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The main concern of a Hate Sink is whether the narrative treats the character as someone intended to be despised.

The character in question must actually display detestable qualities, and be hated by other characters at least, or treated by the narrative like someone you are supposed to hate. The author's declared intent cements an example, but is not needed if the narrative itself treats the character as someone who is supposed to be hated.

A Hate Sink may have charismatic traits, a troubled past, or complexity, but in order for this trope to be in effect, such traits must be de-emphasized by the narrative in favour of their detestable traits.

Please note that we do not use Effort Posts.

Edited by gjjones on Dec 3rd 2020 at 7:43:25 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#2551: Dec 17th 2019 at 11:32:37 PM

I have loads of thoughts on the EP stuff. But I'll keep them to private conversation for now do to not wanting to acidently start something.

Anyway, if someone could add(And edit) this to the drafts it'd be great. As I'm suspicious from editing and will continue to be so for awhile.

On MCU!Will Rawlings sheet

Hate Sink: He seems to have been written to be as loathsome as possible

One of the clearest keepers in the MCU, but the entry is awful.

Temporary Rewrite unless others can come up with something better:Rawlings is one of the most loathsome Charachters In the entire MCU, from his crappy treatment of Soliders in Frank's flashbacks, to him murdering Frank's family simply because Frank messed up his face to several moments of cruel sadism whenever he has power over others. When Bill Russo hates your guts, you know your a bastard.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#2552: Dec 18th 2019 at 5:54:05 AM

I can just fix up your grammar and shoot it up Kylo. It gets the point across, which I like. I am going to restate my concern about G's Hate Sink entry for the dark fic. I guess it's technically kosher to talk about here since it's not regulated like Complete Monster but the entry looks like you basically want to have CM Cartman up from a work that wouldn't fly there. Is this thread going to spend time discussing the likes of The Human Centipede and A Serbian Film villains?

FWIW here's what I turned it into: Rawlings is one of the most loathsome characters in the entire MCU, as seen in his mistreatment and abuse of his own soldiers in Frank's flashbacks; his murder of Frank's entire family as a means of vengeance against the latter; and his cruel sadism seen anytime he holds power over others. When even Bill Russo hates your guts, you know you're a bastard.

Edited by 43110 on Dec 18th 2019 at 8:57:12 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#2553: Dec 18th 2019 at 6:08:11 AM

[up] I actually agree with you, and I would prefer if we don't spend time on such grimdark villains, actually. I may not have said it before, but I kind of really want as little discussion of grimdark schlock and Ron the Death Eater as possible. Again, if the intent of the creator is so blatantly obvious, we have agreed that discussion is superfluous.

[down] I think we should.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Dec 18th 2019 at 5:11:40 AM

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#2554: Dec 18th 2019 at 11:55:08 AM

Can we consider organizing the Live-Action Films page via alphabetization?

Also, do I have a green light for a draft for Admiral Motti?

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#2555: Dec 18th 2019 at 12:14:22 PM

In terms of how scary vs. how hateable a villain has to be, would Real Ghostbusters Bogeyman count? He is really creepy, but he torments kids:

https://ghostbusters.fandom.com/wiki/Boogieman

There is also the Grundel, who I think is one of the most repulsive and creepy villains in a kids cartoon, IMO:

https://ghostbusters.fandom.com/wiki/Grundel

The Grundel is scary and creepy, but he is also icky.

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#2556: Dec 18th 2019 at 3:44:30 PM

Not effortpost required for obvious HS's? Sounds great!

Edited by Klavice on Dec 18th 2019 at 5:22:25 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#2557: Dec 18th 2019 at 6:01:19 PM

Anyone’s free to go alphabetize if they’d like. No guarantee it’ll stay that way but you can edit it freely.

Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#2558: Dec 18th 2019 at 10:06:38 PM

@k410ren Yes. Motti is such an obvious candidate that you shouldn't expect any objections.

Speaking of Star Wars, there is one character I would like to reexamine once The Rise of Skywalker officially comes out.

Edited by Shadao on Dec 18th 2019 at 10:08:46 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#2559: Dec 18th 2019 at 11:54:05 PM

You know, I think maybe we could bring back the "2 week rule" thing. I've come to accept most of the reasoning behind getting rid of old rules....but the 2 week thing with the other threads never had anything to do with the voting process or the tropes being subjective. It was to avoid spoiling things for certain tropers. Wich I'd like sense I can already tell who's gonna be discussed and would like to participate in that discussion, but also know if that movie gives some big reveal about the Charachter i don't want it to be spoiled.

Edited by Kylotrope on Dec 18th 2019 at 11:55:32 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#2560: Dec 19th 2019 at 6:18:35 AM

No, that's ridiculous. What's next? "no troping anything from a new work for two weeks?"

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
nombretomado (Season 1) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#2562: Dec 19th 2019 at 7:23:20 AM

No.

It would be courteous to spoiler tag such entries, but that's general community niceties.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#2563: Dec 19th 2019 at 7:37:22 AM

Not only shouldn't there be a 2 week rule, I think that the subpages would be better off without any spoiler tags.

[down] Ok.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Dec 19th 2019 at 11:01:52 AM

nombretomado (Season 1) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#2564: Dec 19th 2019 at 7:57:22 AM

I meant when discussing in forums, personally.

dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#2566: Dec 19th 2019 at 10:39:41 AM

I understand. And the tag idea sounds like a good one.

Oh and also that update on my rewrite looks great 43 And thanks.

Edited by Kylotrope on Dec 19th 2019 at 10:40:31 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#2567: Dec 20th 2019 at 11:10:00 AM

  • A New Hope: Admiral Conan Antonio Motti is introduced dismissing General Tagge's concerns about the threat of the Rebel Alliance despite a major victory, declaring the Death Star the "ultimate power in the universe". When chastised by Darth Vader for his arrogance, Motti proceeds to insult Vader and his adherence to the Force, prompting Vader to strangle him from across the room with only Grand Moff Tarkin stopping him from killing Motti. Unbowed, Motti spends the rest of the film willingly complying with Tarkin's orders to commit genocide and his pronouncements are proven wrong when Luke Skywalker drops a proton torpedo into the Death Star's reactor, killing all onboard the Death Star, including Motti. A figure portrayed as Trigger-Happy and pompous by his actor and subsequent material, Motti's character stands as a reminder to those who doubt the power of the Force.

Edited by k410ren on Dec 20th 2019 at 2:11:06 PM

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#2568: Dec 20th 2019 at 11:17:02 AM

Overlord, do you still need some help writing a Kivas Fajo entry that differs from your CM write-up? If so, I can take a gander at it.

Regarding your RGB suggestions. I'm in two minds about the Bogeyman. In some ways, he has an Evil Is Cool vibe to him, but he's overall written in way that's not supposed to be liked, so I think the write-up of the entry will make all the difference.

The Grundel, however, is an open-and-shut case. He was definitely one of the worst villains the show ever came up with.

I'm also wondering about the Makoveris lotsabuck but I'm cautious given the Take That! aspect JMS took towards the show's producers when writing the episode.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Dec 20th 2019 at 7:20:37 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#2569: Dec 20th 2019 at 11:43:37 PM

This batch is up:

  • Lex Talionis: Eric Cartman is much more vile here than he was canon. With his Irrational Hatred for Kyle Broflovski developing into a twisted lustful obsession, he kidnaps Kyle to make him his "fiancé" before imprisoning and raping Kyle for ten years. He would also rape Tweek to keep him quiet about the incident and is implied to be a Serial Rapist have also raped Butters, Tomas, and Christophe. Cartman's atrocities would be discovered by Stan Marsh who murders him for his depravities while his death is mourn by none.
  • Beware Two-Toed Tom: Two-Toed Tom, a Serial Killer in alligator's skin, moves into a town one day, making it his domain. Egotistical, Two-Toed Tom vows vengeance on a hunter for disfiguring it. He murders his young son Timothy Meier alongside his other children as well as massacring the women of the town.
  • The Resurrection of Rose:
    • Rose the Hat sheds her redeeming traits upon resurrection by massacring a group of True Knot despite them performing the dark ritual to revive her. She then takes over a Shining trafficking operation where she deprives several True Knot of steam; creates devices to rip the steam out of the children; and devises an orb that drives a small group of True Knots to madness and killing themselves. She abuses her resurrected clan — particularly Crow Daddy — and sacrifices one True Knot to the Overlook Hotel as part of a deal with it. She sends the Overlook to possess Abra Stone into killing her mother out of spite before releasing her legions of brainwashed True Knot onto the town and relishes in the onslaught of carnage. When Crow Daddy escapes assisting Abra and Danny Torrance, Rose tortures Snakebite Andi to extract information from her. Merging with the Overlook Hotel and becoming a large monstrosity, Rose murders Crow Daddy before creating a massive black hole to not only destroy Abra's world but all worlds in the multiverse.
    • Upon getting revived by the aforementioned Rose the Hat, Barry the Chunk levels a bridge, endangering dozens of human lives, in an effort to eliminate Abra Stone. He then takes one of Abra's classmates hostage, threatening to throw them out the back window of the bus if she didn't relent. He does so anyway despite her compliance.
  • Martina McBride's "Concrete Angel": The song highlights the evils of child abuse through Angela's unnamed mother, shown only as a woman with a drinking problem and anger issues. She beats her daughter to the extent that bruises are visible but no one does anything. By the time the law gets involved, it is too late as Angela's mother ends up killing her daughter in a fit of rage.
  • Aerosmith's "Janie's Got a Gun": Janie's father appears in the music video as an unassuming rich man who lusted after his daughter until he eventually sexually assaulted her. When no one believes Janie, and she suffers a breakdown, Janie takes matters into her own hands and shoots her father dead. The lyrics empathize how much he deserved his fate, as well as the nightmare he put his daughter through.
  • The Taking of Pelham One Two Three: Mr. Grey, real name Giuseppe Benvenuto, is one of four men who hijack a subway train for ransom. Throughout the film, Grey antagonizes the hostages, sexually harassing a woman, beating a black man for mouthing off (and calling him the N-word), and trying to shoot cops after a ceasefire. He also guns down a transit supervisor and chuckles about it afterwards, saying he "got [the hijackers] on the scoreboard". The hijackers' leader Mr. Blue frequently has to step in and stop him from going too far, and makes clear that he does not trust Grey because he was thrown out of the Mafia for being too violent. When the hijackers attempt to escape, Grey delays them by refusing to give up his gun; Blue, who has had enough of him, just shoots him dead.
  • Even Though Im A Former Noble And Single Mother
    • Alice Ragdoll, maiden name Alice Earlgrey, is the biological younger sister of the titular character, Shirley Earlgrey. Since they were both children, Alice, with her family's sanction, absolutely brutalized her elder sister, knowing Shirley was expressly forbidden from fighting back. Not content with that, she schemed to steal Albert, the crown prince, away from Shirley, and succeeded, by falsely accusing Shirley of many things, including Shirley brutalizing her when both were children, as opposed to the other way around, and tempting Albert into an adulterous tryst with herself. Alice is also entirely unfaithful to Albert, having so many men share her marital bed, that her bedroom might as well have a revolving door. She serves as the Freudian Excuse for many villains when it's revealed she used hypnosis magic to warp their minds, after luring them into her bed. She is also a petty, vindictive, entitled parasite who expects the best things in the world, for no effort on her part, and woe if the servants can't get them to her fast enough, even if she changes her whims without notice. When she hears that Albert sired daughters with Shirley and wants to make said daughters his heirs, she agrees to help him take custody, just so she can ship them off to the most physically and morally repulsive nobles she can find, just to spite Shirley for having things she can't.
    • Emperor, former prince, Albert himself is nowhere near as charming as he thinks either. After being betrothed to Shirley for eight years, he accepts, at face value, with no evidence whatsoever, aside from some Crocodile Tears, that Shirley is guilty of a great many crimes, and has her taken to a dungeon to be tortured into confessing them, even though it was utterly impossible for her to commit the crimes in the first place. As he's putting Shirley through a Kangaroo Court, he openly admits that he's butt-hurt that she's a better swordsman, scholar, and mage than himself, even being more popular with the people, due to her charity and kindness. The very instant Shirley is taken away to the dungeons, he marries Alice, the accuser, whom he admits he had an affair with. Ten years after Shirley escaped the dungeon, and the country, he learns she bore twin daughters. Rather than make entreaties to try and make amends, he repeatedly uses mind-control curses on said daughters to try and kidnap them, purely so he can use said daughters as heirs, damn their consent or well-being. Deluding himself into thinking he's done nothing wrong, he drives his people to abysmal poverty, just to slate the desires of his adulterous wife, and refuses to leave Shirley and her daughters alone, bringing his nation to the brink of war, and can't, for the life of him, understand why Shirley and her daughters want nothing to do with him.

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#2570: Dec 21st 2019 at 4:34:35 AM

I will now Effortpost one person from Ace Attorney, one of which should be an easy counter and the other I've got quite a few doubts about.

Next up is the one I'm pretty sure isn't one but was suggested to me by Troper Master N.

Who is Cammy Meele?

Cammy Meele is the second culprit of Investigations 1 and a stewardess who works for the smuggling ring. She's flirty but only with the Captain and seems to have shades of April May in her being a seemingly Brainless Beauty who is actually more intelligent and cutthroat thab she lets on.

What has she done that makes her so despicable?

First of all, she's the killer of an Interpol Agent by knocking him off the stairs to die by freefalling. She also places the victim's wallet covered in grape juice on Edgeworth's person to ensure that either he or Rhoda Teneiro get accused, she constantly interrupts tge investigation, is extremely unhelpful, pins the crime on Rhoda when Edgeworth clears his name, abuses a stuffed animal, and... hates cleaning and Rhoda's design.

She's also incredibly hard and frustrating to talk to due to falling asleep constantly (which is an act) and her ditzy act only getting her so far. But yeah she can be kind of a bitch.

Freudian Excuse? Evil is Cool? Complexity?

To answer the middle question, no. But the first and third is where I draw pause. After all, she blows a lot on a bubble pipe which implies she was a heavy smoker and when cornered has this to say.

"He was Interpol... I couldn't stop it... I brought him here... He started taking pictures... I... I couldn't be found out... I was scared... I was in trouble... I... I.... I I I I I I I I I I I I I..."

She clearly shows a fear of Quercus Alba too unlike the other case villains. So I would say she does not pass here.

Verdict?

[tdown] to her. But it's up to you.

Edit: I wasn't sure whether Cammy would be accepted, and so I leaned no. And I put Portsman up to make sure he would be accepted and there wasn't something I missed.

Edited by Klavice on Dec 21st 2019 at 10:50:29 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#2571: Dec 21st 2019 at 2:54:57 PM

[up] You realize that if there's no doubt about a candidate, effortposting is unnecessary, right? It's not my job to point this out, so I'm crossing this out.

Not sure on Cammy, though. Are her despicable traits emphasized? If they are, then she makes the cut.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Dec 21st 2019 at 6:00:21 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#2572: Dec 21st 2019 at 2:56:11 PM

This isn't even a matter of someone new coming in confused, you were participating in the discussuon when all this was decided.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
nombretomado (Season 1) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#2573: Dec 21st 2019 at 3:09:27 PM

~Klavice, you literally posted positively about no required effortposts earlier. I'm genuinely lost why you are EP'ing a character you say you have no qualms about.

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#2574: Dec 21st 2019 at 3:44:20 PM

I agree. You should only do an anti-EP if you wanna CUT an entry from the list. Otherwise, do not bother. And furthermore, when I asked you why you did not think she qualified, I assumed you were going to PM me the reasons. I did not ask for an EP.

Edited by MasterN on Dec 21st 2019 at 3:45:38 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#2575: Dec 21st 2019 at 5:27:35 PM

Would the film version of Denethor from ‘’The Lord of the Rings’’ count? He’s written in the films as much more unsympathetic; instead of partaking in rationing, he dines well, he’s motivated by pride and resentment of Gandalf to block Aragorn’s accedence to the throne of Gondor, he’s emotionally abusive of his son Faramir and even before Boromir’s death, which pushed him over the Despair Event Horizon, he’s shown to be unwilling to believe anything good about Faramir, and his more heroic moments are Adapted Out like lighting the beacons and resisting Sauron’s attempts to corrupt him through the palantir.

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills

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