jagi in regards to this trope. Even when Juda declares Rei to be stronger and more beautiful than him when he dies in Rei's arms, it does absolutely nothing to make Juda more sympathetic or mitigate all the horrible things he has done.

Much like with CM, his death scene takes him right out... it's garbage writing but after all the rape, kidnapping and torment of Rei his last words are done with full grace, he accepts he's second best and pretty well professes his love to the latter and it's treated with an absurd amount of sympathy from the narrative. Likewise his arc tries to build him up as an audacious planner full of schemes and ready to throw down even if he'll fight dirty. Yuda is The Scrappy on steroids but not this trope.

Also I concur Venca doesn't count... he's a disgusting asshole but when you're the Big Bad, it's inevitable much of your villainy gets tied into moving the plot forward. As has been said Angela's a much better example.

Edited by 43110 on Jul 20th 2022 at 10:30:38 AM

RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#4046: Jul 20th 2022 at 8:01:42 AM

[up]I'd say he's a subverted example then. Granted, I'm not familiar with the work[lol].

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#4047: Jul 20th 2022 at 8:05:16 AM

I'll reiterate, for all the atrocities he commits there's a fair amount of time devoted to his cunning and audacity; even prior to his death. He's not meant to be hated before anything else can be note about him, just horribly written.

RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#4048: Jul 20th 2022 at 8:10:15 AM

Ok and I agree to cutting him then.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#4049: Jul 20th 2022 at 8:32:29 AM

Could a Hate Sink get an Unintentionally Sympathetic entry too? If so, I feel Angela getting one would be appropriate. While I get it's supposed to definitely be satisfying when El hits her after all the bullshit she put her through, the fact that Angela's so badly hurt and distraught could suck the fun out of seeing that though.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jul 20th 2022 at 8:40:18 AM

RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#4050: Jul 20th 2022 at 8:46:15 AM

[up]To answer your question, I don't see why not.


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