Follow TV Tropes

Following

Not Tropeworthy: Counterpart Comparison

Go To

Jan 30th 2019 at 12:09:02 AM

Surprisingly Similar Characters is in the Just for Fun space, which I think means the 'surprising' part doesn't necessarily apply XD;

ElfenLiedFan90 Future Arsenal FC and World Class Player from Jakarta,Indonesia Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Future Arsenal FC and World Class Player
Jan 30th 2019 at 12:31:57 AM

Hmmmm... Seems that Indirect Active Transport has a decent point right there. Any counterarguments regarding it?

Skills of the future best defender Current story that I made.
Jan 30th 2019 at 12:35:36 AM

[up] Over on the first page there was the argument that a lot of the time it's treated as "Expy but less specific," there's consistent misuse with works instead of characters, and while it is a reaction, the question is whether said reaction interesting and notable enough to keep.

Going by the crowner it seems like SSC would cover all the bases pretty well since JFF pages can have stuff like "purple character who is the third boy in the group and gets the least amount of appearances, is that Austin or Ongo?"

Edited by lalalei2001 on Jan 30th 2019 at 12:37:29 PM

GastonRabbit King of Blue Lions from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
King of Blue Lions
Jan 30th 2019 at 1:51:26 AM

The consensus is very heavily in favor of redirecting to JustForFun.Surprisingly Similar Characters, to the point that it's probably safe to call.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 30th 2019 at 3:52:22 AM

"...the Linux philosophy is "laugh in the face of danger". Oops. Wrong one. "Do it yourself". That's it." —Linus Torvalds
Jan 30th 2019 at 1:55:32 AM

[up][up][up]. Indirect Transport typed a lot of words, but I can't tell WHAT his point is, let alone whether it's decent.

There's a Wall of Text explaining why two characters have literally anything in common according to literally anyone.

Why do we need to catalog such non-noteworthy nonsense? What possible value does it add?

The crowner has overwhelming support for a cut and redirect. Let's call it and start cleaning wicks.

GastonRabbit King of Blue Lions from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
King of Blue Lions
Jan 30th 2019 at 2:29:55 AM

The first entry on the first subpage of Surprisingly Similar Characters:

(Edit: Moved entry to a labelnote to reduce clutter) 

It's pretty clear that these pages aren't meant to be taken seriously (the entry above is less "Surprisingly Similar Characters" and more "Vaguely Similar Characters", and that's the point), and that the main point is that the comparison is between two characters (something Counterpart Comparison examples often ignore), regardless of what traits are being compared.

Regardless, as I've said, the consensus is already in favor of redirecting (10.50 : 1 ratio), so I don't see anything else happening.

Edit: As for Audience Reactions' Not a Trope status, one current TRS thread (the one for Franchise Actors, which I've also posted in) is for a Useful Notes page and is also filed under Not Tropeworthy. I'd argue that Not a Trope applies to Useful Notes more than it does for Audience Reactions, since they can't even be listed as being used In-Universe. If the part about Not Tropeworthy being applied to something that's Not a Trope were really an issue, the mods would have shot both threads down.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 30th 2019 at 11:47:53 AM

"...the Linux philosophy is "laugh in the face of danger". Oops. Wrong one. "Do it yourself". That's it." —Linus Torvalds
IndirectActiveTransport You Give Me Fever from Chicago Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
You Give Me Fever
Jan 30th 2019 at 10:20:17 PM

My point? Maybe it was a wall of text because I made more than one.

Here's one: Judging audience reactions by trope standards is just wrong because the two are not the same thing.

Two: Even if we are judging this audience reaction by trope standards, you have trope pages that are basically opposites reactions, such as not so different and not so similar. We should in fact be more lenient to audience reactions because those are listing just that, reactions, overlap where the only difference is subjective opinion is, sadly, acceptable.

Three: The just for fun page suggested to move the examples to is not intended to have the same kind of examples as counterpart comparison. Surprisingly similar characters is about having fun making characters that don't seem to be alike sound like they really are. Counterpart comparison just lists characters that are commonly compared to each other by fans. There could be some overlap, but there doesn't have to be.

I didn't even make this last point in that last post but I remind you that on this wiki There Is No Such Thing as Notability. All one has to do on that front is prove something exists. You might not believe Samus Aran is worth comparing to Mega Man or Master Chief, but it is something fans do. A quick search on youtube, or deviant art, or cracked.com or electric ferret will prove that. Now with a just for fun page I guess you could say, "pointless, cut", but you're going to have to elaborate a little more in most cases, like this one.

Edited by IndirectActiveTransport on Jan 30th 2019 at 12:21:39 PM

That's why he wants you to have the money. Not so you can buy 14 Cadillacs but so you can help build up the wastes
GastonRabbit King of Blue Lions from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
King of Blue Lions
Jan 30th 2019 at 10:25:09 PM

[up]There Is No Such Thing as Notability means that any work can have a page (within site policy), regardless of popularity or notability. It does not mean "anything goes", though Just for Fun can mean that (at least to an extent), and we've been saying for a while that these sorts of comparisons belong there.

No idea what point you're trying to make by saying anyone has tried to get Surprisingly Similar Characters cut (or any Just for Fun page, since no current Not Tropeworthy threads are for Just for Fun pages, not counting at least two other threads that suggested moving things in Main/ to Just for Fun, including one I did the actual moving for), since we've been saying that Counterpart Comparison should be cut, and Surprisingly Similar Characters is doing its job.

The rest of that post looks like it covers what you already covered in your other post, just less wordy. You also keep bringing up Not So Different and Not So Similar, which are objective tropes that have nothing to do with Audience Reactions.

You didn't even address my counterargument to your Not a Trope argument. In fact, I'll add to my counterargument by pointing out that TRS threads for works are explicitly allowed, despite being things that use tropes and not tropes themselves.

Edit: Also, as I've said before, the consensus heavily favors a redirect, and has actually gone up slightly since I last said that. At this point, arguing against that is akin to the TRS posts complaining about the decision to cut Five Bad Band after it was cut. (Not exaggerating what happened in that thread; click the link in the cut reason.)

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 31st 2019 at 7:02:53 AM

"...the Linux philosophy is "laugh in the face of danger". Oops. Wrong one. "Do it yourself". That's it." —Linus Torvalds
Jan 31st 2019 at 6:45:19 AM

Consensus is overwhelmingly in favor of a redirect, crowner has been up for over a week. Hollering for a mod to call the crowner so we can move forward.

GastonRabbit King of Blue Lions from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
King of Blue Lions
Jan 31st 2019 at 6:47:59 AM

[up]Thank you.

"...the Linux philosophy is "laugh in the face of danger". Oops. Wrong one. "Do it yourself". That's it." —Linus Torvalds
Jan 31st 2019 at 10:09:34 AM

Should the redirect be in the Just for Fun namespace?

Brainulator9 Regular garden-variety troper. from US Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Regular garden-variety troper.
Jan 31st 2019 at 10:32:25 AM

[up] The plan is to redirect to JustForFun.Surprisingly Similar Characters.

Important Trope Repair Shop thread under construction for four closely-related items.
Willbyr MOD Anime-ted from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Anime-ted
Jan 31st 2019 at 5:42:10 PM

I realized any Counterpart Comparison that's widespread enough to be considered valid falls under Memetic Mutation. We might be able to move some examples there.

GastonRabbit King of Blue Lions from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
King of Blue Lions
Jan 31st 2019 at 5:49:17 PM

I made the redirect and removed the indexing. Wick list and subpage list for whatever we're doing with the examples, whether it's moving them to Surprisingly Similar Characters or just cutting them.

Edit: For any dewicking I do, I'm completely removing wicks that are on pages other than YMMV subpagesnote  or Counterpart Comparison subpages, inline wicks in non-Counterpart Comparison text (mainly potholes), opinions that clearly come from a single person, and all work comparisons with those criteria. Leaving ones on YMMV pages and Counterpart Comparison subpages in case they need to be moved; misuse that refers to works can go on Surprisingly Similar Stories if we're moving character comparisons to Surprisingly Similar Characters and not just redirecting.

Edit: I'm seeing a lot of "in-universe examples" that are from one person. I'm cutting them completely, partially due to that being misuse even before the cut, and partially because Surprisingly Similar Characters is primarily for troper-made comparisons.

Edit: Would it be worth moving valid examples on YMMV subpages and Counterpart Comparison subpages to a new subpage of Surprisingly Similar Characters? Maybe SurprisinglySimilarCharacters.Fanbase Comparisons or SurprisinglySimilarCharacters.Common Comparisons? If a single page would be too long, they can be split alphabetically, like the troper-specific entries. Update: Ignore; it looks like they're simply being deleted, due to the subpage cuts being made.

Edit: Just to clarify, if we're just leaving the redirect without migrating examples, I'll dewick the YMMV page examples I previously mentioned and cutlist Counterpart Comparison subpages. Update: The latter has already been done.

Edit again: Saw that the subpages were cutlisted. If the cuts are approved, I'll take that to mean examples are being cut completely. (Update: They've been approved.)

Update: Only YMMV subpage wicks, ghost wicks, and a wick on a locked page in the Newsletter/ namespace (presumably an unmodifiable archive due to the lock, the date in the title, and the presence of red links to other cut pages, so it should probably be ignored) remain, aside from Counterpart Comparison subpages, which have been cutlisted already.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 1st 2019 at 11:12:59 AM

"...the Linux philosophy is "laugh in the face of danger". Oops. Wrong one. "Do it yourself". That's it." —Linus Torvalds
Feb 1st 2019 at 1:12:03 PM

Should I start de-wicking links to the CC subpages so they can be cut?

Or is there a reason they haven't been cut yet?

GastonRabbit King of Blue Lions from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
King of Blue Lions
Feb 1st 2019 at 4:23:01 PM

[up]They're still on the Cut List, so it looks like they just haven't been looked at by a mod.

"...the Linux philosophy is "laugh in the face of danger". Oops. Wrong one. "Do it yourself". That's it." —Linus Torvalds
Brainulator9 Regular garden-variety troper. from US Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Regular garden-variety troper.
Feb 1st 2019 at 4:25:21 PM

[up][up] I took care of dewicking those pages. All of the subpages should have no wicks to them once all of the remaining subpages are cut.

Important Trope Repair Shop thread under construction for four closely-related items.
GastonRabbit King of Blue Lions from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
King of Blue Lions
Feb 1st 2019 at 9:09:33 PM

Only one subpage remains, and I saw that the ghost wicks have been taken care of (not counting ones on YMMV subpages if there are any, since I haven't gone through those yet).

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 1st 2019 at 11:09:52 AM

"...the Linux philosophy is "laugh in the face of danger". Oops. Wrong one. "Do it yourself". That's it." —Linus Torvalds
Brainulator9 Regular garden-variety troper. from US Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Regular garden-variety troper.
Feb 2nd 2019 at 5:03:58 PM

Currently at less than a thousand wicks, three of which I will mention here:

Robbie Rotten being the person that saved Josuke when he was four years old. Explanation 

Important Trope Repair Shop thread under construction for four closely-related items.
GastonRabbit King of Blue Lions from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
King of Blue Lions
Feb 2nd 2019 at 8:04:19 PM

I removed Counterpart Comparison's listing from YMMV Redirects because it's no longer YMMV. Surprisingly Similar Characters is Just for Fun, not an Audience Reaction, so it doesn't belong on YMMV pages, or any work-related pages for that matter.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 2nd 2019 at 10:05:59 AM

"...the Linux philosophy is "laugh in the face of danger". Oops. Wrong one. "Do it yourself". That's it." —Linus Torvalds
WaterBlap Blapper of Water Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Blapper of Water
Feb 2nd 2019 at 10:17:50 PM

What are y'all doing with the wicks? There was a long entry in the MLPFIM Other YMMV sandbox, but it was cut outright. Shouldn't it be moved to the JFF page? These wicks shouldn't just be cut outright if the page wasn't cut; since it was merged, shouldn't the entries move with it? That's generally how merges work...

[witty saying]
GastonRabbit King of Blue Lions from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
King of Blue Lions
Feb 2nd 2019 at 10:48:16 PM

[up]The subpages were cut instead of moved (except for one, which just hasn't been reviewed by a mod yet), and we're doing the same with YMMV subpage wicks. When a complete cut was brought up on ATT, it was not contested by the staff.

Edit: Also, the crowner only mentions redirecting. It says nothing about moving examples or merging; the redirect was suggested as a way to catch searches and inbounds.

Edit: Cleaned up A, B, and C wicks, aside from single-example pages. I sometimes had to do a null edit when ghost wicks were left over.

Edit: Ditto for D wicks.

Edit: E wicks cleaned. I noticed ghost wicks show up when submitting takes me to a blank screen instead of back to the page, but without the submission failing to go through. Not sure if it's due to a recent site bug or a result of ISP-related problems on my end, but a null edit fixes it (any further edits with actual changes fail to get rid of ghost wicks).

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 3rd 2019 at 8:37:52 AM

"...the Linux philosophy is "laugh in the face of danger". Oops. Wrong one. "Do it yourself". That's it." —Linus Torvalds
Brainulator9 Regular garden-variety troper. from US Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Regular garden-variety troper.
Feb 3rd 2019 at 7:27:44 AM

[up][up][up] Alright, that makes sense. Thank you.

Important Trope Repair Shop thread under construction for four closely-related items.

Page Action: Counterpart Comparison
22nd Jan '19 11:30:20 PM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:

Total posts: 95
Top

How well does it match the trope?

Example of:

/

Media sources:

/

Report