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Hate Sink cleanup

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The main concern of a Hate Sink is whether the narrative treats the character as someone intended to be despised.

The character in question must actually display detestable qualities, and be hated by other characters at least, or treated by the narrative like someone you are supposed to hate. The author's declared intent cements an example, but is not needed if the narrative itself treats the character as someone who is supposed to be hated.

A Hate Sink may have charismatic traits, a troubled past, or complexity, but in order for this trope to be in effect, such traits must be de-emphasized by the narrative in favour of their detestable traits.

Please note that we do not use Effort Posts.

Edited by gjjones on Dec 3rd 2020 at 7:43:25 AM

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#3951: Mar 29th 2022 at 5:08:15 PM

Dropping by to report on something I found on Friday Night Funkin': Mario's Madness regarding Racist Mario:

TLDR, he never shows any of these characteristics except being a jackass, and all he does in the mod is comically scream at Boyfriend. He shows up, sings and leaves. All of this comes from the animation he originated from, not the mod.

Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Mar 29th 2022 at 5:09:17 AM

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#3952: Mar 30th 2022 at 9:41:53 AM

I'd like to ask about a removal and, more broadly, about this trope is defined. An entry on Disney Frollo's page listing him as this trope was removed with the edit reason:

[quoteblock]Frollo is under Abusive Parents, The Fundamentalist, Jerk with a Heart of Jerk, A Nazi by Any Other Name and The Sociopath to name a few all of which are subtropes to Hate Sink.[/quoteblock]

Are these really "sub-tropes"? I've seen at least a few characters be some of these without qualifying for Hate Sink status, so I'm not sure if that's the right terminology to use, or if it was right to remove the entry.

I hope I'm not wasting your time with this question, I just felt like I should ask about it.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#3953: Mar 30th 2022 at 11:33:34 AM

I think all of those things are things you can be without being designed for audience hatred specifically. The Sociopath is labeled as one but should be removed; not sure about the others.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#3954: Apr 9th 2022 at 4:47:43 AM

Does anyone know anything about this fanfic? The HS entries seem ZCE to me, and have potential contradictions or sub-tropes on their character pages.

Fanfic.Super RWBY Sisters

  • Hate Sink:
    • Dark Ruby is easily one of the most hated characters in the series due to her evil actions against the heroes especially Ruby Rose.
    • Seryu Ubiquitous also counts this as well given her actions such attempting to murder both Weiss and Esdeath on two separate occasions.
    • Dimentio becomes this due to his actions in breaking and emotionally hurting Paper Ruby.
    • Damian gained a lot of hate after his horrible actions to Marnie.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Apr 9th 2022 at 5:27:20 AM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#3955: Apr 9th 2022 at 10:23:14 AM

I kinda feel like we should discuss in more detail what should be subtropes as a lot of them seem like just Random negative traits

Asshole Victim I can see, Viler New Villain, Embodiment of Vice I guess I can see, Heel Works as well.

Bow to the Prototype
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#3956: Apr 9th 2022 at 10:59:04 AM

We actually had a massive discussion on the TRS thread. The ones that don't fit the "character added to be hated" criteria were added later.

Asshole Victim is in the TRS itself, btw...

Edited by WarJay77 on Apr 9th 2022 at 2:01:15 PM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#3957: Apr 9th 2022 at 12:28:26 PM

Ah, understood

Bow to the Prototype
Javertshark13 Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
#3958: Apr 12th 2022 at 4:49:42 PM

I was wondering if the aliens from the 2005 War of the Worlds film may count. The tripods may have a certain coolness factor, but they're clearly meant to be horrifying and repulsive to the audience, as they go on a planet-wide genocide, kill crowds of defenseless people, target children, and harvest humans for their blood. The film also omits any of the book's dialogue giving them sympathy, simply describing them as envious towards humans.

The only thing I'm not sure about is the screenwriter, David Koepp, said if the film was from their perspective, the audience might have sympathy for them, but it doesn't change the fact that the film is shown from the humans' POV, and all we see of the aliens makes them seem horrific and unsympathetic. Thoughts?

Edited by Javertshark13 on Apr 12th 2022 at 2:37:55 PM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#3959: Apr 12th 2022 at 5:07:51 PM

Try looking at the subtropes first, because some of them might fit better.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#3960: Apr 12th 2022 at 9:34:55 PM

Yeah, I don't think they qualify-they don't really provoke a hate response, precisely because they lack so much characterization.

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#3961: Apr 27th 2022 at 11:33:57 AM

Found this on Emperor Belos page

"* Hate Sink: Belos is a truly deplorable man. He pretends to be a benevolent messenger from the Titan, but he's actually a human witch hunter whose Fantastic Racism is so great that he plans on committing genocide of the entire Boiling Isles simply to "save humanity from evil". In the past he was a Serial Killer of witches and demons and it's implied he even killed his own brother when he fell in love with a witch. He then cloned said brother to serve as his Golden Guard only to mercilessly kill the clone when he rebelled, and repeated that process numerous times over the years, to the point that the Collector thinks Belos creates grimwalkers simply to kill them."

Belos is a depraved, sociopathic Monster who is looking to be a solid CM candidate, but I think Evil Is Cool is 100% in play, with Matthew Rhys excellent performance and such, I think he is meant to be more intimidating then loathsome, I could see arguments against that, that he embodies bigotry and abuse and such, but for the time being I do not think he counts.

Bow to the Prototype
gjjones Musician/Composer from South Wales, New York Since: Jul, 2016
Musician/Composer
#3962: Apr 28th 2022 at 8:31:04 PM

Not too long ago, a Hate Sink entry was added into the Characters.Who Framed Roger Rabbit Judge Doom page. I removed it since it was already covered by the other sub-tropes like Dirty Coward and Bad Boss, but it was readded again.

Given that, should it be cut?

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
BrianKT Since: Jan, 2020
#3963: Apr 28th 2022 at 9:12:18 PM

The reason I re-added it is because other villains such as Scar and Lotso each have a Hate Sink entry along with a Bad Boss and Dirty Coward entry as well. So either those Hate Sink entries should be removed too or they all stay.

Edited by BrianKT on Apr 28th 2022 at 9:15:52 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#3964: Apr 28th 2022 at 10:20:04 PM

[up][up] Honestly, I'd personally keep that for Belos: Evil Is Cool technically was in display back in season 1, but given the scopes of how nightmarishly atrocious his actions are, I think that kills the EIC aspect. But that is strictly my opinion and I won't be opposed if others don't agree.

gjjones Musician/Composer from South Wales, New York Since: Jul, 2016
Musician/Composer
#3965: Apr 29th 2022 at 4:21:01 PM

[up][up] Unfortunately, add-delete-add is edit warring.

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#3966: Apr 29th 2022 at 4:27:19 PM

And the correct answer is "those entries should be removed too".

And, well, the other correct answer is that the subtrope list has been overstuffed by people who weren't part of the original subtrope discussion, and a lot of the "subtropes" just aren't. But you still need to talk to us.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#3967: Apr 29th 2022 at 6:32:11 PM

[up][up][up] Agreed, Belos can stay. I personally want to punch him in the face after seeing Hollow Mind.

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#3968: Apr 29th 2022 at 9:34:51 PM

Understood, fine with it personally.

Bow to the Prototype
Furygildeman Since: Nov, 2017
#3969: May 2nd 2022 at 6:05:09 AM

Someone listed Loraine and RJ as Hate Sinks in X page. When RJ was listed I wasn’t quite sure but I could definitely see it. But then someone listed Lorraine and also but her as an Asshole Victim and example of Jerks Are Worse Than Villains and an exclusion from The Woobie and marked her death as satisfying and deserved. And these seems more like an example of complaining about characters you don’t like because Lorraine while flawed didn’t seem like a Hate Sink and her death came off as too harsh and sympathetic. Is there anyone else who has seen the film who can comment on this and maybe help clean that up?

Edited by Furygildeman on May 2nd 2022 at 9:56:47 AM

Furygildeman Since: Nov, 2017
#3970: May 4th 2022 at 6:52:50 AM

Okay so I guess I’m alone in this

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#3971: May 4th 2022 at 7:26:13 AM

Most likely nobody (active) saw X and have no idea about the case.

Edited by Amonimus on May 4th 2022 at 5:26:42 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
gjjones Musician/Composer from South Wales, New York Since: Jul, 2016
Musician/Composer
#3972: May 4th 2022 at 7:56:11 AM

I think the entry on Lorraine can be removed because of the complaining.

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
GenericGuy2000 I’m here, I guess. from a generic place. Since: Jul, 2021 Relationship Status: Cast away
I’m here, I guess.
#3973: May 5th 2022 at 8:02:50 AM

So, on the page for Danganronpa — Junko Enoshima, Junko herself is listed as this.

  • Hate Sink: Even when she puts up an act of being Laughably Evil, she really doesn't have any goal beyond despair for its own sake. She gets billions of people killed, sends the world into an apocalypse, and forces other people to kill each other in Deadly Games. Junko does all of this for the sake of being a Hope Crusher, believing that despair is all-powerful and that Humans Are Bastards. Junko even personally kills her own sister and her own boyfriend, all because it would make her feel despair. She doesn't have a Freudian Excuse for any of this behavior; she's just a monster who loves hurting people because it feeds into her twisted world view. All of this was done with the intention of making her into a loathsome villain that the audience would hate.

Junko feels way too much like a Love to Hate villain to be this, and the entry just talks about how evil she is which isn't relevant when the character is meant to be entertaining on top of it.

I’m gonna put some Gloom in your eye.
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#3974: May 5th 2022 at 8:15:52 AM

I don't think she counts. While her mental state is really terrifying, she's also meant to be funny and charismatic.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#3975: May 5th 2022 at 8:57:02 AM

RJ stays. He was peeved that his girlfriend took part in his film and had the gall to leave her. Lorraine is by no means a HS.

A hypocrite, maybe, but that amounts to someone complaining about the character with Baz logistics.

Edited by AustinDR on May 5th 2022 at 8:59:56 AM


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