So I'm dropping this show. I realized after watching this episode that none of the characters are really fleshed out enough, whether in characterization or in their relationship to the other characters, for me to care beyond "this is a horrible thing happening to them."
I mean Gilda's the mole, but that was obvious from the last episode, and there really isn't a personal stake to her being the mole. Hell, there's not a stake to her at all since what do we know about her? Nothing. Except she's a mole. She's a plot device, and so are most of the orphans. I don't know enough to get invested in them, plus their relation to the M Cs are left at a vague sense of family.
There's no specific relationship the characters have that adds weight to the narrative. Like, for example but not really since it would be cliche, what if Gilda was one of the M Cs love interest? Then the situation would be more than "random family member number 12 was spying on us."
It doesn't help either that most of the show so far has just been talking and planning with no acting on their plans, besides maybe Krone. And I don't really mind such, but I'm not sure I willing to slog through 4 episodes of it.
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet Unless I grew it. In that case, throw it in the trash.
See, you really should watch this latest episode to completion, because if you had, you’d know that Gilda isn’t the mole, Ray is.
Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Jan 31st 2019 at 7:52:53 AM
Oh God! Natural light!Yeah, you're a bit too quick to judge here…
Now what do we know about the characters? Emma is the cheerful and impulsive girl who'll make no compromises about saving everyone. Ray is the pragmatic one who acts as a foil to her and may or may not have motivations of his own. And Norman is in-between but largely motivated by his love for Emma. All of them must see as an enemy someone who until a few days ago was their beloved caretaker.
Izabella is the apparently cold woman who sends the kids to their death, may or may not actually care about them and is probably in no position to rebel against her employers. And Krone is the ambitious one who wants to overthrow Izabella. Both of them will do anything to get or keep the position of Mom, as if it was the safest spot in the world.
That's already a whole bunch of personal stakes set up in the first three episodes. And episode 4 starts to flesh out Don and Gilda a bit.
Gotta say, I really like Izabella as a villain.
Anyhow, pretty good episode. Nothing too special up until the last minute, but it's got good character moments and continues to build up to the escape. I'm presuming that they'll have the first attempt as a mid-season climax, as it would make sense to spend the next episode preparing and dealing with the results of this episode.
Man, I pegged Ray as sketchy from the get-go, but didn't think the show would have the guts to make him an actual traitor. Given he's got one of the main spotlights, I wonder if this will stick.
Edited by TheLovecraftian on Feb 1st 2019 at 5:47:53 PM
Don't have much to say about the latest episode since it was basically just getting Don and Gilda up to speed and waiting for the real impact at the end which brings a lot of Ray's previous actions into question.
Though Emma is an incredibly good protagonist and remains the delight of every episode, idk if the Emma and Gilda subplot was quite that effective? Emma and Gilda not interacting much doesn't quite lend itself well into being a narrative thread
The last part of Nouct's comment is what I was talking about. The rest of the orphans don't have much in the way of characterization to them to make me empathize with the MC's attempts to save them beyond a general sense of pity. The orphans relationships's with each other and Izabella isn't fleshed out more than just a general "They're family." It's more just a standardized display of "family" than any real connection. It's barebone attempt to not violate show, don't tell. There's no specific interactions they have that wasn't the result of them finding out the truth. Nothing that really makes the relationship between them feel real to me.
For example, Izabella's relevance as a villain comes more from her power over the kids, and less from her personal connection to them. Izabella, for all her time on screen, has been portrayed more as an evil matriarch and less as someone whose made a personal betrayal. This is because her relationship to them hasn't been expanded beyond "caretaker who turns out to be evil". There's been no seemingly real on-screen display or even mention of kindness that makes me understand on an emotional level why the M Cs had any attachment to her.
I can understand on an intellectual level, but that's not enough to hold my interest.
The other issue I have is that the onscreen preparations for their escape haven't consisted of much other than just talking. Like I recall there being a scene where there's a note saying Norman has a rope in his bed. And I'm like, "Why don't we get scenes of them actually getting the materials, or figuring out what materials they need for their plan?"
I just feel the show is too passive in building up to the escape attempt.
As for me not learning who the spy actually was, I was like halfway or so through the episode when I realized i was basically forcing myself to finish the episode and that I really didn't have much of an interest in the show.
TL;DR The orphans, save the M Cs, are more an amorphous blob than actual characters, and Izabella is more evil "blob care-taker," and less someone I would actually think of as their mother.
Edited by RedRob on Feb 1st 2019 at 9:41:19 AM
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet Unless I grew it. In that case, throw it in the trash.I was pretty much watching just to see what the hype was about this show.
It does sound like it gets interesting later on, but I'm getting the sense the beginning is pretty slow in pace compared to later, and I'm not finding a reason to ride it through.
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet Unless I grew it. In that case, throw it in the trash.In hindsight, I might have come off as harsh in trying to make my view and feelings about the show come across clearly. I just wanted to make sure people wouldn't misunderstand what I was saying.
But in the end, I don't think the show is bad, it just didn't live up to the hype for me and is average overall. There's good scenes, like the M Cs' reactions at the end of the first episode, and Izabella is fine as villain. I enjoy how menacing she can be, I was just saying that her potrayal isn't something that makes me go "Gee sucks that your mom is selling ya off."
Rather it just makes me go "Gee, sucks you're going up against such an intimidating person."
I have read the tropes page, and I do feel there's some good stuff here, but I also feel there's not enough to have me watch everything else.
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet Unless I grew it. In that case, throw it in the trash.I do kind of agree with Rob that it doesn't quite feel like the children feel betrayed by their mother. I guess it's because the children are all very smart, they know they'll be adopted eventually, and they know Izabella's just their caretaker - but she's still the only adult they know and the woman responsible for their wellbeing. It helps that it doesn't look like Izabella is super affectionate with them, at least not beyond the level of being a long-standing family maid or something. She doesn't tuck them in or read them bedtime stories or anything.
It's been fun.Episode 5! The first half is really masterfully directed, although the first music used is slightly over-the-top. The episode actually covers quite a lot of material (we're more or less at the end of volume 2) without ever feeling rushed. In that sense, I think removing the inner monologues was actually a good thing − that scene where Norman stays silent on his bed while sweating and covering his mouth is for example much more impactful as a result, as you can imagine his mind racing like crazy, even if you don't actually hear his thoughts.
On the other hand, the scene where Emma throws a Death Glare at Ray for sacrificing children in his plan felt a bit too much like a copy-paste of the manga's page yet wasn't quite given enough weight…
The end of the episode plays in a strange way… Don doesn't steal Izabella's key, and the door opens before they get down into the secret room, instead of after… Not sure where they're going with this change.
One thing they could do to fix that would be to adapt the manga's extra short stories (those showing daily life in the orphanage before the reveal). Those little slice-of-life scenes would really do wonders to create a closer connection with the characters. Now sure how they can be integrated into the anime though…
Edited by Lyendith on Feb 7th 2019 at 10:41:10 AM
Man, Ray got all the funny faces this episode.
Okay, not all of them. Norman had a pretty good one near the end.
Gotta say, it's starting to stretch credibility that our main characters are all 11-12 year old kids. Don and Gilda are just fine, though, what with being stupid, overeager kids. MVP of the episode goes to Emma's VA, though, for the scene where she finds out Ray's the spy.
Not a lot happens in this episode, but the discussions are at least entertaining. Props to the direction for that. Also, I'm willing to bet the cliffhanger at the end is a fakeout.
Oh… so that's where they were going. Lots of foreshadowig in this ep. some emphasis on Phil not quite being like the other kids, Norman finding something in Ray's room, Ray apparently being next on the Demons' shopping list, and Krone having some tricks left up her sleeve.
Funny that, for once, the protags discussing their plans in the open actually had consequences.
And that audio jumpscare was kinda scary and kinda hilarious at the same time. Which describes Sister Krone in a nutshell, I guess.
Otherwise… am I the only one who found Don's vocal performance a little weak in this ep? When he was supposed to be shouting and crying especially.
Well, the camera and direction people were sure inspired in this episode.
...I don't like Don, honestly. He's a bit of an entitled prick, and it's kinda hard to feel bad when he goes all mopey and guilt-trippy in this episode. On this specific instance, I have to agree that I just don't know enough about him to feel his breakdown here.
Also, this bears repeating, y'all are not subtle. Having discussions and shouting matches on the main hall at night, standing outside with lamps while you talk about the plans... I'm amazed Izabella hasn't shipped you all already. It's no wonder Krone catches on at the end of the episode. Although I'm curious as to what her offer of alliance means.
Now, I don't remember which child Phil is, but given that he pointed out the morse code in the books, I'm willing to bet there'll be a sixth member to this escape team yet.
Say, I can't remember if this show is one cour or two. Do we have any word on that?
I have to say that episode 5 really helped sell me on the character conflict of this show (I'm one episode behind because I don't pay for subscription). Ray and Norman's scene in the beginning was perfect but the meeting in the forest and the stuff with Don and Gilda was great too.
Edited by Druplesnubb on Feb 15th 2019 at 2:42:34 PM

Episode 4! That little issue again, huh… Like in the previous episodes, Gilda's reactions to Krone's questions are much more suspicious than in the manga. Krone also reacts much more angrily after her missed shot. I kinda feel like the anime wants to respect Show, Don't Tell as much as possible, but overshoots to the point of becoming a bit too on-the-nose at times. But well, it was still a nice episode, with some good character moments for Emma and Gilda.
Also not sure what that drawn-out staircase tracking shot was about. >.>
Edited by Lyendith on Jan 31st 2019 at 11:27:42 AM