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The main concern of a Hate Sink is whether the narrative treats the character as someone intended to be despised.

The character in question must actually display detestable qualities, and be hated by other characters at least, or treated by the narrative like someone you are supposed to hate. The author's declared intent cements an example, but is not needed if the narrative itself treats the character as someone who is supposed to be hated.

A Hate Sink may have charismatic traits, a troubled past, or complexity, but in order for this trope to be in effect, such traits must be de-emphasized by the narrative in favour of their detestable traits.

Please note that we do not use Effort Posts.

Edited by gjjones on Dec 3rd 2020 at 7:43:25 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#277: May 1st 2019 at 8:05:02 AM

I recently rewatched Set It Up, and am planning to effortpost both a minor character, and a major character later today.

Rawr.
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#278: May 1st 2019 at 11:17:37 AM

Nice.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#279: May 1st 2019 at 6:53:44 PM

Here goes nothing:

What is the work?

Set It Up is a 2018 romantic comedy starring Zoey Deutsch as Harper Moore, Glen Powell as Charlie Young, co-starring Lucy Liu as Kirsten Stevens and Taye Diggs as Rick Otis.

Two Beleaguered Assistants, Charlie and Harper (insert two and a half men joke here), join forces to set their respective bosses up in a relationship so that they can have free time. One of the bosses, Kirsten Stevens turns out to be sympathetic despite her self described "Cunty" demeanor. The other boss, Rick Otis, on the other hand turns out to be just as self absorbed as he seems.

Meanwhile, Charlie is dating a vapid supermodel named Suze, who turns out to be self absorbed as well.

Let's start with Rick.

Who is Rick Otis, and what does he do?

Rick is Charlie's boss, who makes him do menial tasks, and generally treats his employees with disrespect.

Amongst many of the petty ways Rick slights people, in my attempt to be as orderly as possible:

  • He forces Charlie to scramble at the last minute to get him a meal.
  • He Fires an intern for carrying an item which had something to do with his ex wife into his office, and calls the intern a pencil dick.
  • He throws a hissy fit when a claustrophobic deliveryman urinates in the elevator, (which is understandable, but still he's kind of a dick about it, considering the latter is suffering from stress incontinence).
  • He makes Charlie save seats at his son's school play.
  • He blames Kirsten for their bad date, when in reality, albeit offscreen, he did not let her explain how Korean barbecue worked, causing himself to vomit raw meat on the grill.
  • He destroys Charlie's computer, thinking it's his own, when his password does not work.
  • He makes Charlie work on his son's science project.
  • And he cheats on Kirsten with his ex-wife.

Evil Is Cool traits? Complexity? Freudian Excuse?

None of the former traits, considering he is a Villainy-Free Villain of the highest order.

However, he does seemingly care about his son, and when he is drunk he expresses appreciation towards Charlie. That said, the only reason he shows any appreciation is because he is drunk.

No background is really given for his behaviour. Although his impending divorce does seem to explain part of his behaviour, there is nothing to indicate he was so nice before.

All said, he's still a massive tool.

Verdict?

Let the members of the board decide.

Now for Suze.

Who is Suze, and what does she do?

Suze is Charlie's supermodel girlfriend, who is shown to be shallow and vapid, as well as self centered and obsessed with status. In the few scenes we see her,

  • She complains about Charlie not being of higher rank in his job yet.
  • She flirts with other men in front of Charlie.
  • She places too much importance on eating at a steakhouse where Kim hosted Kanye's half birthday.
  • And when Charlie breaks up with her, she freaks out because he is supposed to be her back up guy (if I am recalling the movie correctly).

Evil Is Cool traits? Complexity? Freudian Excuse?

No on both accounts. She is also a Villainy-Free Villain, but is somewhat overshadowed by Rick in terms of how petty she is. That said, she lacks his complexity, and is, at least in that regard, possibly a straighter example of a Hate Sink than Rick.

For sure, she is not well liked by the supporting characters who interact with her.

No FE is given for her.

Verdict?

What do the judges think?

Edited by SkyCat32 on May 9th 2019 at 8:11:39 AM

Rawr.
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#280: May 1st 2019 at 7:09:45 PM

[tup] there.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#281: May 1st 2019 at 7:19:52 PM

Ok the recent definition of hate sink(in that a hate sink can unintentionally be liked by the audience) as laid out has made me wondering....

Should Grimmel be reevaluated? I know that he's considered by this very wiki to not be as heinous as Drago and got a successful Magnificent Bastard effortpost. But director interviews state that the character is supposed to be an allegory for, or represent, bigotry and hatred. While him ending up as a Magnificent Bastard is bad writing on the director's part it's clear that the character is intended to be hated or is supposed to be, but it just really backfired.

Here's the direct quote: "And Grimmel, he's just all about intolerance. [He thinks] dragons are vermin. They are the enemy, they must be suppressed or removed. He cannot tolerate a world in which he has to live with dragons, and the idea that there's some young Viking chief on the island of Berk trying to teach people that they can all live together is personally offensive to him."

Edited by xie323 on May 1st 2019 at 7:34:20 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#282: May 1st 2019 at 7:24:03 PM

43110 did a pretty good explanation on him.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#283: May 1st 2019 at 7:25:25 PM

Edit: Please link to 43's post.

Anyways, could everyone please check out my two most recent effortposts, and vote for posterity.

Edited by SkyCat32 on May 1st 2019 at 10:27:21 AM

Rawr.
xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#284: May 1st 2019 at 7:34:00 PM

Link to 43110's post please.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#285: May 1st 2019 at 7:37:31 PM

Please don't ignore my effortposts @Austin DR @Tropers/xie323

Rawr.
Shadao To be a Master Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
To be a Master
#286: May 1st 2019 at 10:15:43 PM

I'll give a [tup] vote to the unnamed priest, Rick Otis, Suze.

Also, I am still waiting for new entries for the draft page, specifically Him from AustinDR. Just follow the link down in my signature.

As for Hate Sink that end up being a Magnificent Bastard or beloved by the audience for Evil Is Cool (or Draco in Leather Pants), the entries must note a backfire effect upon the audience (like Frieza did). Additionally, a backfired Hate Sink must have a lot of clear-cut evidences that support that this person is truly written to be an unlikable person with no ambiguity just to prevent someone like TDK Bane from being added just because of a quote by the director (Nolan) describing him to be a horrible person (since that's what villains do).

Edited by Shadao on May 1st 2019 at 10:26:41 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#287: May 2nd 2019 at 10:03:38 AM

I just moved Him's entry from to do lists to drafts.

Anyone else want to weigh in on Rick Otis and Suze?

Edited by SkyCat32 on May 2nd 2019 at 1:04:17 PM

Rawr.
Bugfragged Since: Nov, 2012
#288: May 2nd 2019 at 12:02:14 PM

[tup]Otis and Suze.

Also, I put the priest's WU in the drafts.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#289: May 4th 2019 at 7:27:32 PM

It's been over 24 hours since anyone has posted in this thread, and the pending write-up list needs to be updated.

Bump.

Edited by SkyCat32 on May 5th 2019 at 11:53:35 AM

Rawr.
papyru30 The wifi here sucks from South Dakota for school Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The wifi here sucks
#290: May 5th 2019 at 10:58:39 AM

[tup] Rick Otis and Suzie

Edited by papyru30 on May 5th 2019 at 12:08:14 PM

Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#291: May 5th 2019 at 12:15:02 PM

Thanks for stopping by, papyru.

Additionally, I have added the Set it up write-ups to the drafts.

Side note: Romantic comedies are surprising breeding grounds for Hate Sinks.

Edited by SkyCat32 on May 5th 2019 at 3:29:58 PM

Rawr.
Shadao To be a Master Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
To be a Master
#292: May 5th 2019 at 1:21:15 PM

[up] Of course. Romantic Comedies don't have regular villains and super villains. Therefore, to showcase an antagonist, they must be very unpleasant for the audience to root against.

papyru30 The wifi here sucks from South Dakota for school Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The wifi here sucks
#293: May 5th 2019 at 7:45:24 PM

Alright then I'll throw my hat into the ring and propose a character

What's the Work?

Masks of Aygrima is a Fantasy YA Novel trilogy. It is set in the kingdom of Aygrima which is ruled by the Autarch, in it people are considered adults when they turn 15 and on their birthday they have to put on a specialized mask which is imbued with magic to determine if a person will be a fit citizen or not. If it determines that a person is dangerous it shatters and the person is made into a slave. The story follows Mara Holdfast, the daughter of the Master Maskmaker, whose mask breaks when she turns 15. And her joining the rebellion group known as the Unmasked Army which lives in the Secret City.

Who is Grute and what does he do?

Grute is the only boy among the 5 people Mara is initially locked up with. He's introduced mocking Mara's stature by unfavorably comparing her to the other girls, saying that the only attractive thing about her is her unscarred face (the masks usually scar people when they break bu Mara was lucky enough to have a skilled magical healer nearby). He brags about how he brags about how he wasn't disgusted when their jailer drew naked portraits of the girls to sell. When the group is moved onto a wagon to go to the slave mine he says he's going to "have fun" with the girls before one of them gives him a well deserved Groin Attack. This doesn't stop him from almost raping one of the girls later, and when her screams cause the guards to attack him he brags about going through worse beating a never making a sound.

After the group is saved from the wagon and taken in by the Unmasked Army Grute is put through all kinds of humiliations after trying to attack one of them. He manages to break out of his cell at the Secret City and kidnaps Mara, intending to bring her to the slave mine to trade for better treatment. He originally doesn't rape her since he thinks he's get better treatment if she's a virgin. When the two of them sleep in a hut near the camp he gets drunk and tries to rape her whereupon she blows his head up with magic.

Evil Is Cool? Freudian Excuse? Complexity?

He talks about being beaten before and one of the girls talks about him having a broken family life, his father a drunk and his mother and sister being prostitutes but this isn't played for sympathy and it's never explained how she knows this or if it's accurate. He's never given any complexity or sympathetic or cool traits at all.

Verdict

Easy yes for me.

Edited by papyru30 on May 5th 2019 at 8:45:40 AM

Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#295: May 5th 2019 at 10:20:00 PM

[tup] to "I am Grute"

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Shadao To be a Master Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
To be a Master
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#297: May 7th 2019 at 11:45:17 AM

@Shadao, would you mind putting the entries in their proper places when you get the chance? Cinder's draft is finished, as are those of Rick and Suze. Feel free to add and remove potholes as you see fit.

Rawr.
Shadao To be a Master Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
To be a Master
#298: May 7th 2019 at 2:50:38 PM

[up] I'm going to need a daily schedule for stuff like this. Every 2 weeks on Friday perhaps? I don't know. And my goodness, the film subpage is completely out of alphabetical order. This is not exactly as easy I thought it would be. I'm not even sure if I can do this on a daily basis.

But here's the draft for record:

  • RWBY: Cinder Fall is easily the most detestable member of Salem's inner circle, as demonstrated by her abusive treatment of Emerald, as well as mocking Pyrrha's Love Interest about Pyrrha's death, not to mention many acts of petty sadism. Beneath her facade of a strong warrior, Cinder is little more then a petty, sadistic bully who needs others to suffer so she can feel powerful.
  • mother! (2017): Him is a self-absorbed poet who allows humanity to trash His house, making him indirectly responsible for all of the atrocities they commit in the film, and inadvertently causes the death of His son when the hordes accidentally kill and eat him. Even when He saves mother from being beaten, He tries to convince her to forgive the crowd and later rips her heart out to start the cycle anew.
  • Faraway Story: The unnamed Armonican priest is devoid of the sympathetic and entertaining qualities found in the game's other villains, and is instead characterized by his hatred and paranoia of non-Armonicans. He claims to be a pious clergyman, yet he displays his hypocrisy by ignoring Gran's teachings of generosity, as shown when he both refuses to help a dying outsider and threatens to punish Stella for helping. He gets worse when he frames Ellevark for trespassing on Armonica Cathedral's roof and orders his soldiers to shoot both Ellevark and Stella with poison arrows, killing Stella and traumatizing Ellevark into fearing interactions with humans. Eventually, his deplorable actions cause one of his subordinates to poison him as a form of karma.
  • Set It Up:
    • Rick Otis is a high ranking New York executive who regularly mistreats his subordinates, and is introduced having Charlie Young scramble to get him dinner. Throughout the film, Rick has Charlie do other menial tasks, such as working on a science project for the former's son, and saving seats at the aforementioned son's play. When an intern brings an item into Rick's office relating to his ex wife, Kiki, Rick fires the intern, calling him a "pencil dick" for good measure. After being manipulated into a relationship with fellow executive Kirsten Stevens, courtesy of the latter's assistant Harper Moore, as well as Rick's own assistant Charlie, Rick blames Kirsten for a bad date after eating raw beef at a Korean restaurant. Eventually, once his relationship with Kirsten resumes, Rick lets slip to Charlie that he is cheating on Kirsten with Kiki.
    • Suze is Charlie's vapid, self-absorbed Supermodel girlfriend who is obsessed with prestige and status. When Charlie invites her to the school play where Rick's son is performing, Suze complains about Charlie not being higher up in his career. In a later scene, Suze is seen flirting with other men, prompting Charlie to join Harper at her best friend's engagement party when the latter's date does not make contact. When Suze and Charlie eat dinner at an expensive restaurant, Suze makes a big deal about said restaurant being the venue for Kanye West's half birthday. Suze responds to Charlie breaking up with her at the restaurant by whining that Charlie is supposed to be her "backup".
  • Twin Peaks: Richard Horne is the sociopathic son of Audrey and a sleazy drug dealer. Richard establishes himself as a prick by threatening a girl with rape in public. Later after accidentally running over a child, Richard attempts to brutally murder a witness and bribes a cop into deleting evidence. He then brutalises and robs his own grandmother before calling her the c-word. Richard also displays indifference when his boss gets killed by Cooper's doppleganger.

Edited by Shadao on May 7th 2019 at 3:00:08 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#299: May 7th 2019 at 3:17:41 PM

Perhaps Nombretomado can help us re-organize the pages.

2 weeks is good time.

If worse comes to worse, we could have the pages locked after they are sorted and purged.

Edited by SkyCat32 on May 7th 2019 at 6:28:16 AM

Rawr.
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#300: May 8th 2019 at 9:27:02 AM

I have added a link to the hate sink trope in the examples needing sorting page. Hopefully tomado gets it done in good time.

Also, @Shadao, don't give up just yet. You are doing extremely well so far.

Rawr.

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